Avanti - Invalid Split tickets

[aa620]

Hi everyone

I was going to make a complaint direct to Avanti but then thought better of it.

I recently bought split tickets for a return journey from London Euston to Rugby, with Milton Keynes Central (MKC) being the split point. As I used a train app to purchase the tickets, which listed MKC as a calling point, I genuinely thought my tickets were valid. However, I later found out that MKC was only a "pick up point". I had also caught the same train the day before, where my mobile ticket was scanned by an Avanti staff member, and I was permitted to board the train with no problems.

Long story short: on the train, the Train Manager said that my split tickets were not valid and that I needed to pay for a new ticket. In my stubborness, I refused to pay for a new ticket and refused to give my personal details. She then proceeded to grab my bag to try to eject me from the train, which I resisted. She also recorded me with the little device around her neck, and threatened to call the British Transport Police. The police did not arrive, and I was allowed to complete my journey.

The experience has shaken me up a bit and I am feeling somewhat paranoid as she recorded me with the small device. I feel that making a complaint is ill-advised as I was technically in the wrong (even if it was an honest mistake) and it would allow them to know my personal details to take further action against me.

I welcome people's thoughts/advice on this.

Thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi everyone

I was going to make a complaint direct to Avanti but then thought better of it.

I recently bought split tickets for a return journey from London Euston to Rugby, with Milton Keynes Central (MKC) being the split point. As I used a train app to purchase the tickets, which listed MKC as a calling point, I genuinely thought my tickets were valid. However, I later found out that MKC was only a "pick up point". I had also caught the same train the day before, where my mobile ticket was scanned by an Avanti staff member, and I was permitted to board the train with no problems.

Long story short: on the train, the Train Manager said that my split tickets were not valid and that I needed to pay for a new ticket. In my stubborness, I refused to pay for a new ticket and refused to give my personal details. She then proceeded to grab my bag to try to eject me from the train, which I resisted. She also recorded me the little device around her neck, and threatened to call the British Transport Police. The police did not arrive, and I was allowed to complete my journey.

The experience has shaken me up a bit and I am feeling somewhat paranoid as she recorded me with the small device. I feel that making a complaint is ill-advised as I was technically in the wrong (even if it was an honest mistake) and it would allow them to know my personal derails and potentially take further action against me.

I welcome people's thoughts/advice on this.

Thank you

Welcome. You will get good advice here but I would say definitely do not make a complaint.

It’s actually an offence to refuse to give you name and address so even if the ticket was valid you’ve still committed a railway offence.

It will be interesting to read experts views on how split tickets relate to those few places where set down or pick up only calls are made, but even if this is valid with the ticket your other actions mean it’s not wise to draw attention to yourself. In my view.

 

[yorkie]

Hi everyone

I was going to make a complaint direct to Avanti but then thought better of it.

I recently bought split tickets for a return journey from London Euston to Rugby, with Milton Keynes Central (MKC) being the split point. As I used a train app to purchase the tickets, which listed MKC as a calling point, I genuinely thought my tickets were valid. However, I later found out that MKC was only a "pick up point". I had also caught the same train the day before, where my mobile ticket was scanned by an Avanti staff member, and I was permitted to board the train with no problems.

Long story short: on the train, the Train Manager said that my split tickets were not valid and that I needed to pay for a new ticket. In my stubborness, I refused to pay for a new ticket and refused to give my personal details. She then proceeded to grab my bag to try to eject me from the train, which I resisted. She also recorded me the little device around her neck, and threatened to call the British Transport Police. The police did not arrive, and I was allowed to complete my journey.

The experience has shaken me up a bit and I am feeling somewhat paranoid as she recorded me with the small device. I feel that making a complaint is ill-advised as I was technically in the wrong (even if it was an honest mistake) and it would allow them to know my personal derails and potentially take further action against me.

I welcome people's thoughts/advice on this.

Thank you

If you had an itinerary showing the service you caught, you were entitled to travel. Any dispute is an internal one between the relevant companies.

Where did you buy the tickets? Were you following the itinerary exactly?

Given what you've said, I believe Avanti could be in big trouble. I know of a TOC who had to pay hundreds of pounds for removing a passenger's bag.

Please let us know more details. Did you do anything that could be considered wrong? If you followed the itinerary given and didn't use any inappropriate language, then Avanti could indeed be in big trouble for this, if you choose to pursue it.

