Automatic Ticket Barriers at Euston

[Kite159]

I used the ones on platform 2/3 last week, post slope. I believe platform 1 has it's own barriers too, not sure if they are in use but I assume so.

The 5 barriers for P1, which is going to be rather fun when they are up and running as they are 4 standard sized, 1 wide & 1 access gate to the side, when a 11-car 390 from Scotland pulls in (i.e. one where passengers have a bit of luggage)

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 5 barriers for P1, which is going to be rather fun when they are up and running as they are 4 standard sized, 1 wide & 1 access gate to the side, when a 11-car 390 from Scotland pulls in (i.e. one where passengers have a bit of luggage)

I really don't understand why they didn't do a combined set of barriers for 1-3 at the top rather than the bottom of the ramp. Actually, I really don't understand why they didn't just put a run of barriers under the departure board for all platforms.

Are they using the barriers to prevent access before the trains are ready for boarding, perhaps, thus requiring a set for each platform? Is 1 now fully segregated from 2/3 as a result, or can you walk round if you want and use the 2/3 barriers?

 

[Hadders]

I was in London earlier so popped into Euston to have a look.

The new barriers are at the bottom of the ramp but cover platforms 2 and 3 only. Platform 1 has no barriers! When the barriers are in operation (they weren't when I was there) platforms 2 and 3 are physically separate from 1.

Lots of CCTV cameras directed face on at the barrier line - I suspect part of the reason for barriers is so that excellent CCTV images of all passengers arriving and departing can be obtained.

The barriers don't have Oyster capability. Certainly no yellow Oyster stickers on them. This will cause problems if LM use these platforms.

It's difficult to see how they will get a decent sized gate line on any of the other platforms. Surely they can't put a gate line on the slope itself and there really isn't much space at the bottom of the ramp to get anything in.

Other points of interest:

The new mezzanine floor is now open. It has food outlets and a general seating area. Only one escalator serves the area which was going down (surely it should run up if there's only one). Couldn't see any lifts either.

The old food court is closed and undergoing redevelopment.

The standalone food kiosks that were against the front of the building facing into the piazza have been removed. The front of the building has been extended slightly with new food kiosks facing into the piazza incorporated into the extension.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's difficult to see how they will get a decent sized gate line on any of the other platforms. Surely they can't put a gate line on the slope itself and there really isn't much space at the bottom of the ramp to get anything in.

They aren't doing 16-18, but if they did I think they would have to go at the bottom in the same way as 1-3, as the layout is not dissimilar. Barriering 16-18 and closing the back exit would be very unpopular with commuters, though, as the ramp is so narrow that it can take some minutes to exit if it is ever closed, as it sometimes is in the event of high security being required, e.g. during the Olympics.

8-11 is obviously already done. That leaves 4-7 and 12-15, which would I think require them to be placed on the slope. I'd expect them to go where the doors are now. I don't see any particular reason they couldn't go on the slope.

 

[miami]

I really don't understand why they didn't do a combined set of barriers for 1-3 at the top rather than the bottom of the ramp. Actually, I really don't understand why they didn't just put a run of barriers under the departure board for all platforms.

Burger King, Pasty shop, Bakeries, left luggage, etc, not to mention the side entrance by platform 18.

 

[The Planner]

The new barriers are at the bottom of the ramp but cover platforms 2 and 3 only. Platform 1 has no barriers! When the barriers are in operation (they weren't when I was there) platforms 2 and 3 are physically separate from 1.

Platform 1 has barriers, they are around the side.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Burger King, Pasty shop, Bakeries, left luggage, etc

They are in the throes of a massive redevelopment of the catering facilities at Euston. I'm sure some stuff could have been moved, while other stuff could have remained behind the barrier as it was at the old New St. Plenty of stations have catering facilities and/or toilets behind the barriers, and moving the left luggage would hardly be difficult.

not to mention the side entrance by platform 18.

I don't think the small side entrance is vitally important other than as a staff smoking area, and staff would presumably have gate passes. The side entrance by platform 18 that counts is the road access gate, and that would have to be closed if 16-18 were ever barriered because there is no sensible[1] barrier layout that would allow it to be used.

[1] I don't count 1 separate from 2/3 sensible, though; no automatic barrier layout that requires as many staff as a manual grip makes any sense.

 

[OneOffDave]

One of the issues with the barriers at 2-3 is that all the wide gates are at one end of the run of barriers. If you have trains arriving and departing at the same time as frequently happens around the 1813 LM departure, users of the wide gate in one direction will have to fight against the flow of passengers in the other direction.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The side entrance by platform 18 that counts is the road access gate, and that would have to be closed if 16-18 were ever barriered because there is no sensible[1] barrier layout that would allow it to be used.

And I'm not being hyperbolic when I say doing that would be extremely dangerous during the peak. The ramp and the narrow corridor past Patisserie Valerie can't cope as it is with the 0826 LM arrival, and that's with most people going out through the road. When the RPIs have been out doing a manual grip it's taken me 15 minutes to get off the platform.

