Automatically applied discount at TVM

[Surreytraveller]

Just saw this on a ticket machine. Automatically applies a discount for children for £2 when relevant. Its a GTR machine.
How does it know if its relevent to apply the discount, and that the holder knows and will stick to the T&Cs?

 

[kacper]

On GTR children can travel for £2 when with an adult. Adding child tickets to an adult ticket will only be charged £2 on GTR routes then. Southeastern, Greater Anglia and ScotRail operate similar schemes

 

[Adam Williams]

How does it know if its relevent to apply the discount,

Each TIS supplier writes their own code to determine when to retail a child flat fare.

 

[Surreytraveller]

But what if the child came back separately? Issuing a discounted ticket automatically leaves passengers wide open to be stitched up.
What if an adult already possesses a ticket?

 

[infobleep]

But what if the child came back separately? Issuing a discounted ticket automatically leaves passengers wide open to be stitched up.
What if an adult already possesses a ticket?

If the adult already owns a ticket, I assume it can't sell the cheaper child ticket, unless there is an option to say you already own an adult ticket.

 

[redreni]

Just saw this on a ticket machine. Automatically applies a discount for children for £2 when relevant. Its a GTR machine.
How does it know if its relevent to apply the discount, and that the holder knows and will stick to the T&Cs?

How do TVMs ensure customers know the T&Cs applicable to any ticket?

As their functionality has grown over the years, we tend to forget that TVMs gained an accepted role in our railways in a context where people making their regular journey and wanting to buy their regular ticket - who did not need advice - had previously been expected to queue for tickets at ticket offices, often getting stuck behind irregular travellers who needed assistance to plan their journey and identify the most suitable ticket. In the early/mid 90s, say, buying online wasn't an option and penalty fares schemes were starting to be introduced meaning regular travellers confronted with a big queue were, in many areas, no longer allowed to buy on board. In that context, TVMs were a brilliant invention, but they weren't intended to cater for the irregular traveller who needs advice.

I quite agree somebody asking a TVM for one adult ticket and two child return tickets to X is not necessarily giving any undertaking, in asking for those tickets, that the group will necessarily stay together or travel on the same trains. They're just saying those are the tickets they wish to buy. If the T&Cs applicable to the child tickets offered by the TVM require the children to be accompanied, this should be made clear before the ticket is sold (along with the alternative of buying tickets at the usual child rate if flexibility to travel unaccompanied by the main ticket holder was wanted).

I fear, however, that if this is pointed out too forcefully to the TOCs, they may say "well, if you don't want us to sell tickets with special T&Cs, we won't" and just stop selling the £2 tickets from TVMs, rather than improve the information provided by the TVM at point of sale. In fairness I think the case where one person buys all the tickets from a TVM in one transaction but then the group doesn't travel together won't be all that common, and the cases where anybody checks or minds will be rarer still.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Dec 2024 ==

If the adult already owns a ticket, I assume it can't sell the cheaper child ticket, unless there is an option to say you already own an adult ticket.

Well, quite. These are the sorts of cases where I would really miss ticket offices if they weren't there - buying add-ons. I often do this with PlusBus tickets, for example.

Whether it would be possible to have TVMs that will scan an existing ticket held and offer any available add-ons such as accompanied child tickets or PlusBus, I don't know? Or, could online retailers perhaps add the facility to buy add-on tickets after booking?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Probably a case of can't win whatever they do, I suppose. It will cause aggro one way or the other.
Another symptom of the needlessly complicated fare structure, with accompanying complicated T&Cs with unreasonable reactions from the TOC if in breach of T&Cs

 

[redreni]

Or just provide a ticket machine that is capable of doing what a knowledgeable and competent ticket office clerk would do? I.e. check if the adult and children intend to stay together and then offer the appropriate tickets. Or quote both prices and explain the difference: the cheaper price is only if you're going to travel together as a group.

Really, the decision needs to be taken whether TVMs are going to be very clever (which they need to be if they're going to replace ticket offices) or very basic (in which case at least people will know what they're getting).

Making them so they do some thinking but not very much, and don't show their working or reveal what assumptions they're making, isn't very helpful imho.

 

[Haywain]

Or just provide a ticket machine that is capable of doing what a knowledgeable and competent ticket office clerk would do? I.e. check if the adult and children intend to stay together and then offer the appropriate tickets. Or quote both prices and explain the difference: the cheaper price is only if you're going to travel together as a group.

Really, the decision needs to be taken whether TVMs are going to be very clever (which they need to be if they're going to replace ticket offices) or very basic (in which case at least people will know what they're getting).

Making them so they do some thinking but not very much, and don't show their working or reveal what assumptions they're making, isn't very helpful imho.

Great. How long do you want to spend at the ticket machine?

 

[paninaro]

Would someone at a ticket office always ask if the child is intending to come back with you? I don't remember *ever* being asked that?

 

[redreni]

Great. How long do you want to spend at the ticket machine?

I'd be quite happy for TVMs to be like they were in the mid 90s. 18 or 20 destinations to choose from, each with their own button which lights up when pressed, another set of buttons for Adult / Child and a selection of Railcards, and when you've got two lights glowing you put your money in. That was a very quick and simple process. It just required separate provision for those with more complex requirements.