Which train did you catch? I believe Avanti have made some trains pick up only for the purpose of denying split ticketing; our website does split ticketing but will not issue itineraries with splits at such locations. However, perhaps other apps might do?

If you were not following the itinerary, then Avanti can ask you to pay, but they should not be grabbing your belongings (however some of their staff have been known to behave inappropriately, so it does not surprise me).

I am not convinced many BTP officers would be remotely interested in something as petty as a case of someone splitting at a pick-up only location, however there are no doubt one or two exceptions. So I am not surprised the police didn't attend.

Whether or not you should complain depends very much firstly on whether you were following the itinerary provided, and secondly on how you behaved and if there is any more to it than stated here.

 

[John R]

Welcome. You will get good advice here but I would say definitely do not make a complaint.

It’s actually an offence to refuse to give you name and address so even if the ticket was valid you’ve still committed a railway offence.

It will be interesting to read experts views on how split tickets relate to those few places where set down or pick up only calls are made, but even if this is valid with the ticket your other actions mean it’s not wise to draw attention to yourself. In my view.

I can’t immediately link to it, but there is a specific section in the NRCoT which is very clear that if a train calls to set down only or pick up only then splitting tickets at that point is invalid.

I would imagine having a specific itinerary with that split would trump that condition, but in general terms it’s clear that you can’t split at such a point.

 

[methecooldude]

I can’t immediately link to it, but there is a specific section in the NRCoT which is very clear that if a train calls to set down only or pick up only then splitting tickets at that point is invalid.

I would imagine having a specific itinerary with that split would trump that condition, but in general terms it’s clear that you can’t split at such a point.

It's under 14.4 in the blue box:

INFORMATION: In order to ‘split’ a journey with two or more Tickets under Condition 14.2 the services you use must be scheduled to stop at a station to allow passengers to alight and/or board that service, as permitted by the terms & conditions of the Ticket held. There is no requirement for you to alight and re-board the same service.
If a combination of Tickets is ‘split’ at a station but that station Call is defined as for “pick-up only” in the National Rail Timetable and in journey planners, then the Ticket held to that station is not valid; likewise, if that station call is defined as for “set-down only” in the National Rail Timetable and in journey planners, then the Ticket held from that station is not valid.

 

[furlong]

It's under 14.4 in the blue box:

But also "Please note that these panels ... do not form part of a Train Company’s contract with you." (Though we did see one case where a train company attempted to argue on the basis that the content of an information box was enforceable!)

This situation is still probably very arguable because it is nowhere in the current conditions: an alternative interpretation is that set down / pick up timetable annotations have no relevance for ticketing purposes because they are not currently incorporated into the contract, and as in these circumstances you are remaining on the train and neither leaving nor joining it matters not at all anyway.

If they truly meant to implement something like this, it should have been specified in the contract itself.

 

[Egg Centric]

Long story short: on the train, the Train Manager said that my split tickets were not valid and that I needed to pay for a new ticket. In my stubborness, I refused to pay for a new ticket and refused to give my personal details.

Some questions that will help others to answer more fully (although I think your best bet is do nothing and hope they don't get in touch atm)

Did this happen north or south of MK? What were the precise tickets held? Where were they bought from? Did you buy them or did someone buy them for you (maybe don't answer that one)? What service was it? Was the member of staff asking you to buy London-Rugby or London-Milton Keynes or something else?

 

[fandroid]

My comment adds nothing to advice to the OP. I agree that they should not complain to Avanti.

My understanding is that the usual purpose of set down/pick up only restrictions is to avoid overcrowding on a shortish segment of a long journey. Waterloo - Clapham Junction is a very common example for journeys on SWR.

The holder of split tickets isn't violating that requirement.

If Avanti have invented another anti-passenger use of that restriction then let them justify it publicly.

 

[John Palmer]

For clarity, Condition 14.2 in the current edition of NRCoT is in terms as follows:

Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from one Ticket to another.

