Autumn Statement

[DC1989]

Fuel duty up 12p a litre too (23% increase)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fuel duty up 12p a litre too (23% increase)

Where was this stated? I can't see any evidence of it anywhere.

 

[DC1989]

Where was this stated? I can't see any evidence of it anywhere.

Reported by the Guardian and GB News. Although saying that, he'll probably scrap it nearer the time

"OBR: fuel duty going up in March​

Jeremy Hunt didn’t mention this in his statement, but the Office for Budget Responsibility says fuel duty is set to rise by 23% next March.

This will add £5.7bn to tax receipts next year, which would be a record cash increase, the budget watchdog says.

It would be the first time that any Government has raised fuel duty rates in cash terms since 1 January 2011.

It is expected to raise the price of petrol and diesel by around 12p a litre, the OBR adds."

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't see that going ahead.

Or if it does, it will for a couple of weeks until mass protest results in it being rescinded.

 

[brad465]

Apparently ERG MPs left the house just before the statement was announced. If true it shows signs of discontent and may make passing the budget more difficult, even if they just abstain.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apparently ERG MPs left the house just before the statement was announced. If true it shows signs of discontent and may make passing the budget more difficult, even if they just abstain.

I reckon Labour will vote for it. It's a sensible, prudent, just-left-of-centre budget. I suspect Hunt knows that.

 

[brad465]

I reckon Labour will vote for it. It's a sensible, prudent, just-left-of-centre budget. I suspect Hunt knows that.

Labour will have to come up with some strong justification for voting for it, given Rachel Reeves' takedown of it afterwards. That said if Labour votes are the difference between the Budget passing and not, they will use that strongly to highlight Tory party divisions.

 

[Wynd]

Great to see the North Sea, and even now renewables too, bailing out Whitehall, yet again.

£400Billion quid and counting.

At 75% effective tax rates, talk about killing the golden goose.

 

[JonathanH]

They really need to drop the personal allowance tapering, it's silly as it applies a super tax to a narrow income band. Just either increase the 45% rate a bit or move the threshold down slightly further to get the same income.

It makes sense to remove the personal allowance at some level of income. £100,000 is a reasonably fair place to do that. Is it better to have 45% at £75,000 or the effective 60% at £100,000?

Arguably the 20p tax band could also be tapered out at some level of income also although I am not sure what, perhaps £250,000?

What I think really needs to happen is that different tax rates should apply to the caring professions (eg nurses, doctors, ambulance workers, carers, teachers, maybe police and fire etc) so that tax changes don't affect them and governments can be a bit more aggressive on tax for everyone else.

 

[43096]

Great to see the North Sea, and even now renewables too, bailing out Whitehall, yet again.

£400Billion quid and counting.

At 75% effective tax rates, talk about killing the golden goose.

They're making super-profits from luck and the government is having to bail-out the customers they fleece. Seems fair to me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It makes sense to remove the personal allowance at some level of income.

No, it doesn't. It's pointless complexity, creates very high effective rates in narrow taxation bands, and you can easily claw it back by fiddling with the bands of the upper levels.

It's the same with means-testing things like child benefit. It adds complexity, and you can easily claw it back in taxation. Easier just to give everyone the same and claw it back by changing tax bands and rates.

What I think really needs to happen is that different tax rates should apply to the caring professions (eg nurses, doctors, ambulance workers, carers, teachers, maybe police and fire etc) so that tax changes don't affect them and governments can be a bit more aggressive on tax for everyone else.

Definitely not. They should simply be paid properly. Simplicity in the tax system so people can easily understand what they're paying and why is important.

 

[yorksrob]

Great to see the North Sea, and even now renewables too, bailing out Whitehall, yet again.

£400Billion quid and counting.

At 75% effective tax rates, talk about killing the golden goose.

An increased tax rate on artificially inflated profits caused by the Russia problem.

 

[Bletchleyite]

An increased tax rate on artificially inflated profits caused by the Russia problem.

Exactly. The only people who would argue against that are owners of shares in oil companies.

 

[JonathanH]

No, it doesn't. It's pointless complexity, creates very high effective rates in narrow taxation bands, and you can easily claw it back by fiddling with the bands of the upper levels.

Where do you kick in 45% then? £75,000?

 

[DelayRepay]

Exactly. The only people who would argue against that are owners of shares in oil companies.

Which, to be fair, anyone who has a private pension probably is, at least indirectly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where do you kick in 45% then? £75,000?

If you want to know where it'd be, do a spreadsheet.

The point is that the tax system should be simple, progressive and not contain any "super tax" anomalies like that.

 

[Bungle73]

TBH it was inevitable that zero VED for electric vehicles would end in the future as soon as they became more widely available. I am surprised they were exempt in the first place though.

VED is an emission tax, why wouldn't they be exempt?

This better not be the start of a slippery slope.....

 

[E27007]

I anticipated a far harsher budget than today, I expected VAT to rise to 23% and Income tax to rise by 3p to 23p in the £.
Do we still pay the 5% VAT tax on domestic energy bills?
If the 5% is an incentive to cut usage, it is no longer needed, the major rises in energy bills are all the incentive we need today

 

[Bletchleyite]

VED is an emission tax, why wouldn't they be exempt?

VED is no longer an emissions tax other than the first year of ownership of a new vehicle, it is flat rate since 2017 other than a tenner off for hybrids and free for EVs.

This of course creates a perverse incentive as the older rates still apply for older cars. All should be standardised on the new £165.

This better not be the start of a slippery slope.....

Did you think EVs would be exempt forever, even where nobody owns an ICE car any more bar classics? How were you going to replace that tax, 30p base rate income tax or 30% VAT maybe?

