Avanti Off-Peak Evening Query

[sk688]

Looking to travel from a station in the MK Stations Group to one in the Coventry Stations Group later this evening around 5/6pm, and all standard Journey Planners and the Forum's own ticketing website will sell this as an off-peak single, but the restriction code 9I on the ticket says it is not valid on trains departing Euston between 1501-1845 , so was wondering if I did travel on an off-peak single , would I face any hassle for doing so ?

 

[jfollows]

Milton Keynes restrictions for outbound services are

Not valid on trains timed to depart:

• Milton Keynes Central after 04:29 and before 09:51;(Restrictions do not apply on Fridays)

and they’ve been different from Euston’s for a long time.

 

[Watershed]

It's absolutely valid. There are no evening peak restrictions on a Milton Keynes to Coventry Off-Peak Single/Return routed "via Rugby". The evening peak restrictions under restriction code 9I would only apply if you boarded at Euston, which is why the electronic data restrictions are set up to allow you to use such a ticket from Milton Keynes in the evening peak. As @jfollows has quoted, the restrictions for Milton Keynes are more specifically defined as only applying in the morning peak.

The reason for this disparity in restrictions is that, under the terms of their agreement with the DfT, Avanti aren't allowed to impose evening peak restrictions on regulated Off-Peak tickets for journeys outside of the 'London area'. For the purposes of the WCML; that is defined as meaning stations between London and Watford Junction (inclusive) - hence Milton Keynes cannot have evening peak restrictions.

As above, this isn't a new situation or any sort of loophole; I'd expect barrier and on-train staff to be familiar with the difference between London and Milton Keynes tickets.

 

[Haywain]

the MK Stations Group to one in the Coventry Stations Group

Do either of these "stations groups" actually exist? I was under the impression that they are standalone stations for fares purposes (and, unrelatedly, routeing purposes). They may be in fares clusters with other stations but that's not the same thing.

 

[sk688]

Do either of these "stations groups" actually exist? I was under the impression that they are standalone stations for fares purposes (and, unrelatedly, routeing purposes). They may be in fares clusters with other stations but that's not the same thing.

Yea i think I might have meant fares clusters - the journey in question was Woburn to Canley , just out of interest what would the difference be between the two

Also thanks for the replies and clearing up the confusion, in any case no ticket check

 

[Watershed]

Yea i think I might have meant fares clusters - the journey in question was Woburn to Canley , just out of interest what would the difference be between the two

Birmingham Stations or London Terminals are examples of group stations. In other words, where your ticket is issued to a group of stations and you can choose to or from travel to any of them (that are on a permitted route). There's no Milton Keynes Stations or Coventry Stations group, hence @Haywain 's comment.

Clusters simply mean that the fares are the same from every station within a given origin cluster to every station in a given destination cluster. The fact that the price, route and restriction code is the same for each station in the cluster doesn't affect the validity. It doesn't mean that you can travel from Aspley Guise to Tile Hill on a Woburn Sands to Canley ticket.

TOCs can also override the fares for individual pairs of stations within a cluster-based flow. For example this is done by WMT to impose evening peak restrictions on Off-Peak Day Returns from Shrewsbury/Stafford/Rugby to/from Birmingham Stations, by changing the restriction code to DJ rather than JE as it is for the wider cluster.

Also thanks for the replies and clearing up the confusion, in any case no ticket check

Glad to hear it all went ok.

 

[Haywain]

I think I might have meant fares clusters - the journey in question was Woburn to Canley , just out of interest what would the difference be between the two

A fares cluster is really just for the convenience of the pricing managers and has no effect on how you can use a ticket. A station group for fares means that a ticket issued to one can be used to any station in that group, so a ticket to Manchester Piccadilly is also valid to Manchester Victoria, Oxford Road and Deansgate, and this would be shown on the ticket. A station group for the routeing guide is another thing again and is not necessarily the same as a fares group, and may affect how you can use a ticket issued to a specific station in that group. It's complicated but with a bit of luck someone might explain it better than me!