Avanti M.D. quits.

[Rescars]

But just as today's LNER doesn't remotely replicate the old company, renaming Avanti as LMS wouldn't replicate its predecessor either.
For a start there is no "M" context (Midland). In fact the MML has migrated to NR's Eastern Region.
ICWC/Avanti is closest in route and service offering to the pre-grouping LNWR (with the North Staffs and part of the Caledonian thrown in).

Perhaps it needs a new Sir Richard Moon at the helm.

 

[D6130]

Govia and Abellio can’t run everything!

I thought that Abellio had just announced that they are pulling-out of British rail operations?

It's a good job Grant Shapps still thinks there are plenty of direct trains each hour between the two cities.

I wonder if he will now also resign as a result of his share in propogating the 'unofficial industrial action' lies?.....fat chance!

It's First\Trenialia who are new on the scene and the post covid ERMA contract with DfT.

As I have said before, I wonder whether - like Abellio - Trenitalia will now pull-out of British rail operations now that they've (metaphorically) had their fingers burned?

 

[Bald Rick]

Semantics.

If they don't have enough "fully competant" drivers, then they don't have enough drivers.

I’m sorry but that’s not right.

there are enough drivers, but many of those drivers need some training / route refreshing.

Avanti do not need more drivers. At least not yet.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Avanti West Coast boss fired after timetable failures

Intercity train operator provoked fury last month after slashing services between London and Manchester

www.theguardian.com

One of Britain’s major intercity train operators, Avanti West Coast, has parted company with its boss a month after the company admitted it was unable to run its timetabled services.​

Avanti announced that its managing director, Phil Whittingham, had decided to step down, with effect from 15 September, the date when the next in a series of strikes will further afflict its operations.

It is understood that the owners are looking at a range of options and that other senior operational staff are also understood to be in the line of fire.

Avanti, a joint venture between FirstGroup and Trenitalia, slashed its schedules last month, leaving only one train an hour instead of three running between London and Manchester. The move was billed by Avanti as a way of running a more predictable service after widespread delays and cancellations but provoked fury, with Labour and the mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham, calling for it to be stripped of its contract.


Whittingham inflamed industrial relations at the firm by blaming the problems on “unofficial strike action” by drivers – a claim denounced as an outright lie by the Aslef union.

Aslef welcomed news of the changes. The general secretary, Mick Whelan, said: “The managing director of Avanti West Coast has gone because he lied about unofficial industrial action. We look forward to working with the new MD. There is now an opportunity for passengers and staff to move into a better future.”

Whittingham, who transferred to Avanti as managing director from Virgin when the firm took over the west coast mainline operation from Richard Branson’s company, earned £273,000 in the role, and has spent more than 23 years in various roles on the railway.

Steve Montgomery, FirstGroup’s overall rail managing director, who is also leading the industry in negotiations over pay in the rail dispute, will step in to “provide executive leadership support” for Avanti.

Montgomery said Whittingham had left Avanti “with the team ready for the challenges in delivering the future service requirements”.

Whittingham did not respond to requests for comment.

The action comes after increasing public anger at the service, with Avanti garnering more complaints than any other train operator in the past two years, even before the recent decline. Avanti employs several hundred drivers but relies on their goodwill to work overtime to run the full schedules.

The transport secretary, Grant Shapps, had endorsed Whittingham’s view that “unofficial strike action” – the refusal of drivers to volunteer for additional shifts – was to blame for the poor service.

Labour’s shadow transport secretary, Louise Haigh, said Avanti had caused travel misery for millions and Shapps had failed to hold them to account. She added: “If the government had any interest in doing their job, they would finally stand up for passengers, claw-back taxpayers’ money for services that haven’t run, strip the operator of the contract and put in place an urgent plan to restore the timetable.”

The firm paid out £11m in dividends last year to its shareholders, who are 70% FirstGroup and 30% the Italian state-owned operator Trenitalia.

Unions with members working for Avanti have all voted overwhelmingly for strikes and the service will be halted again in two weeks’ time when drivers walk out for 24 hours on 15 September, as part of wider industrial action. RMT train staff will also walk out as part of the national dispute.

A third union, the TSSA, on Friday called more strikes specifically at Avanti, underlining the problems the operator faces. The union’s station staff members will walk out alongside the RMT on 15 and 17 September.

At least he has fallen on his sword although I suspect told to resign or be pushed after he stirred up the hornets nest over the drivers actions which for someone of his experience seems a bizarre thing to say. Given Shapps will be out of the door before he goes doesn't seem much will change but as @Bald Rick informs us they have a pipeline of drivers in training so in due course this will resolve itself. However, on the AWC website they make no mention that they have a solution even if it will take time to implement just blaming the whole situation on drivers saying

the majority of drivers making themselves unavailable for overtime in a co-ordinated fashion, and at short notice

and the reduced timetable applies UFN.

then this will presumably sort itself out in due course and I wish the companies were challenged to give some forward looking statement about what theya re doing to resolve this and likely timeline. Their website says its UFN with no indication of a timeline.

