Avanti M.D. quits.

[yorksrob]

Perhaps, now that he is no longer employed in the rail industry, Mr Whittingham will reveal all about the true situation; Unless he hopes to land another highly-paid job elsewhere, or has signed a non-disclosure agreement ?

I wouldn't be surprised if he was incentivised to sign a non-disclosure agreement.

 

[Goldfish62]

But that's already happened under First hasn't it?
The First Class menu is nothing like as good as it was under Virgin, no evening meals, limited choice, unless it's improved again recently.

This is true, but if you want to go "Full GWR" then it's a trolley (if you're lucky) with tea, coffee, water and biscuits, and that's your lot!

 

[duncanp]

This is true, but if you want to go "Full GWR" then it's a trolley (if you're lucky) with tea, coffee, water and biscuits, and that's your lot!

I wouldn't mind that if they reduced the prices accordingly.

Come to think of it, in these cost conscious times perhaps Avanti should abolish traditional First Class and just have Standard Premium, where you get more spacious seats and a trolley where tea, coffee and biscuits are free, but things such as sandwiches and booze are available to purchase.

 

[ComUtoR]

Indeed, but it confirms what a lot of us have been saying all along: that this is a management problem and its solution will be a management solution, and getting rid of the manager in charge is the first step along this path.

Maybe.

The problem with continual management turnover is that it doesn't specifically bring change. What can happen is that a new Manager comes in and things tick along as usual. The underlying culture just floats along.

The MD quitting gives everyone a nice scapegoat to put the blame on. There needs to be fundamental change within the business to address the underlying issues.

 

[FNG]

A possible solution and one I personally like is to get it back under government ownership and have the East Coast and West Coast run by LNER and their management. Obviously the West Coast operation would need a different name, not sure how easy or feasible it would be either but it works for me in my little world

 

[WizCastro197]

Will there be anyone left to bid? Stagecoach’s rail business has practically been dismantled, Arriva is hardly in the DfT’s good books over Northern - Govia and Abellio can’t run everything!

Govia can't run anything and haven't been able to for the last 19 years... Mystery how they still have the contract and how they haven't yet hired professional apologisers yet seeing the immense amount of times they have to say it...

It's a good job Grant Shapps still thinks there are plenty of direct trains each hour between the two cities.

I am surprised he even knows what a train is let alone a direct one. (which he still doesn't know...)


But I guess First and Partnerships are now among the worst performing TOCs in this country? Is that safe to say? Probably with a slight exception of GWR but that to has its own problems.

 

[jfollows]

The MD quitting gives everyone a nice scapegoat to put the blame on. There needs to be fundamental change within the business to address the underlying issues.

I agree.
When a previous boss quit I told him that he would be blamed for things, he was a bit put out, but I said that this is the way of things and shouldn't really take it too personally. It's just convenient even if it's not true.
Same here I think - clearly the boss's boss at First Group is ultimately to blame, but if they see the error of their ways they can correct these and blame someone else if need be.
Getting a more fundamental "culture" change is harder. It has to be done meaningfully and believably and that's hard - my former organisation embarked on a "culture change" thing but it came to nothing, essentially because the existing rotten culture was seen as entrenched and words didn't make a difference. Also, nobody in senior management demonstrably changed their behaviour in any way.

 

[ScottGallagher]

It could still go OLR and the MD getting the boot might be the first phase of that. Any announcement of Avanti losing the contract would be left to after the new PM is sworn in and Secretary of State appointed to make it look like a new decisive idea. Let's face it they need the good publicity right now.

 

[Howardh]

A possible solution and one I personally like is to get it back under government ownership and have the East Coast and West Coast run by LNER and their management. Obviously the West Coast operation would need a different name, not sure how easy or feasible it would be either but it works for me in my little world

Very Interesting Railway Going Into North?

 

[Energy]

Andy Burnham was on R4 earlier demanding a recovery plan from Avanti, with his "last chance saloon" remarks about their retention of the contract.
It's difficult to see a fast resolution of this problem, unless enough drivers individually agree to suspend their non-industrial action for the new management.

He's threatening to ask the new prime minister to revoke Avanti's contract. Given that he's a Labour mayor and not Conservative, the threat isn't too big.

Short term Avanti need to fix their union relationships. Long term rest day working should be reduced when more staff are trained.

 

[Statto]

Maybe.

The problem with continual management turnover is that it doesn't specifically bring change. What can happen is that a new Manager comes in and things tick along as usual. The underlying culture just floats along.

The MD quitting gives everyone a nice scapegoat to put the blame on. There needs to be fundamental change within the business to address the underlying issues.

That may well be so, but AWC MD didn't help things by openly smearing staff with the lie of unofficial strikes, when staff were refusing to work on rest days, that made things irreparable.

As much as First, DfT are to blame, the MD had to go too

 

[Howardh]

He's threatening to ask the new prime minister to revoke Avanti's contract. Given that he's a Labour mayor and not Conservative, the threat isn't too big.

There are a lot of votes up here, many "lent" to the Tories to get that B-word through. Awful transport + the seeming inability to cross the Pennines quickly, excessive power bills etc etc won't go down well in '24.

Unfortunately very few will use the WCML so won't be affected by Avanti and the government's uselessness, but there will be something here that affects them and if they see a Labour mayor improving the buses, they may be more minded to vote Labour again, and possibly get some Tory voters on board too.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

oh the companies are challenged very hard about their forward plans.
for understandable reasons, they don’t publish them, of course.

