Avanti West Coast cancellations

[D1537]

At least now the long saga of Avanti cancellations has reached the press & the whole sorry affair is in the public domain for all to see. What a complete & utter shambles !

Ironically on a day where there are not many cancellations at all, which makes you wonder why Avanti chose today to publish their fictional statement in the first place.

 

[Furrball]

It should be noted that Avanti statement on their website is for weekday disruption


Due to unofficial strike action by train drivers we are facing multiple short-notice cancellations on our network from tomorrow.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The BBC are now reporting that Avanti are not able to provide any evidence to back up their claim of unofficial industrial action.

Their reporting is indicating that Avanti don’t employ enough drivers, something that is now becoming a bit too obvious to everyone!

I can’t see this ending well for the Avanti management (or FG) unless they move to withdraw the accusation and admit they can’t run their service with the number of drivers they’ve got.

 

[Skiddaw]

Very typical of Avanti to blame their poor staff isn't it?

As I've said many times, I have absolutely no bone to pick with the vast majority of the Avanti staff & crew. I've generally found them to be committed, friendly, and genuinely doing all they can to help despite all the obstacles put in their way. I absolutely support the ongoing industrial action. Even more so after this.

 

[D1537]

It should be noted that Avanti statement on their website is for weekday disruption

Due to unofficial strike action by train drivers we are facing multiple short-notice cancellations on our network from tomorrow.

The words "from tomorrow" have been inserted since that statement was posted.

My quote in post #656 was copied and pasted from the Avanti site as it stood at the time. The Tweet hasn't been updated, and does not say "from tomorrow".

Perhaps they anticipated a journo noticing that there actually isn't much disruption today and calling them out on it.

 

[gazzaa2]

Ironically on a day where there are not many cancellations at all, which makes you wonder why Avanti chose today to publish their fictional statement in the first place.

Yeah. This weekend has been relatively normal service.

 

[D6130]

Those darn archaic rules where people working their days off is voluntary. What a clown

With a bit of luck, as a Sunak supporter, Shapps will be consigned to the back benches in about five weeks from now (not that I'm any way a fan of Truss, who unfortunately seems likely to be the next PM). Then some other poor sap will be offered the poisoned chalice of the DaFT to kick-start - or more likely to destroy - their ministerial career.

 

[peter166]

Am I being a little cynical in thinking that there are relatively few cancellations today because many drivers have opted today for rest day working knowing that they are striking next Saturday and that today will compensate for any loss of eatrnings next Saturday ?

 

[Watershed]

More on this from the BBC.

The union (ASLEF) is denying that there is unofficial strike action.

As I said earlier, it seems that managment and the unions are fighting it out in the media and online, with the passengers just an afterthought.

Avanti West Coast unofficial strike action claims rejected by union

Avanti West Coast warns of more cancellations but Aslef says that is due to low driver recruitment.

www.bbc.co.uk

It sounds like the statement is referring to ASLEF's withdrawal from the rest day working agreement.

This is not strike action, but the withdrawal from the agreement is nevertheless a form of industrial action.

Both sides are being highly disingenuous in the way they are characterising things.

Where Grant Shapps is right (a rarity, I know!) is that it shouldn't be down to the union whether individuals can work a rest day. That should be a decision for each person to make for themselves.

 

[D1537]

Am I being a little cynical in thinking that there are relatively few cancellations today because many drivers have opted today for rest day working knowing that they are striking next Saturday and that today will compensate for any loss of eatrnings next Saturday ?

Don't forget this is a greatly reduced timetable. There were few cancellations last Sunday either.

 

[Moonshot]

It sounds like the statement is referring to ASLEF's withdrawal from the rest day working agreement.

This is not strike action, but the withdrawal from the agreement is nevertheless a form of industrial action.

Both sides are being highly disingenuous in the way they are characterising things.

Where Grant Shapps is right (a rarity, I know!) is that it shouldn't be down to the union whether individuals can work a rest day. That should be a decision for each person to make for themselves.

In which case my own TOC has been unofficially on strike because the RDW agreement was withdrawn by the Union back in January

 

[gazzaa2]

The words "from tomorrow" have been inserted since that statement was posted.

My quote in post #656 was copied and pasted from the Avanti site as it stood at the time. The Tweet hasn't been updated, and does not say "from tomorrow".

Perhaps they anticipated a journo noticing that there actually isn't much disruption today and calling them out on it.

Shapps in a tweet states 'today'.

https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1553715911248564226

UNOFFICIAL STRIKES: Passengers using Avanti West services should expect disruption today. Archaic rules from 1919 mean working on rest days is voluntary. Unions now stopping drivers volunteering - causing misery for public & staff who won't get paid. We MUST modernise rail.

 

[SJN]

It sounds like the statement is referring to ASLEF's withdrawal from the rest day working agreement.

This is not strike action, but the withdrawal from the agreement is nevertheless a form of industrial action.

Both sides are being highly disingenuous in the way they are characterising things.

Where Grant Shapps is right (a rarity, I know!) is that it shouldn't be down to the union whether individuals can work a rest day. That should be a decision for each person to make for themselves.

They haven’t withdrawn from the rest day agreement. Drivers have decided themselves that they don’t want to volunteer to work. It is July and the schools have broken up. Lots of people away on holiday and not everybody wants to work all hours.