 

[Agent_Squash]

I thought that Abellio had just announced that they are pulling-out of British rail operations?

Should’ve said the new outfit for Abellio - they’re still around, just not owned by NS!

 

[185]

He hasn't quit, he's on unofficial strike forever.

 

[yorksrob]

I’m sorry but that’s not right.

there are enough drivers, but many of those drivers need some training / route refreshing.

Avanti do not need more drivers. At least not yet.

I beg to differ.

They don't have enough to run the service, otherwise they would be running the service.

 

[507020]

I beg to differ.

They don't have enough to run the service, otherwise they would be running the service.

I’m glad I’m correct that they simply do not employ enough drivers to be able to run the service.

They may well employ some who are not able to run the service until the completion of training, but new recruits equally need that same training, so at present they do not employ enough drivers.

 

[XAM2175]

Fundamentally, unless they're allowed to employ enough drivers, I can't see things improving.

They have more than enough drivers. What they don’t have is enough fully competent drivers.

If they don't have enough "fully competant" drivers, then they don't have enough drivers.

Rob, please explain how Avanti employing more drivers who don't sign Avanti's routes and traction will help Avanti with their problem of not having a sufficient number of drivers who sign their routes and traction.

 

[yorksrob]

Rob, please explain how Avanti employing more drivers who don't sign Avanti's routes and traction will help Avanti with their problem of not having a sufficient number of drivers who sign their routes and traction.

@XAM2175

If you don't think there's a problem with Avanti's staffing, then please explain why everything is to Crap for the past year.

 

[XAM2175]

If you don't think there's a problem with Avanti's staffing, then please explain why everything is to Crap for the past year.

Where did I say that? I'm asking you how you think hiring more drivers who need to be trained to run the service will help with the immediate problem of not having enough drivers trained to run the service.

If you want to discuss actually-useful ways of getting the service back to something approaching 'normality', on the other hand, I'd suggest that fixing the toxic industrial relations problem they've created with their already-trained drivers would be the fastest route.

This isn't new information, by the way - it's come up a number of times in all the previous threads in which you also participated.

 

[Energy]

I'd suggest that fixing the toxic industrial relations problem they've created with their already-trained drivers would be the fastest route.

Agreed, the relationship wasn't going to be fixed until the MD left... hopefully it will improve.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Sep 2022 ==

Interesting, thanks. I thought he was ex-Virgin, I guess not! Hopefully someone competent can be put in place to sort out the mess, however much I might love the new seats!

He's been VTWC for ages, since 1999. Admittedly as Finance Director until 2015.

 

[Bletchleyite]

He's been VTWC for ages, since 1999. Admittedly as Finance Director until 2015.

That may explain things - if his background is finance, he is quite possibly one of those people who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

 

[yorksrob]

Where did I say that? I'm asking you how you think hiring more drivers who need to be trained to run the service will help with the immediate problem of not having enough drivers trained to run the service.

If you want to discuss actually-useful ways of getting the service back to something approaching 'normality', on the other hand, I'd suggest that fixing the toxic industrial relations problem they've created with their already-trained drivers would be the fastest route.

This isn't new information, by the way - it's come up a number of times in all the previous threads in which you also participated.

Ah, that's nice.

I've suggested that actually having enough drivers to run the service would be a good idea, you're so determined to pick a fight at all costs.

This would be a laugh if it weren't so serious. You people in the industry can't even defend yourselves to people who agree with the railway, you'll be toast against the section of the public who couldn't give a toss about railways.

Turkeys voting for Christmas, the lot of you.

 

[Energy]

That may explain things - if his background is finance, he is quite possibly one of those people who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

I suspect penny pinching might have helped to start this...

 

[fgwrich]

I can believe that - latter day VT wasn't that good either, it was very much "holding over". What held it together was it being fairly good already at that point and a bit of Virgin "culture" which went as they went.

I wonder would Hopwood fancy a challenge? Though you'd need to be careful how you replaced him on GWR.

We shall see. Hopwood didn't exactly bring the magic back to SWR, but did temporary stop the rot (and the very very real threat of OLR) until Ms Mann came in. GWR Has felt somewhat stagnated for a while with Hopwood in charge now, though the constant do as your told / more of the same from the constant rolling franchise extensions have bought most of that it. Meanwhile, GWR seemed to cope very well, and from various staff conversations rather enjoyed the change, with Matthew Galton in charge (who now has since gone on to head TPE from "First Special Projects").

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect penny pinching might have helped to start this...

Other than the more serious issue of false allegations regarding industrial action, there's little that will hack staff off more at a company for very small gain than penny pinching.

 

[XAM2175]

I've suggested that actually having enough drivers to run the service would be a good idea, you're so determined to pick a fight at all costs.

What you actually said was "Fundamentally, unless they're allowed to employ enough drivers, I can't see things improving."

The correction that @Bald Rick and I are trying to put to you is that they are already allowed to employ enough drivers. The difficulty lies in getting them trained up and signed off as full productive, and they are in a position now where the delays and hold-ups in this process can no longer be concealed by having their already-productive drivers volunteer for rest-day working.