OK they would be hostage to fortune if they gave a specific date but its not acceptable that AWC/DfT just blame it on industrial relations and indicate that is the solution when clearly its not anymore than a short term fix.

So your aware of AWCs driver training pipeline and good PR would say AWC should be telling its customers that they have been addressing the problem of driver numbers but its not a quick fix. Jenny Gilruth (MSP responsible for Scottish Transport) may have gone out on a limb but she gave the context to the driver issues at ScotRail and was bold enough to publish the outcome they expected from there training programme and how it would help improve service levels at various points as the drivers got signed off. AWC should do the same and its good to see Andy Burnham calling for it (according to #53 above).

 

[Agent_Squash]

Govia can't run anything and haven't been able to for the last 19 years... Mystery how they still have the contract and how they haven't yet hired professional apologisers yet seeing the immense amount of times they have to say it...

Not quite true though. They’ve had their moments, but Govia really turned Southern round from the mess left by Connex.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Not quite true though. They’ve had their moments, but Govia really turned Southern round from the mess left by Connex.

Certainly south of the river other than their stupidity over Tlk at May 2018 the service was good until covid struck. Im not so so sure my colleagues who use GN would be as generous.

 

[dk1]

Emergency timetable is going well today (joke).

 

[172101]

21 cancellations already in for today, and whats the betting there will be more!
And this is on a reduced timetable.

 

[Energy]

Not quite true though. They’ve had their moments, but Govia really turned Southern round from the mess left by Connex.

London Midland was always pretty good

 

[Bletchleyite]

London Midland was always pretty good

They had their moments too, such as running full and standing 4 car trains on Saturdays and Sundays to save money on getting 350/2s out to play.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Semantics.

If they don't have enough "fully competant" drivers, then they don't have enough drivers.

How long does it take to achieve full competency?

 

[Bald Rick]

How long does it take to achieve full competency?

How long is a piece of string Paul?

It depends what competencies need to be gained / regained / retained. It could be anywhere from a few days to 18 months.

 

[baz962]

How long does it take to achieve full competency?

All depends on the toc and how much route and traction. A good baseline is an already qualified driver that's gone over would be 3-6 months. A trainee and again depends on the toc would be 10-18 months. Also depends on the availability of driver instructors to get the driving hours in.

 

[43096]

21 cancellations already in for today, and whats the betting there will be more!
And this is on a reduced timetable.

Perhaps that is what he was really fired for? Having to implement an emergency timetable is on thing, but implementing an emergency timetable and still not being able to deliver it reliably is just gross incompetence. In other words, a sacking offence.

 

[ComUtoR]

I find it very disengenuos when "competency" is used as spin.

I also don't agree that because you have "Trainee Drivers" that they should be included in any kind of count towards Driver numbers.

They don't form part of the establishment level. They are potential Drivers who are there to replace gaps in the roster. Or any natural wastage.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The piece in Railway Gazette on the situation at Avanti is a bit more specific about the management changes.
The suggestion is that the current Avanti ERMA, which expires on October 16, will be extended to December/March while the service recovers, rather than go to the anticipated long-term direct award.
It also appears OLR s not so far involved in these changes.

Avanti West Coast Managing Director to leave

UK: Phil Whittingham is to step down as Managing Director of Avanti West Coast with effect from September 15 ‘in order to pursue other executive leadership opportunities’, the West Coast Main Line inter-city passenger operator’s parent company First Trenitalia announced on September 2...

www.railwaygazette.com

For the immediate future, Steve Montgomery will provide ‘executive leadership support’ to Avanti West Coast, with briefings to staff indicating that he will be assisted by other members of FirstGroup’s executive team, including Managing Director for Non-Franchised Businesses Andy Mellors and First Rail Director of Consultancy, Planning & Performance Rebecca Holding.

Staff have also been told that Avanti’s Operations & Safety Director Gus Dunster is shortly to retire, and his position will be taken by Barry Milsom who is currently Train Service Delivery & Performance Director at GWR.

 

[Tractor2018]

Re drivers in training. People, at all levels (media, forum members, public, and AWC management), are making the incorrect presumption that the drivers in training will filter through over an X amount of time. What none of them have considered is these drivers need access to the cab of a train with the already resourced driver in the seat - whilst the existing drivers are in dispute..........

 

[70014IronDuke]

.... Getting a more fundamental "culture" change is harder. It has to be done meaningfully and believably and that's hard - my former organisation embarked on a "culture change" thing but it came to nothing, essentially because the existing rotten culture was seen as entrenched and words didn't make a difference. Also, nobody in senior management demonstrably changed their behaviour in any way.

Says it all, really. Useless announcing any sort of Culture Change if it does not change at the top. Just adds to the negativity even more.

 

[Unstoppable]

In my opinion, First should be disbarred from holding or sharing any further rail contracts.

Revoke them of everything they have. They have destroyed both Rail and Bus travel

 

[Dai Corner]

Re drivers in training. People, at all levels (media, forum members, public, and AWC management), are making the incorrect presumption that the drivers in training will filter through over an X amount of time. What none of them have considered is these drivers need access to the cab of a train with the already resourced driver in the seat - whilst the existing drivers are in dispute..........

Are driving instructors in dispute? (genuine question - maybe they're management grades on different contracts to drivers).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Given Shapps will be out of the door before he goes doesn't seem much will change.

Is that based upon inside knowledge? Transport seems to be more a punishment Ministry in Conservative thinking rather that a top-ranking Ministry, ideal for people like Grayling can be placed in to keep him out of the way of more promotion-based Ministries.