Avanti Crewe depot

[Some guy]

The easiest way would be to (re-)introduce stops at Crewe.

That’s just not possible stopping at Crewe adds 6 minutes meaning it loses its path towards London and arrives later

 

[craigybagel]

I think it'd be a bit crazy to suggest closing down all those depots for the purpose of allocating all the work to Crewe because what benefit would it be bring? I think Crewe works fine being to the North Wales services what Preston is to Scotland services, that being a rough midway point where services can also terminate at, along with the added benefit of being able to supplement a few Manchester and Liverpool services. No way should it become a giant super depot though in my opinion.

That’s just not possible stopping at Crewe adds 6 minutes meaning it loses its path towards London and arrives later

In a very hypothetical world where BR Crewe had kept it's InterCity work on privatisation (of a huge depot of over 100, all but 18 went to various freight companies, with the remainder going to Wales & West), I'm sure the timetable would have designed around it.

However, this isn't what is being proposed. The rumours were they were looking for only 20 drivers, and no TMs or catering staff, making it one of if not the smallest traincrew depots within Avanti.

 

[185]

Most "nonstop" trains passing Crewe on the fast line lose several minutes anyway, generally spending about three minutes at the signals before.

Almost everything should stop at Crewe, it's a primary interchange for long distance trains, unlike many other stations that demand everything stops. Crewe signalling & track needs a cohesive plan, now that HS2 is out, the signalling should be ripped out and the whole lot re-done.

I still think Preston has a function but there is certainly a need for depot at Crewe.

 

[Starmill]

They would have to keep catering / train manager roles at Manchester, Liverpool, Preston and Wolverhampton as there are so many passenger services that start there early mornings and finish there late evenings. If you've already got the facilities and you've got to keep them at least partially open anyway...

 

[Carlisle]

In a very hypothetical world where BR Crewe had kept it's InterCity work on privatisation (of a huge depot of over 100, all but 18 went to various freight companies, with the remainder going to Wales & West), I'm sure the timetable would have designed around it.

I’m not sure it would considering other depots like Carlisle also lost all their I.C work in the run up to privatisation & Preston’s more or less half way between London & the Scottish termini whereas Crewe isn’t & Avanti struggles as it is during disruption serving the northern WCML

 

[Sorcerer]

I think it's fair to say that if Crewe depot still happens it probably won't be a super depot since there isn't really a need for one. It'd be great supplementary depot but unlike the Holyhead depot I feel like Avanti could probably manage without it. Maybe not without a few short term problems though, but I'm not expert on the inner workings of traincrew planning.

 

[craigybagel]

I’m not sure it would considering other depots like Carlisle also lost all their I.C work in the run up to privatisation & Preston’s more or less half way between London & the Scottish termini whereas Crewe isn’t & Avanti struggles as it is during disruption serving the northern WCML

I'm just saying IF the IC work had remained at Crewe the timetable would likely have taken that into account.

I think it's fair to say that if Crewe depot still happens it probably won't be a super depot since there isn't really a need for one. It'd be great supplementary depot but unlike the Holyhead depot I feel like Avanti could probably manage without it. Maybe not without a few short term problems though, but I'm not expert on the inner workings of traincrew planning.

Clearly the need for it isn't that pressing, as they've coped for nearly 30 years without one. But they must have identified some advantages from a new depot, otherwise they wouldn't have gone to the expense of building it. The infrastructure is all there, they just need some traincrew to inhabit it.

 

[Efini92]

That’s just not possible stopping at Crewe adds 6 minutes meaning it loses its path towards London and arrives later

It ends up being early around Crewe and Stafford anyway. The stop would probably make it a better run.

However, this isn't what is being proposed. The rumours were they were looking for only 20 drivers, and no TMs or catering staff, making it one of if not the smallest traincrew depots within Avanti.

40 is the number that’s banded about. Avanti have confirmed there will be TM’s there.

 

[Toby268]

It ends up being early around Crewe and Stafford anyway. The stop would probably make it a better run.

40 is the number that’s banded about. Avanti have confirmed there will be TM’s there.

Quite some time ago when they didn’t think the driver depot was happening and so the depot wouldn’t be dormant, they confirmed TMs would be there. But that doesn’t seem to be the case now.

 

[Efini92]

Quite some time ago when they didn’t think the driver depot was happening and so the depot wouldn’t be dormant, they confirmed TMs would be there. But that doesn’t seem to be the case now.

Oh really? I haven’t seen anything official to say it’s not happening. I’ve heard that many different things about Crewe depot, I think I’ll just believe if when/if it opens.