Note that the word "Call" appears in exactly that form, with capitalised "C". That draws attention to the fact that the word is defined in Appendix B, as follows:

"Call" means a scheduled stop of a train service at a station that allows passengers to alight as well as board that train service at that station, as defined in the National Rail Timetable;

That means that where a service calls at a station to permit boarding only, that station will not be one at which the change from one ticket to another can be made. However, if an accredited ticket retailer sells a combination of tickets for an itinerary contravening Condition 14.2's ticket changeover requirements, those requirements must be deemed to have been overridden as regards that particular itinerary. So the question of whether the OP can demonstrate adherence to the retailer's itinerary is likely to be critical.

As @furlong rightly notes, the information panels do not form part of the travel contract. They are supposed to "help you understand the meaning of certain Conditions", but in this case they tend to obfuscate the unambiguous meaning of the Condition in question. Use of the word 'or' in the first part of the relevant information panel misleadingly suggests that a station will be a valid split point at which the change from one ticket to another can take place, provided the call there is made so that passengers may either alight from or board the service concerned. A good illustration of the dangers of such 'explanatory' panels.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi everyone

I was going to make a complaint direct to Avanti but then thought better of it.

I recently bought split tickets for a return journey from London Euston to Rugby, with Milton Keynes Central (MKC) being the split point. As I used a train app to purchase the tickets, which listed MKC as a calling point, I genuinely thought my tickets were valid. However, I later found out that MKC was only a "pick up point". I had also caught the same train the day before, where my mobile ticket was scanned by an Avanti staff member, and I was permitted to board the train with no problems.

Long story short: on the train, the Train Manager said that my split tickets were not valid and that I needed to pay for a new ticket. In my stubborness, I refused to pay for a new ticket and refused to give my personal details. She then proceeded to grab my bag to try to eject me from the train, which I resisted. She also recorded me the little device around her neck, and threatened to call the British Transport Police. The police did not arrive, and I was allowed to complete my journey.

The experience has shaken me up a bit and I am feeling somewhat paranoid as she recorded me with the small device. I feel that making a complaint is ill-advised as I was technically in the wrong (even if it was an honest mistake) and it would allow them to know my personal derails and potentially take further action against me.

I welcome people's thoughts/advice on this.

Thank you

Did your ticket that you presented get scanned? If so I assume it’s possible they could still trace you even if you refused to verbally give your details to staff.

The evidence of that presumably being on the bodywork video which I’d guess was switched on when you became ‘uncooperative’ in the staff members opinion.

Prospect of that presumably depends on staff member deciding to complete a post incident report or just deciding not to bother.

Given others views on the ticket validity I suspect it might help to know more details as asked above, tho if these threads are observed by train company there’s some argument in not posting those details here unless you are actually contacted by Avanti in coming weeks.

If they haven’t track you by the scan on your ticket check your e mail and spam regularly over coming weeks and months.

 

[John R]

For clarity, Condition 14.2 in the current edition of NRCoT is in terms as follows:

Unless Condition 14.1 applies, you may use a combination of two or more Tickets to make a journey provided that the train services you use Call at the station(s) where you change from one Ticket to another.

Note that the word "Call" appears in exactly that form, with capitalised "C". That draws attention to the fact that the word is defined in Appendix B, as follows:

"Call" means a scheduled stop of a train service at a station that allows passengers to alight as well as board that train service at that station, as defined in the National Rail Timetable;

That means that where a service calls at a station to permit boarding only, that station will not be one at which the change from one ticket to another can be made. However, if an accredited ticket retailer sells a combination of tickets for an itinerary contravening Condition 14.2's ticket changeover requirements, those requirements must be deemed to have been overridden as regards that particular itinerary. So the question of whether the OP can demonstrate adherence to the retailer's itinerary is likely to be critical.

As @furlong rightly notes, the information panels do not form part of the travel contract. They are supposed to "help you understand the meaning of certain Conditions", but in this case they tend to obfuscate the unambiguous meaning of the Condition in question. Use of the word 'or' in the first part of the relevant information panel misleadingly suggests that a station will be a valid split point at which the change from one ticket to another can take place, provided the call there is made so that passengers may either alight from or board the service concerned. A good illustration of the dangers of such 'explanatory' panels.

I was about to make exactly the same point regarding Condition 14.2, except that I'm not sure I agree with the final paragraph. The final sentence in the explanatory panel makes it very clear that the split ticket approach at a set down/pick up only station doesn't work.

If a combination of Tickets is ‘split’ at a station but that station Call is defined as for “pick-up only” in the National Rail Timetable and in journey planners, then the Ticket held to that station is not valid; likewise, if that station call is defined as for “set-down only” in the National Rail Timetable and in journey planners, then the Ticket held from that station is not valid.

