Automatic gate behaviour

[ianBR]

Last week I witnessed a tourist arriving in Brighton who had put her ticket into the gate but was standing looking confused and waiting for the gate to the right to open (rather than the one to the left which was now open). Hope that makes sense!

However before I had chance to help her, the gate which was had been open then closed (presumably after a certain amount of time had passed).

The poor girl then had to go join a giant queue waiting to get through the manned barrier..... and no doubt in the worst case scenario would then be penalty fared for not having a ticket as I'm quite sure she'd struggle to know which of the 20+ gates her ticket was retained by.



This got me thinking....

1) Why do the gates close if no-one has passed through. At the very least surely they should then return the ticket rather than retaining it if they are going to close without the passenger exiting.

2) Why aren't there some obvious arrows (as I've seen used in Europe) so its more clear to tourists which gate the ticket slot is linked to.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Roughly 90% of the world (according to google) is right-handed, so most gates would have the reader/whatever on the right by default. Off the top of my head I can’t think of any systems that have it on the left.

 

[hexagon789]

Why aren't there some obvious arrows (as I've seen used in Europe) so its more clear to tourists which gate the ticket slot is linked to.

The barriers I've used have arrows pointing to the correct gate to go through (or a cross if they are set for the opposite direction and thus no entry from the side you're on).

Like this:



In direct eye-line with the ticket slot

 

[Benjwri]

Why do the gates close if no-one has passed through. At the very least surely they should then return the ticket rather than retaining it if they are going to close without the passenger exiting.

It was likely decided that the benefits didn’t meet the downsides, firstly a motion sensor at its very basic implementation would cost ~£50, and what if someone accidentally steps over it, leaving the gate open, leading to fare evasion.

I highly, highly doubt it’s a common problem that not only can someone not read the arrow, but they don’t notice the next door gate open as they put their ticket in.

The barriers I've used have arrows pointing to the correct gate to go through (or a cross if they are set for the opposite direction and thus no entry from the side you're on).

I can’t think of a barrier on the NR network that doesn’t have that same green arrow.

 

[Mzzzs]

I have seen this before in central London it’s common problem with tourists.

 

[ianBR]

It was likely decided that the benefits didn’t meet the downsides, firstly a motion sensor at its very basic implementation would cost ~£50, and what if someone accidentally steps over it, leaving the gate open, leading to fare evasion.

I highly, highly doubt it’s a common problem that not only can someone not read the arrow, but they don’t notice the next door gate open as they put their ticket in.


I can’t think of a barrier on the NR network that doesn’t have that same green arrow.

But all the gates do have some sort of motion sensor just after the barrier - thats how they know how to close immediately after someone has passed through. You can't really avoid tripping it unless you crawl on the floor!

 

[bubieyehyeh]

I've seen tourists at gatwick airport trying to tap paper tickets on the yellow oyster/contactless reader.

 

[Haywain]

I've seen tourists at gatwick airport trying to tap paper tickets on the yellow oyster/contactless reader.

I've seen that at other stations but never seen anyone trying to use the 'wrong side'.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

wrong side of what?

 

[hexagon789]

wrong side of what?

Wrong side gate for the ticket slot presumably

 

[bubieyehyeh]

These tourists were trying to tap paper tickets on the yellow pad, on the ticket slot side of barrier, to leave railway side to get to airport.

The gate monitor seem disinterested in helping so I pointed out the ticket slots to them.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

I've seen that at other stations but never seen anyone trying to use the 'wrong side'.

I've seen people I know to be left-handed put the ticket in the wrong reader i.e. the one to the left, when slightly distracted (e.g. by a baby they're carrying). I think the problem with the design is that if someone is focussing on putting the ticket in the right place, the green arrow is too far away. And if there is row of gates with people queuing for each one, (a) it may not be easy to see the gate until you get to the front, and (b) it's not obvious if your ticket opens the wrong gate. On at least one occasion I've stepped through a gate which had just been opened by someone else's ticket before realising what had happened and trying to help the other passenger.