 

[irish_rail]

It is very much First group style to open as many small depots as possible. You only have to look at GWR where new depots have been opened at Bristol Parkway, Swindon and Cardiff. Arguably some / all are surplus to requirements and causing more trouble than they are worth in terms of giving the right depots the right route retention. I get the impression that things have moved on a little and the 'depot in every town' ship may have sailed for the time being as it does seem to have proven fairly expensive and inefficient (though that's not to say there aren't some positives of the new depots). So, I get the impression that either First group may have second thoughts on it, or under nationalisation the need for a west coast depot there may wain. LMR drivers based there may learn 80x or 390s and negate the need for another mini depot. Time will tell.....

 

[SCDR_WMR]

It ends up being early around Crewe and Stafford anyway. The stop would probably make it a better run.

40 is the number that’s banded about. Avanti have confirmed there will be TM’s there.

Having walked the depot, it is currently set up as only for drivers.

 

[RexMundi]

Where would they swap with the Glasgow staff on the Trent Valley services that don't stop at Crewe though?

Glasgow drivers would have to learn Preston - crewe.

I also now think it’s a non starter, I’d be very suprised if it ever happens

 

[scouseyb123]

Apparently its been given the green light.

 

[jayah]

It is very much First group style to open as many small depots as possible. You only have to look at GWR where new depots have been opened at Bristol Parkway, Swindon and Cardiff. Arguably some / all are surplus to requirements and causing more trouble than they are worth in terms of giving the right depots the right route retention. I get the impression that things have moved on a little and the 'depot in every town' ship may have sailed for the time being as it does seem to have proven fairly expensive and inefficient (though that's not to say there aren't some positives of the new depots). So, I get the impression that either First group may have second thoughts on it, or under nationalisation the need for a west coast depot there may wain. LMR drivers based there may learn 80x or 390s and negate the need for another mini depot. Time will tell.....

It makes sense if you are keeping trains there. Not sure about Cardiff though, this used to be the case, but not much any more.

Under nationalisation they need to operate as one company, not having cities with crew depots for 3-4 different passenger TOCs, none of whom work each others trains or routes.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

There has been a lot of managers visiting the depot and walkarounds in the past 2 weeks

 

[Dr Hoo]

Can we assume that DfT micro managers (or new ministers) have changed (or finally made up) their minds to explain this apparent recent flurry of activity?

 

[RexMundi]

Opening in dec apparently

 

[XCDriver]

Relax guys. the process requires the Unions and management to complete all the health n safety and other stuff by law before it can happen. Avanti n ASLEF need to work out the work content, diagrams, etc. Other depots will not be affected by it, just a movement of drivers and other staff (you do need other staff too when a depot is created).

A whole host of safety critical stuff needs to be worked out from walking routes, every small detail, in place from day one. Minefield of stuff to be done, but getting done.

Drivers were told to apply for transfer and based on time frame, first to apply first in etc, and it was over subscribed. Happy days, Crewe gets bigger yet again.

Dec 2024 was the plan, but still a lot of the seriously tedious stupid small stuff which matters most, still to be worked out.

It will happen!

 

[Toby268]

They are now advertising for a driver manager for Crewe depot. It is happening by December.

 

[Ericscollar]

They are now advertising for a driver manager for Crewe depot. It is happening by December.

Dept opens December 15th with 15 drivers, that number will rise to 25 by May 2025.

 

[Llandudno]

Dept opens December 15th with 15 drivers, that number will rise to 25 by May 2025.

Will the new Crewe depot sign Crewe - Holyhead?

If not will it still lead to many Euston - Holyhead services being truncated at Crewe/Chester due to lack of crew?

 

[Llama]

Crewe drivers will sign Holyhead yes.

 

[Ericscollar]

Will the new Crewe depot sign Crewe - Holyhead?

If not will it still lead to many Euston - Holyhead services being truncated at Crewe/Chester due to lack of crew?

Yes it will sign Holyhead/Wrexham through to London.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2024 ==

Crewe drivers will sign Holyhead yes.

Correct, they will.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

They should also be signing Sandbach-Chester via Middlewich which will improve resilience further.

Some planned ECS moves from Wrexham/Chester are now scheduled to use that route, although they don't always go to plan!

 

[Ericscollar]

They should also be signing Sandbach-Chester via Middlewich which will improve resilience further.

Some planned ECS moves from Wrexham/Chester are now scheduled to use that route, although they don't always go to plan!

There’s a plan for that to happen, along with Chester to Warrington via Frodsham but getting drivers released for route learning whilst trying to run a timetable has challenges

 

[JDAWC]

Will they sign 390s too?

 

[Ericscollar]

Will they sign 390s too?

Yes 390’s &’80X

 

[craigybagel]

From the driver route knowledge thread:

Wrexham
Holyhead
Chester
Preston
All routes south of Crewe
No Manchester, Liverpool or Blackpool

I shall update that thread to include Avanti Crewe when the depot opens

 

[JDAWC]

Yes 390’s &’80X

Thanks.