So whilst there is the slight contradiction that you explain, I think the second paragraph is clear, and moreover is consistent with the actual terms, which will apply regardless, as the explanatory boxes do not override the contract.

 

[John Palmer]

I was about to make exactly the same point regarding Condition 14.2, except that I'm not sure I agree with the final paragraph. The final sentence in the explanatory panel makes it very clear that the split ticket approach at a set down/pick up only station doesn't work.



So whilst there is the slight contradiction that you explain, I think the second paragraph is clear, and moreover is consistent with the actual terms, which will apply regardless, as the explanatory boxes do not override the contract.

Indeed the second paragraph of the the note does accurately reflect the effect of Condition 14.2, but by that stage the damage has already been done by the first. Where you have two 'explanatory' paragraphs that contradict each other, which are you supposed to believe?

 

[Wallsendmag]

If you had an itinerary showing the service you caught, you were entitled to travel. Any dispute is an internal one between the relevant companies.

Where did you buy the tickets? Were you following the itinerary exactly?

Given what you've said, I believe Avanti could be in big trouble. I know of a TOC who had to pay hundreds of pounds for removing a passenger's bag.

Please let us know more details. Did you do anything that could be considered wrong? If you followed the itinerary given and didn't use any inappropriate language, then Avanti could indeed be in big trouble for this, if you choose to pursue it.

Which train did you catch? I believe Avanti have made some trains pick up only for the purpose of denying split ticketing; our website does split ticketing but will not issue itineraries with splits at such locations. However, perhaps other apps might do?

If you were not following the itinerary, then Avanti can ask you to pay, but they should not be grabbing your belongings (however some of their staff have been known to behave inappropriately, so it does not surprise me).

I am not convinced many BTP officers would be remotely interested in something as petty as a case of someone splitting at a pick-up only location, however there are no doubt one or two exceptions. So I am not surprised the police didn't attend.

Whether or not you should complain depends very much firstly on whether you were following the itinerary provided, and secondly on how you behaved and if there is any more to it than stated here.

Are you sure an itinerary was held? Sounds like it could be a manual split

 

[John R]

Indeed the second paragraph of the the note does accurately reflect the effect of Condition 14.2, but by that stage the damage has already been done by the first. Where you have two 'explanatory' paragraphs that contradict each other, which are you supposed to believe?

You go back and refer to the actual contract which is clear.

 

[WesternLancer]

As a matter of interest have we ever seen a case on here of someone having had action taken against them for refusing to provide details? (Obv by the nature of that the prospects of such action being takenare reduced)

If you were Avanti and chose to pursue the case it would be easier to do that given the probable video evidence than engage in debates about pick up/ set down split ticket validity I would think. At least on the face of it.

 

[Watershed]

You go back and refer to the actual contract which is clear.

But that is not how section 69 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 states that an ambiguous term should be interpreted.

 

[John Palmer]

You go back and refer to the actual contract which is clear.

All the more reason not to cloud the issue by inserting explanations that actively mislead. The rail industry has chosen to put its own gloss on the terms of the contract by including these 'explanations'. It cannot expect a passenger to 'unsee' them where they are apt to mislead. If the industry has doubts about the comprehensibility of its travel contract's terms, the correct solution is to re-draw them to eliminate ambiguity rather than increase such ambiguity by adding its non-contractual interpretation of them.

 

[John R]

But that is not how section 69 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 states that an ambiguous term should be interpreted.

But it’s not a term, and early on the NRCoT explicitly says that explanatory notes do not form part of the contract.

 

[John Palmer]

But it’s not a term, and early on the NRCoT explicitly says that explanatory notes do not form part of the contract.

Quite so, but a defence of the way in which the industry has chosen to present the contractual terms to which its passengers will be subject cannot disregard its decision to include in that presentation a commentary upon those terms' meaning. The expressed purpose of that commentary is "to help you understand the meaning of certain Conditions", so plainly the industry intends a passenger's understanding of its contract to be conditioned by the explanations it provides. If the explanation provided is misleading, it would be unjust to penalise a passenger who relies upon it to his detriment.

As I have said, the better course is not to create such ambiguities in the first place.