 

[Scott1]

But all the gates do have some sort of motion sensor just after the barrier - thats how they know how to close immediately after someone has passed through. You can't really avoid tripping it unless you crawl on the floor!

It has a time out because the sensors can fail to register the person passing through, usually this happens when several people pass thru quickly, it fails to count each person. So, after say 15 seconds, it will close.

 

[busestrains]

The ticket barriers at Brighton are the standard Cubic E2 ticket barriers and do indeed have arrows showing you which gate will open. But i guess if you are not paying attention it is easy to not notice the arrow. Especially if you are a tourist and not used to using them then it might be easier to make a mistake.

 

[Cantab26]

I've seen tourists at gatwick airport trying to tap paper tickets on the yellow oyster/contactless reader.

This is no doubt because many public transit systems have paper tickets where you tap to register usage. For example, the Glasgow subway and the buses in Poitiers use this method.

 

[Tunnel Bore]

I've seen tourists at gatwick airport trying to tap paper tickets on the yellow oyster/contactless reader.

I've seen this too and it's not as daft as it might at first seem. In other countries I've used paper card tickets with RFID embedded in them. The gates with QR reader, paper ticket read and smart-card reader can be confusing for the unfamiliar. There is so much going on and the tendency will be to copy the person who went through in front of you.

 

[Class172]

Roughly 90% of the world (according to google) is right-handed, so most gates would have the reader/whatever on the right by default. Off the top of my head I can’t think of any systems that have it on the left.

I was initially caught out on the Barcelona Metro last year, where the particular set of gates required me to put the ticket in on the left hand side. Later I helped out a couple of tourists who got very confused by the exact same problem. I’m not sure if the entire system is like it though.

 

[The exile]

The ticket barriers at Brighton are the standard Cubic E2 ticket barriers and do indeed have arrows showing you which gate will open. But i guess if you are not paying attention it is easy to not notice the arrow. Especially if you are a tourist and not used to using them then it might be easier to make a mistake.

Begs the question of why someone in an unfamiliar environment is NOT paying attention- surely their prime responsibility!

 

[DelW]

I had a similar problem once, coincidentally also at Brighton, when the gate line was very busy from a full arriving train. I was following close behind another passenger, put my ticket in but as I did so the person in front stopped dead immediately beyond the gate. By the time they moved (only a few seconds) it had closed again, leaving me the wrong side without my ticket. Fortunately I was able to show gate staff the return half of my day return and I was let through.

The OP's suggestion of the gate returning the ticket if no-one has passed through would have helped in my case, but might introduce other possibilities for misuse. Although having said that, some termini (e.g. Waterloo) have barriers that return all tickets, so misuse can't be that much of a concern. (I'm aware that in Waterloo's case it's to allow onward travel to Charing Cross or London Bridge).

 

[bengley]

I had a similar problem once, coincidentally also at Brighton, when the gate line was very busy from a full arriving train. I was following close behind another passenger, put my ticket in but as I did so the person in front stopped dead immediately beyond the gate. By the time they moved (only a few seconds) it had closed again, leaving me the wrong side without my ticket. Fortunately I was able to show gate staff the return half of my day return and I was let through.

The OP's suggestion of the gate returning the ticket if no-one has passed through would have helped in my case, but might introduce other possibilities for misuse. Although having said that, some termini (e.g. Waterloo) have barriers that return all tickets, so misuse can't be that much of a concern. (I'm aware that in Waterloo's case it's to allow onward travel to Charing Cross or London Bridge).

I'd have walked through and barged them out the way personally. Stopping in a stupid place should come with consequences.

 

[brad465]

I have talked about this before, but automatic gates seem to be having a number of problems recently, with some ticket slots not allowing tickets in, either because you try but it doesn't go in, or because they've covered it up and only permit cards. There also seems to be a lot more rejections of tickets, even if they're valid, possibly due to an issue but also to enforce a manual check on tickets that could be used by fare evaders (like child/certain railcards). A lot of this of course disrupts the flow of passengers and causes general frustration.