Really you'd need the barrier line to be at the bottom of the ramp for those platforms, roughly where the Oyster readers are now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

users of the wide gate in one direction will have to fight against the flow of passengers in the other direction.

That already happens with the barriers at 8-11, so what's new?

It's fairly common for the barrier staff to release the barriers at 8-11 in the morning peak because of overcrowding on the platform and on the ramp. Can't help but think that kinda defeats the point of having the blasted things...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The barriers don't have Oyster capability. Certainly no yellow Oyster stickers on them. This will cause problems if LM use these platforms.

It'll cause problems for anyone wishing to use boundary zone tickets or 19(c) splits too. I can't help but wonder if that is the plan...

 

[Bletchleyite]

And I'm not being hyperbolic when I say doing that would be extremely dangerous during the peak. The ramp and the narrow corridor past Patisserie Valerie can't cope as it is with the 0826 LM arrival, and that's with most people going out through the road. When the RPIs have been out doing a manual grip it's taken me 15 minutes to get off the platform.

Really you'd need the barrier line to be at the bottom of the ramp for those platforms, roughly where the Oyster readers are now.

Yes, I suppose there is room to barrier 16, then 17/18, by going across either side of the "roadway". But it isn't planned, partly I guess because those platforms only have a few years left before being closed for HS2 work, and partly because they are mainly served by LM and so VT aren't going to pay for any work needed.

But as regards closing the exit, it *was* done for the Olympics, and I expect if the "terror alert" is raised it'll be done again. It was a pain (particularly for anyone wanting to come *down* the ramp against the flow) but it wasn't dangerous. I certainly complained to LM about it and that was the reason given. At the end of the Olympics it was reopened.

It's fairly common for the barrier staff to release the barriers at 8-11 in the morning peak because of overcrowding on the platform and on the ramp. Can't help but think that kinda defeats the point of having the blasted things...

Not really. Observation of a ticket check taking place on any morning LM services shows that the level of fare dodging at those times is *very* low. Enforcement is needed more at off-peak times, particularly late evening where pretty much all non-London LM stations have their barriers open and unstaffed.

It'll cause problems for anyone wishing to use boundary zone tickets or 19(c) splits too. I can't help but wonder if that is the plan...

So few people are doing 19(c) or BZ tickets *using Oyster* that handling them at the manual gate is probably not a great issue. While if you allow Oyster/contactless to open the barrier, everyone near enough has a way in not involving showing a valid ticket.

Do any LM services with PAYG/Travelcard validity use 1-3 other than that? I didn't think LM used them at all, but the only reference to them doing so on here has been a Crewe service that doesn't stop south of MKC, so other than 19(c) or BZ tickets Oyster is not valid, and contactless is not valid at all.

 

[Hadders]

What about someone travelling from Watford Junction to Euston using Oyster on a train using platforms 1-3?

 

[miami]

What about someone travelling from Watford Junction to Euston using Oyster on a train using platforms 1-3?

Can anyone confirm LM use platform 1-3 for any trains aside from Crewes?

The platforms never used to have oyster validators there in any case, so I can't imagine it's a very common occurrence.

 

[Pumbaa]

Can anyone confirm LM use platform 1-3 for any trains aside from Crewes?



The platforms never used to have oyster validators there in any case, so I can't imagine it's a very common occurrence.

Crewes and fast line Birminghams can go out of there (13 and 49).

 

[Tetchytyke]

Can anyone confirm LM use platform 1-3 for any trains aside from Crewes?

The platforms never used to have oyster validators there in any case, so I can't imagine it's a very common occurrence.

It's not a regular occurrence, but I've taken the late night stopper from platform 3 on a Saturday before now.

 

[miami]

It's not a regular occurrence, but I've taken the late night stopper from platform 3 on a Saturday before now.

I suspect the barriers will be open for those limited situations. How do PAYG people validate though?

I'm surprised they didn't put a couple of standalone validators next to the vehicle gates at the time. I guess it must be Virgin who have paid for the barriers and as they don't operate London-Watford there'd be no benefit.

When you put a ticket in the machine, does it pop up at the control station where the ticket is from/to? Or does it just validate/not validate?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure I saw a notice telling passengers to go and validate on one of the other validators on the 4-7 or 12-15 ramp.

 

[All Line Rover]

Ticket barriers, which were installed some weeks ago, are now in operation on platforms 1 to 3 at Euston station. Today I had a rover ticket which the gates wouldn't accept and it took the attendant more than a minute to open a gate manually! Not good when trying to board a Virgin Trains service where the doors can be locked up to two minutes before departure.

I have a few questions about the barriers:

1. Will they be installed on the narrower platform entrances (e.g. 12 to 15)?

2. Do the barriers accept all valid walk-up tickets, including off-peak tickets to Milton Keynes, Lancaster, etc., at times when peak fares apply for tickets to Rugby, Manchester, etc.?