 

[Egg Centric]

As a matter of interest have we ever seen a case on here of someone having had action taken against them for refusing to provide details? (Obv by the nature of that the prospects of such action being takenare reduced)

@island has mentioned seeing one IRL

 

[saismee]

I think it all comes down to whether the journey matches an issued itinerary or not. If there is no itinerary issued, then it isn't a valid split and the customer is in the wrong. If there is an itinerary, it is valid and the customer shouldn't have had any issues (after showing the itinerary). The info box could also be interpreted as contradicting the zonal/ranger/rover ticket condition. I think it is common sense that a split ticket should require being able to alight and then reboard the same train (as that's literally what the tickets are for), and that staying on board is a convenience... it actually confuses a lot of people when a ticket office issues a split ticket as they think they need to change.

 

[yorkie]

Are you sure an itinerary was held? Sounds like it could be a manual split

I'm not sure of anything, which is why I said "If..." and have asked some questions to determine the facts.

Until we know the exact facts, it's impossible to comment (other than generically, and "if this..."/"if that...").

Screenshots would be useful too.

 

[aa620]

Welcome. You will get good advice here but I would say definitely do not make a complaint.

It’s actually an offence to refuse to give you name and address so even if the ticket was valid you’ve still committed a railway offence.

It will be interesting to read experts views on how split tickets relate to those few places where set down or pick up only calls are made, but even if this is valid with the ticket your other actions mean it’s not wise to draw attention to yourself. In my view.

Thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2025 ==

If you had an itinerary showing the service you caught, you were entitled to travel. Any dispute is an internal one between the relevant companies.

Where did you buy the tickets? Were you following the itinerary exactly?

Given what you've said, I believe Avanti could be in big trouble. I know of a TOC who had to pay hundreds of pounds for removing a passenger's bag.

Please let us know more details. Did you do anything that could be considered wrong? If you followed the itinerary given and didn't use any inappropriate language, then Avanti could indeed be in big trouble for this, if you choose to pursue it.

Which train did you catch? I believe Avanti have made some trains pick up only for the purpose of denying split ticketing; our website does split ticketing but will not issue itineraries with splits at such locations. However, perhaps other apps might do?

If you were not following the itinerary, then Avanti can ask you to pay, but they should not be grabbing your belongings (however some of their staff have been known to behave inappropriately, so it does not surprise me).

I am not convinced many BTP officers would be remotely interested in something as petty as a case of someone splitting at a pick-up only location, however there are no doubt one or two exceptions. So I am not surprised the police didn't attend.

Whether or not you should complain depends very much firstly on whether you were following the itinerary provided, and secondly on how you behaved and if there is any more to it than stated here.

Thanks for your response and your advice!

The train I caught was the 18:53 service from London Euston to Rugby, and on a couple of train apps, Milton Keynes Central is clearly stated as a calling point. However, the split tickets I purchased via the Uber app were made against the 18:46 service from London Euston to Rugby... so strictly speaking, no - I was not following the itinerary I booked.

 

[yorkie]

Does the Uber app show the train as calling there?

If it does, you could make a complaint to Uber on the basis that, although you didn't obtain that itinerary, if you did a subsequent search to see if the tickets were valid on another train, and it suggested it was, then you have a case against Uber for misinformation.

However, if it was a completely different app, which you have no contract with, then it's probably best to not do anything.

I am pleased to hear you were not charged anything, and that BTP didn't see fit to attend such a petty matter. It is disappointing to see Avanti staff behave in this manner, but not surprising.

Unless you know exactly what to say, I would leave it; I do know of some people with legal knowledge who would consider submitting a complaint about their property being grabbed, and I am aware of hundreds of pounds being paid out for an incident involving Greater Anglia, but if you don't have that knowledge yourself, it's not worth pursuing that.

In future, you may wish to consider buying from the forum's ticketing site in future; while we can't compete with Uber in terms of cashback, we do provide a better product, and much better customer support!

Also, if in doubt regarding the validity of any ticket, this forum is a good place to ask.

 

[aa620]

I can’t immediately link to it, but there is a specific section in the NRCoT which is very clear that if a train calls to set down only or pick up only then splitting tickets at that point is invalid.

I would imagine having a specific itinerary with that split would trump that condition, but in general terms it’s clear that you can’t split at such a point.