This is not a question of opinions or semantics, as you described it previously, but rather a completely factual description of the reason Avanti aren't currently able to staff their services as normal. I would expect a person who describes himself as "agreeing with the railway" would be interested in being factually correct, because that's traditionally the point from which productive discussion commences.

Oh, while we're on that topic; you'll need to take the persecution complex elsewhere because I don't actually work in the railway industry. Sorry to disappoint you

 

[Horizon22]

I’m sorry but that’s not right.

there are enough drivers, but many of those drivers need some training / route refreshing.

Avanti do not need more drivers. At least not yet.

Of course this is an issue in itself, and ultimately more responsibility of the TOC; not enough DIs (which could be morale or pay related), delays in the training regime (which might to some degree be Covid related), slow recruitment practices & staff lifecycle management which has struggled to ensure a steady, continuous flow of trainees. There’s the other issue of general morale amongst drivers who are competent which is all under the IR umbrella. Avanti seem to have been on a bit of a downward cycle here, so perhaps a new MD will give the chance to reset that culture.

Once you get into the minutiae fewer people in DfT understand it all, so some TOCs can do better due to better management.

 

[Energy]

Other than the more serious issue of false allegations regarding industrial action, there's little that will hack staff off more at a company for very small gain than penny pinching.

The false allegations didn't start it but they did turn it from bad to irreparable.

 

[Bald Rick]

then this will presumably sort itself out in due course and I wish the companies were challenged to give some forward looking statement about what theya re doing to resolve this and likely timeline.

oh the companies are challenged very hard about their forward plans.
for understandable reasons, they don’t publish them, of course.

 

[Some guy]

There’s still most likely going to be no change until next month when the DFT stop stepping in for Avanti. Maybe they sort everything out and get the staff on their side and make them feel valued for the December timetable otherwise west coast travel is going to be a shambles for years to come

 

[yorksrob]

Where did I say that? I'm asking you how you think hiring more drivers who need to be trained to run the service will help with the immediate problem of not having enough drivers trained to run the service.

If you want to discuss actually-useful ways of getting the service back to something approaching 'normality', on the other hand, I'd suggest that fixing the toxic industrial relations problem they've created with their already-trained drivers would be the fastest route.

This isn't new information, by the way - it's come up a number of times in all the previous threads in which you also participated.

I never said it would fix the problem immediately.

Once the immediate situation settles down they'll still be relying on drivers working on their days off. Drivers who don't need to, and frankly why would they want to.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Andy Burnham was on R4 earlier demanding a recovery plan from Avanti, with his "last chance saloon" remarks about their retention of the contract.
It's difficult to see a fast resolution of this problem, unless enough drivers individually agree to suspend their non-industrial action for the new management.

 

[Goldfish62]

So the MD takes over the company, completely messes it up, blames everyone else, then leaves when it all goes wrong. Classic “seagull manager”………

I like that term.

 

[jfollows]

I never said it would fix the problem immediately.

Once the immediate situation settles down they'll still be relying on drivers working on their days off. Drivers who don't need to, and frankly why would they want to.

Indeed, but it confirms what a lot of us have been saying all along: that this is a management problem and its solution will be a management solution, and getting rid of the manager in charge is the first step along this path.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed, but it confirms what a lot of us have been saying all along: that this is a management problem and its solution will be a management solution, and getting rid of the manager in charge is the first step along this path.

Oh yes, I don't disagree with that for one minute. I'm always thinking "who's sitting behind the manager, pulling the strings".

 

[Goldfish62]

We shall see. Hopwood didn't exactly bring the magic back to SWR, but did temporary stop the rot (and the very very real threat of OLR) until Ms Mann came in. GWR Has felt somewhat stagnated for a while with Hopwood in charge now, though the constant do as your told / more of the same from the constant rolling franchise extensions have bought most of that it. Meanwhile, GWR seemed to cope very well, and from various staff conversations rather enjoyed the change, with Matthew Galton in charge (who now has since gone on to head TPE from "First Special Projects").

Hopwood isn't exactly Mr Dynamic, but I do think he did a pretty effective job at SWR. By all accounts it was previously an industrial relations and performance basket case due to the havoc wrought by Mellors and it's now one of those OK middle of the road operations (at least from my perspective as a passenger).

If he does go to AWC stand by for a downgrade in catering though! Look at the state of it on GWR, plus one of the negative things he did on SWR was abolish the last remnants of catering.

 

[Falcon1200]

I'm always thinking "who's sitting behind the manager, pulling the strings".

Perhaps, now that he is no longer employed in the rail industry, Mr Whittingham will reveal all about the true situation; Unless he hopes to land another highly-paid job elsewhere, or has signed a non-disclosure agreement ?

 

[jfollows]

If he does go to AWC stand by for a downgrade in catering though! Look at the state of it on GWR, plus one of the negative things he did on SWR was abolish catering.

But that's already happened under First hasn't it?
The First Class menu is nothing like as good as it was under Virgin, no evening meals, limited choice, unless it's improved again recently.