3. Do the barriers accept Oyster cards loaded with a Travelcard for Virgin Trains departures (because holders of Zones 1 to x Travelcards should only need to buy a ticket from boundary zone x+1 to their destination station)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

1. Will they be installed on the narrower platform entrances (e.g. 12 to 15)?

Yes. The only platforms where they will not be installed are 16-18, and 8-11 where there are already barriers.

2. Do the barriers accept all valid walk-up tickets, including off-peak tickets to Milton Keynes, Lancaster, etc., at times when peak fares apply for tickets to Rugby, Manchester, etc.?

I don't know.

3. Do the barriers accept Oyster cards loaded with a Travelcard for Virgin Trains departures (because holders of Zones 1 to x Travelcards should only need to buy a ticket from boundary zone x+1 to their destination station)?

On 1-3 they do not accept Oyster in any form, so this would need to be done manually where applicable. FWIW, it is boundary zone X you need, not X+1.

 

[All Line Rover]

On 1-3 they do not accept Oyster in any form, so this would need to be done manually where applicable. FWIW, it is boundary zone X you need, not X+1.

I don't use boundary zone tickets myself as I don't have an in-boundary Travelcard, but out of interest, why would passengers wanting to buy these tickets need overlapping zones?

 

[Tetchytyke]

There isn't any overlapping.

A zone 1-2 Travelcard needs a boundary zone 2 ticket, i.e. the outer edge of that zone, etc etc.

 

[tsr]

I don't use boundary zone tickets myself as I don't have an in-boundary Travelcard, but out of interest, why would passengers wanting to buy these tickets need overlapping zones?

You don't. You need an extra ticket from the boundary of the zone of the first, if that makes sense.

Boundary Zone 6-Gatwick Airport & a Zones 1-6 Travelcard, for example.

The Boundary Zone ticket is not in itself zonal, but gives validity from the edge of the outermost applicable zone of your zonal ticket.

 

[All Line Rover]

I see. I think I was confusing boundary zone tickets with Zone Ux tickets.

 

[Trackman]

Been through today on platform 1 at Euston. Biggest problem was luggage, 3 small gates and a large one which everyone was using. A guy in front of me put his seat reservation in, then it spat it out, he got the right ticket but the gate wouldn't take it (no error, just point blank wouldn't take the ticket). Turns out he had passed a sensor so had to step back and approach the gate again. Never seen this before. The VT guys would rather have manual ticket checks judging by their faces!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Been through today on platform 1 at Euston. Biggest problem was luggage, 3 small gates and a large one which everyone was using. A guy in front of me put his seat reservation in, then it spat it out, he got the right ticket but the gate wouldn't take it (no error, just point blank wouldn't take the ticket). Turns out he had passed a sensor so had to step back and approach the gate again. Never seen this before. The VT guys would rather have manual ticket checks judging by their faces!

Personally I think having them split by platform has no benefit over manual checks, and assuming they accept any ticket from Euston a significant disbenefit. I still think the station should have been rejigged a little in order to put a single long barrier line with multiple wide gates under the departure boards, possibly also adding a smaller remotely monitored line with an openable gate to allow exit from P16-18 to the street.

 

[All Line Rover]

The barriers on platform 1 are absurd. I can't believe that trying to cram 600 people through 4 gates passed a risk assessment.

I have only used them once, as for every other journey I have made using that platform, they have not been in operation.

The barriers for platforms 2 and 3 are just about adequate. Those on platform 1 should have been installed on the right (the area leading to the platform), rather than the narrow strip at the entrance of the platform, but this may not have been possible because the area on the right appears to be used by vehicular traffic. In which case, don't bother installing them!

 

[Kettledrum]

The barriers on platform 1 are absurd. I can't believe that trying to cram 600 people through 4 gates passed a risk assessment..... don't bother installing them!

DafT seem to think its a good idea to spend billions of pounds on major infrastructure schemes to shave minutes of the train journeys, but at the same time install poorly designed and poorly manned ticket barriers that add minutes on to your journey when you have to join a massive queue to get through the barrier and out of the station at the end of your journey.

 

[exile]

I'm actually quite happy with barriers, if passengers are given sufficient notice of which platform their train is leaving from.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm actually quite happy with barriers, if passengers are given sufficient notice of which platform their train is leaving from.

Yes, this is all the more reason that the Euston scrum has to go. Train in, clear platform, lock doors, put it on the board. Then it will be more of a Euston trickle.

 

[Starmill]

I'm far from convinced that barriers are either necessary or likely to improve satisfaction at Euston. I'd also question how much fare evasion there was in the first place and how much cheaper this new 'solution' will be.

I suppose the biggest part of the saving will be substituting some of the staff who have training with STM contractors.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose the biggest part of the saving will be substituting some of the staff who have training with STM contractors.

Whyever would they do that, given that the barrier staff would only have to deal with complex things that don't work the barrier? It is more of a staff reduction thing, surely - only one member of staff is needed to man each in-use set of barriers, whereas to do a manual grip used about 4?

FWIW I think a barrier line under the departure board *would* have been a money saver - I think the per-platform one won't be. It would also have served to moderate the Euston scrum, a significant safety benefit.