Thank you. The itinerary I booked was actually specifically for the 18:46, but MKC (the split point) was still shown on the 18:53 service on train apps, even though it was a "pick up" only stop on that service. I think these train apps need to be clearer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2025 ==

It's under 14.4 in the blue box:

thank you

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Apr 2025 ==

Some questions that will help others to answer more fully (although I think your best bet is do nothing and hope they don't get in touch atm)

Did this happen north or south of MK? What were the precise tickets held? Where were they bought from? Did you buy them or did someone buy them for you (maybe don't answer that one)? What service was it? Was the member of staff asking you to buy London-Rugby or London-Milton Keynes or something else?

 

[furlong]

However, the split tickets I purchased via the Uber app were made against the 18:46 service from London Euston to Rugby... so strictly speaking, no - I was not following the itinerary I booked.

We are asking whether you purchased those tickets as a single transaction (Uber sometimes splits for you) or as two separate transactions (you created the split yourself).
And please tell us the type of ticket (and price) and which train you travelled on.

But regardless. John Palmer and Watershed have set out how it ought to be possible to argue that what you did is permitted under the current National Rail Conditions of Travel (arguably due to some sloppy drafting). (And as I mentioned, even if it was determined two tickets can't be combined as per 14, there may still be an argument that the tickets are valid separately so the Call limitation in 14 is unfair and unenforceable.)

 

[aa620]

Some questions that will help others to answer more fully (although I think your best bet is do nothing and hope they don't get in touch atm)

Did this happen north or south of MK? What were the precise tickets held? Where were they bought from? Did you buy them or did someone buy them for you (maybe don't answer that one)? What service was it? Was the member of staff asking you to buy London-Rugby or London-Milton Keynes or something else?

Thanks for your response.
Yes - at this point I will do nothing, though the system is definitely more complex than I had imagined!

The train I caught was the 18:53 service from London Euston to Rugby, and on a couple of train apps, Milton Keynes Central is clearly stated as a calling point. However, the split tickets I purchased via the Uber app were made against the 18:46 service from London Euston to Rugby... so strictly speaking - I was not following the itinerary I booked.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The train I caught was the 18:53 service from London Euston to Rugby, and on a couple of train apps, Milton Keynes Central is clearly stated as a calling point. However, the split tickets I purchased via the Uber app were made against the 18:46 service from London Euston to Rugby... so strictly speaking - I was not following the itinerary I booked.

Just to add to the fun, it's a different operator as well. The midweek 1846 departure from Euston is operated by West Midlands Trains, whereas the 1853 is Avanti West Coast.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you. The itinerary I booked was actually specifically for the 18:46, but MKC (the split point) was still shown on the 18:53 service on train apps, even though it was a "pick up" only stop on that service. I think these train apps need to be clearer.

How did you find the itinerary on Uber? By telling the interface you wanted to buy a ticket to Rugby or further afield, I expect? The app is there to sell you a ticket, if you expand to include all stops I don’t think it’s misleading for them not to include what is - during the enquiry you’re making - irrelevant information. That MKC is pick up only wouldn’t be of any relevance to someone enquiring about a ticket from London to Rugby (or further afield).

In future look at something like Realtimetrains which will show you whether stops are open or otherwise. Or, you can check the timetable here https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/-...es/15-Dec-2024-17-May-2025-timetable-book.pdf

 

[aa620]

Did your ticket that you presented get scanned? If so I assume it’s possible they could still trace you even if you refused to verbally give your details to staff.

The evidence of that presumably being on the bodywork video which I’d guess was switched on when you became ‘uncooperative’ in the staff members opinion.

Prospect of that presumably depends on staff member deciding to complete a post incident report or just deciding not to bother.

Given others views on the ticket validity I suspect it might help to know more details as asked above, tho if these threads are observed by train company there’s some argument in not posting those details here unless you are actually contacted by Avanti in coming weeks.

If they haven’t track you by the scan on your ticket check your e mail and spam regularly over coming weeks and months.

The Avanti staff member did not scan my mobile ticket. They immediately rejected it as it prominently stated LON-MKC.

I also really doubt train companies have the time to be combing through online rail forums, nor would it be a good use of their time where there are no identifying personal details.

Your first response yesterday was helpful. This one is, in my opinion, pure fear-mongering. I definitely will not be checking my Junk folder in the next few weeks, let alone months.