Avanti to Windermere

[pnepaul]

Now that Avanti have the IE 805 series, is there a possibilty of them going to Windermere. After all, it would only diesel power for the short journey from Oxenholme to Windermere and back. It might prove popular.

I am guessing the combination of no loop on the Windemere branch and pathing issues would not make it possible. However, it is fun to speculate lol

 

[Bevan Price]

Now that Avanti have the IE 805 series, is there a possibilty of them going to Windermere. After all, it would only diesel power for the short journey from Oxenholme to Windermere and back. It might prove popular.

I am guessing the combination of no loop on the Windemere branch and pathing issues would not make it possible. However, it is fun to speculate lol

Is Windermere platform long enough for 5 coach Class 805s ?
It is much shorter than it used to be in the "steam age" when it had loco-hauled trains.

 

[Peter0124]

Is Windermere platform long enough for 5 coach Class 805s ?
It is much shorter than it used to be in the "steam age" when it had loco-hauled trains.

They can fit 6-car 195s I'm pretty sure, atleast according to RTT. 23m carriages. Not sure if SDO is used though.

Realtime Trains | 1C70 0829 Manchester Airport to Windermere | 25/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 1C70 0829 departure from Manchester Airport to Windermere on 25/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[JonathanH]

Now that Avanti have the IE 805 series, is there a possibilty of them going to Windermere.

The number of 805 units is such that they are only intended for use on services to North Wales, together with workings that get them to and from Oxley depot.

In any case, there could potentially be a capacity issue with running 5-car 805s through to North West England instead of 9-car or 11-car 390s depending on the calling patterns. Running one Windermere service from London would need to balance with a gap in the Northern service on the Windermere branch.

 

[12LDA28C]

Is Windermere platform long enough for 5 coach Class 805s ?
It is much shorter than it used to be in the "steam age" when it had loco-hauled trains.

I think you could fit a 5-car 805 in the platform although it might be a tight squeeze.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I thought this was actually going to happen when Windermere was going to be electrified?

 

[dk1]

I thought this was actually going to happen when Windermere was going to be electrified?

I thought that was just to use EMUs from Manchester Airport.

 

[Helvellyn]

Possibly only feasible if you ran a 10-car to Lancaster that then split to serve Barrow and Windermere. Bit aside from pathing issues I doubt there is anywhere near enough through traffic to justify it, plus you'd need to curtail something else North of Oxenholne if you're not sending too many trains Preston-Lancaster-Oxenholme (remember you've Avanti to Euston and Birmingham plus TPE to Liverpool and Manchester all trying to serve the North of Preston market already).

 

[Whistler40145]

Does the line have sufficient footfall outside of the holiday season to warrant such a service?

 

[JonathanH]

Logically, there would be a "Preston slow" from London running to Blackpool, Barrow and Windermere on a three hour repeating cycle, with the London to Glasgow service losing stops south of Preston, and Northern services from Manchester Airport running to Barrow and Windermere in the hours when Avanti don't go there, but I can't really see year round demand justifying such a complicated operation.

Sending a train from London down a single track branchline doesn't provide much (any) scope for recovery. Northern allow for recovery by not sending Windermere services straight out and back from Manchester Airport to Windermere.

 

[A S Leib]

Does the line have sufficient footfall outside of the holiday season to warrant such a service?

20,000 journeys between Windermere and Euston per year. Penrith has 48,000 and Oxenholme 52,000. Presumably lots of those journeys are made by people going to / from Keswick or other stationless places who use one of those as it's currently most convenient.

 

[Whistler40145]

As I understand, Avanti have no plans to use 805/807s north of Preston and I very much doubt a 9 or 11 coach Pendolino would be suitable for several of the stations on the Windermere branch as they're not fitted with selective door operation

 

[takno]

20,000 journeys between Windermere and Euston per year. Penrith has 48,000 and Oxenholme 52,000. Presumably lots of those journeys are made by people going to / from Keswick or other stationless places who use one of those as it's currently most convenient.

As somebody who's usually trying to get to Windermere from the north, I'd settle for a nice hourly shuttle. Add in a passing loop so you could run half-hourly in the summer and it would be grand. Worsening the current when/if it turns up service by adding a far-flung Intercity service group into the mix doesn't strike me as a win.

 

[A S Leib]

As somebody who's usually trying to get to Windermere from the north, I'd settle for a nice hourly shuttle. Add in a passing loop so you could run half-hourly in the summer and it would be grand. Worsening the current when/if it turns up service by adding a far-flung Intercity service group into the mix doesn't strike me as a win.

Agreed. I think an hourly Windermere – Lancaster or Preston service and up to half-hourly to Oxenholme would be even better, but that still complicates things and I'm not sure if Lancaster / Preston has the capacity for that.

 

[Whistler40145]

Does the current service originate at Manchester Airport and then operate a Windermere to Oxenholme return shuttle, prior to operating back to Manchester Airport?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Does the current service originate at Manchester Airport and then operate a Windermere to Oxenholme return shuttle, prior to operating back to Manchester Airport?

Think there's four trains a day that do that, each way. (Fewer on Sundays). Majority of the remaining branch line service (broadly one per hour) is shuttles operating to/from Windermere and Oxenholme.

 

[JonathanH]

Does the current service originate at Manchester Airport and then operate a Windermere to Oxenholme return shuttle, prior to operating back to Manchester Airport?

Think there's four trains a day that do that, each way. (Fewer on Sundays). Majority of the remaining branch line service (broadly one per hour) is shuttles operating to/from Windermere and Oxenholme.

Seemed to me that the service on the Windermere branch is planned around shift times and optimum recovery. A train works through from Manchester Airport to Windermere then does two or three shuttles, then goes back to Manchester Airport, with the next through working picking up the same sort of pattern. In that way, if the train does arrive late from Manchester, it picks up a few minutes on each shuttle trip, and can be on time going back.

While it may seem better to do alternate Barrow and Windermere services from Manchester Airport as it once did, the current arrangement does seem more robust.

If Avanti went to Windermere, it would need to do something like that as well, which wouldn't really work.