 

[DelayRepay]

VED is no longer an emissions tax other than the first year of ownership of a new vehicle, it is flat rate since 2017 other than a tenner off for hybrids and free for EVs.

This of course creates a perverse incentive as the older rates still apply for older cars. All should be standardised on the new £165.

As an example of a perverse incentive, my car is a 2014 diesel with a 1.6 litre engine. Not great from an emissions viewpoint. My road tax is £20 per year. When I change to a less polluting car (unless it's an EV), my VED will increase eight-fold.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I anticipated a far harsher budget than today, I expected VAT to rise to 23% and Income tax to rise by 3p to 23p in the £.
Do we still pay the 5% VAT tax on domestic energy bills?
If the 5% is an incentive to cut usage, it is no longer needed, the major rises in energy bills are all the incentive we need today

Most of its pushed into "the next election cycle as well". Funny that. Wonder why that is?

 

[Domh245]

This doesn't work as EV batteries are heavy.

Norway has imposed a weight tax (well, extended it from Petrol & Diesel to include electric vehicles) - a one off when purchased, of ~£1.25 for every kilo over 500kg. Yes EVs are preferable to ICE vehicles, but they are heavy (with everything that entails for road damage) and that should be reflected. What you can also do, is whilst applying a weight tax to all vehicles, also impose (or alter) a 'tailpipe emissions' tax to still incentivise EVs

 

[GS250]

I reckon Labour will vote for it. It's a sensible, prudent, just-left-of-centre budget. I suspect Hunt knows that.

This is absolutely the type of budget I'd expect to be produced by an average Labour party. In fact...I'd actually be surprised if SK Starmer was particularly happy with some of those higher paying city slicker pals of his having to pay a bit more.

The days of a truly libertarian economic system that gambled on recovery are well and truly over. Truss tried it.....and look where it got her.

However....it seems in general....that theres a grudging acceptance that this type of budget was coming.

 

[david1212]

As an example of a perverse incentive, my car is a 2014 diesel with a 1.6 litre engine. Not great from an emissions viewpoint. My road tax is £20 per year. When I change to a less polluting car (unless it's an EV), my VED will increase eight-fold.

In time either that will change or compensated for.

The bigger loss to the government / state as the number of EV's increases is the duty (53p/litre) & VAT. Out of a 170p litre that is over 80p. If the vehicle covers 10 miles on that litre the income to the government / state is ~8p/mile. However done, various options are discussed in detail on another thread, the government / state will introduce collection of this.


Locking the basic tax & NI thresholds until 2028 is significant with inflation running over 10%. While the Bank of England think it will start to fall in the middle of next year and their target in two years is down to 2% I think the latter is optimistic.
When will inflation in the UK come down?

Retaining the basic pension triple lock is just words given my expectations for inflation plus I do not the average wage will increase above inflation for several years. What is a possibility is the basic new state pension exceeding the basic rate tax threshold from April 2027 if not before. If it does 100% of a workplace or private personal pension will become taxable. Presuming no other taxable income up to April 2023 ~£3000 is tax free. After then only ~£2100. This is on top of private personal pension funds loosing absolute value never mind losses against inflation.


Retaining the energy cap until April 2024 gives some medium term reassurance but now from April 2023 another 20% to find.

 

[Broucek]

The point is that the tax system should be simple, progressive and not contain any "super tax" anomalies like that.

Right. Far better to kick in the 45% at a lower level.

And don’t get me started on the complexity of pension tax. I’m a qualified pensions actuary (albeit a long time ago) and I recently messed up calculating some countback relief (thankfully someone checked it for me).

 

[brad465]

If you're a Tory MP, don't look at the front pages tomorrow (apart from the Express, which seems to live in the first iteration of The Matrix):

Tomorrow's Papers Today - UK Front Pages - Latest Newspaper Headlines

All of UK's Tomorrow's Front Pages ✅ Updated Daily between 7PM - 11pm ✅ The Mail, Express, Times, Guardian and many more Proudly supporting #buyapaper

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk

(Images of tomorrows front pages with largely negative reporting of the Budget)

 

[DustyBin]

If you're a Tory MP, don't look at the front pages tomorrow (apart from the Express, which seems to live in the first iteration of The Matrix):

Tomorrow's Papers Today - UK Front Pages - Latest Newspaper Headlines

All of UK's Tomorrow's Front Pages ✅ Updated Daily between 7PM - 11pm ✅ The Mail, Express, Times, Guardian and many more Proudly supporting #buyapaper

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk

View attachment 123940View attachment 123941View attachment 123942View attachment 123943View attachment 123944View attachment 123945View attachment 123946View attachment 123947View attachment 123948
(Images of tomorrows front pages with largely negative reporting of the Budget)

I actually laughed when I saw the front of the Express there, it never ceases to amaze!

 

[BrianW]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1118417/CCS1022065440-001_SECURE_HMT_Autumn_Statement_November_2022_Web_accessible__1_.pdf

ONE reference to rail in the Autumn Statement:

3.18 The Autumn Statement recommits to the government’s transformative growth plans for
our railways. These include East West Rail, core Northern Powerhouse Rail, and High Speed 2
to Manchester. These will provide fast, more reliable services and connect people to new job
opportunities.

A sceptic miaght note no reference to timescales; extent of EWR?; core NPR; HS2 only to Manchester; fast not faster; more reliable services, not more services.

 

[Freightmaster]

I actually laughed when I saw the front of the Express there, it never ceases to amaze!

Probably the same guy that trots out their annual "record breaking arctic blast expected this winter"
style headlines?!







MARK

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I thought the purpose of His Majesty's Opposition was to be against the government, not to vote for the tory budget!
..
Weight tax on vehicles seems a very good idea. Would the manufacturers figures be trusted?

I suggest vehicles could be weighed at the MoT test.