 

[Carlisle]

It sounds like the statement is referring to ASLEF's withdrawal from the rest day working agreement.

This is not strike action, but the withdrawal from the agreement is nevertheless a form of industrial action.

Both sides are being highly disingenuous in the way they are characterising things.

Where Grant Shapps is right (a rarity, I know!) is that it shouldn't be down to the union whether individuals can work a rest day. That should be a decision for each person to make for themselves.

Totally agree with that .I’ve been trying to point out similar for years albeit not as concisely

 

[SJN]

Well anyone at Avanti who was planning to do rest day working next week is probably thinking twice about it now.

 

[Moonshot]

They haven’t withdrawn from the rest day agreement. Drivers have decided themselves that they don’t want to volunteer to work. It is July and the schools have broken up. Lots of people away on holiday and not everybody wants to work all hours.

So let's get this absolutely straight...... Avanti drivers can work on there rest days if they want to. A rest day working agreement is in place. Drivers are choosing not to work them however. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[STINT47]

If drivers are not working as part of a sympathy strike surley this is illegal? Why aren't Avanti or the government taking action against the employees andunion.

 

[TheEdge]

If drivers are not working as part of a sympathy strike surley this is illegal? Why aren't Avanti or the government taking action against the employees andunion.

Not volunteering to work voluntary overtime on your days off is not striking.

 

[317 forever]

During the week, it may make sense to have fewer services than pre Covid, as demand during the week has not recovered. In the case of Avanti this could involve running two instead of three trains an hour to Birmingham and Manchester. Weekend travel from what I have understood is largely back to pre Covid levels, so on weekends it would make sense to restore the pre covid timetable. Doing this would both save the Treasury money while keeping passengers relatively satisfied.

I do admit however, given Avanti’s staffing issues are clearly at the weekends, having a more frequent weekend service than weekdays is probably little more than a pipe dream.

I also doubt that any TOC would arrange to have more rolling stock for weekend than weekday travel.

 

[Efini92]

If drivers are not working as part of a sympathy strike surley this is illegal? Why aren't Avanti or the government taking action against the employees andunion.

For what? Having their days off?

 

[SJN]

So let's get this absolutely straight...... Avanti drivers can work on there rest days if they want to. A rest day working agreement is in place. Drivers are choosing not to work them however. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I’m not disagreeing with you. That’s basically what I said.

 

[gazzaa2]

Shapps in a tweet states 'today'.

https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/1553715911248564226

ASLEF
@ASLEFunion

This is a lie. Our members are not taking any unofficial action, and we are not stopping anyone working. This rubbish puts our members at risk of abuse and assault.
One more time for the benefit of
@grantshapps
. Sunday forming part of the working week has been ASLEF policy for decades. If you want a reliable seven day a week service: Employ. Enough. Train. Drivers.

 

[Moonshot]

If drivers are not working as part of a sympathy strike surley this is illegal? Why aren't Avanti or the government taking action against the employees andunion.

Which part of " drivers not working their days off " do you not understand?

 

[whoosh]

It sounds like the statement is referring to ASLEF's withdrawal from the rest day working agreement.

This is not strike action, but the withdrawal from the agreement is nevertheless a form of industrial action.

Both sides are being highly disingenuous in the way they are characterising things.

Where Grant Shapps is right (a rarity, I know!) is that it shouldn't be down to the union whether individuals can work a rest day. That should be a decision for each person to make for themselves.

It is a decision they can make for themselves. They make the decision that Rest Day Working sanctioned by the union means that overtime shifts on days off are apportioned fairly rather than based on who's face fits or who says yes all the time, and so, with that in mind, they chose to abide by the union having a rest day work agreement as it makes it a better place to work.

 

[ScottGallagher]

The well has now been poisoned, people will work to rule like now more than ever before.

If Branson is looking at this he must be now glad Virgin are out of the rail business

 

[Rheoman]

Rest days and Sunday’s are 2 completely different things on Avanti.
Rest days which are from Monday to Saturday through the roster can be worked subject to conditions such as Hidden and are purely voluntary.
We have booked Sunday’s in our rosters which we are contracted to work unless we can find cover for them or it is at the beginning or end of rostered annual leave.
Very often the only reason we are off on a Sunday is because we have finished late on Saturday evening and our next booked turn of duty is early Monday morning.

 

[317 forever]

Sensible way from Euston to Manchester is probably LNR to Crewe and then Northern, avoids both. Not an option tomorrow though!

It was not sensible when I tried that upon cancellation of my EUS-MAN train on 4.6.22. I extended my delay from 40 to 65 minutes that way as a Northern train was cancelled and the TfW train heavily delayed.

My EUS-CRE was an Avanti Liverpool service.

 

[Carlisle]

So let's get this absolutely straight...... Avanti drivers can work on there rest days if they want to. A rest day working agreement is in place. Drivers are choosing not to work them however. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely, if that’s in fact the complete truth of it all.

 

[317 forever]

But there's always been an element (the usual suspects) who throw a sicky in any company. Not enough to bring the railways to a standstill before now though.

Obviously there's a lot more to it and Avanti can't just throw their staff under the bus. I don't know what the policy is there but usually in jobs you'll hit trigger warnings if you have so many sickness absences.

Avanti can't throw their staff under an Avanti train either, because there won't be any in service

 

[74A]

Not volunteering to work voluntary overtime on your days off is not striking.

No but it can be industrial action.