 

[eddp]

I was initially caught out on the Barcelona Metro last year, where the particular set of gates required me to put the ticket in on the left hand side. Later I helped out a couple of tourists who got very confused by the exact same problem. I’m not sure if the entire system is like it though.

On the Barcelona metro the older turnstile type ticket gates (as seen here) require the ticket to be put in on the left-hand side, the newer "portal" type gates (as seen here, image from trenscat.com) need the ticket to be put in on the right. The turnstile gates are being replaced with the rollout of the T-Mobilitat smartcard though, so in the near future likely all barriers will need the ticket on the right.

 

[Turtle]

I'd have walked through and barged them out the way personally. Stopping in a stupid place should come with consequences.

Agreed. I used to encounter a similar problem at the foot of the Victoria Line escalator at Victoria Station. Travellers, usually tourists, would pause, place their luggage on the ground, and look around for the signage. I was always expecting to read of some pile up disaster. Unfortunately the Victoria Line tube station was originally built on the cheap with insufficient escalators and circulation area at the base plus platforms which were too narrow.

 

[zwk500]

I'd have walked through and barged them out the way personally. Stopping in a stupid place should come with consequences.

Barging into somebody's back and sending them flying is equally likely to have the consequence for yourself of having to explain your actions to a BTP officer, who is unlikely to look kindly on a completely unprovoked assault in a crowd.

 

[Mag_seven]

I was initially caught out on the Barcelona Metro last year, where the particular set of gates required me to put the ticket in on the left hand side. Later I helped out a couple of tourists who got very confused by the exact same problem. I’m not sure if the entire system is like it though.

Its similar on the Sofia Metro.

 

[bengley]

Barging into somebody's back and sending them flying is equally likely to have the consequence for yourself of having to explain your actions to a BTP officer, who is unlikely to look kindly on a completely unprovoked assault in a crowd.

I'm not sure I said I'd send them flying. That would be a bit unnecessary.

 

[Class800]

I'm not sure I said I'd send them flying. That would be a bit unnecessary.

BTP didn't seem to care last time someone barged me in a tube gateline area - when staff were hard to find and the gates had not been updated with regard to engineering specific ticket acceptance. I of course would prefer a polite world, like the Britain I once knew, but it has gone.

 

[zwk500]

I'm not sure I said I'd send them flying. That would be a bit unnecessary.

You need to move somebody forward by at least a 1m to clear the gateline. If you shove somebody in the back when they're not expecting it with sufficient force to move them 1m you won't be able to tell if they'll keep their feet or not.

A gruff 'excuse me' usually works absolutely fine, although I do have the advantage of being 6' tall and having a rather deep voice.

 

[RPI]

Last week I witnessed a tourist arriving in Brighton who had put her ticket into the gate but was standing looking confused and waiting for the gate to the right to open (rather than the one to the left which was now open). Hope that makes sense!

However before I had chance to help her, the gate which was had been open then closed (presumably after a certain amount of time had passed).

The poor girl then had to go join a giant queue waiting to get through the manned barrier..... and no doubt in the worst case scenario would then be penalty fared for not having a ticket as I'm quite sure she'd struggle to know which of the 20+ gates her ticket was retained by.



This got me thinking....

1) Why do the gates close if no-one has passed through. At the very least surely they should then return the ticket rather than retaining it if they are going to close without the passenger exiting.

2) Why aren't there some obvious arrows (as I've seen used in Europe) so its more clear to tourists which gate the ticket slot is linked to.

There are big light up green arrows on the stanchion pointing to which side is opened?

 

[YorksLad12]

I have talked about this before, but automatic gates seem to be having a number of problems recently, with some ticket slots not allowing tickets in, either because you try but it doesn't go in, or because they've covered it up and only permit cards. There also seems to be a lot more rejections of tickets, even if they're valid, possibly due to an issue but also to enforce a manual check on tickets that could be used by fare evaders (like child/certain railcards). A lot of this of course disrupts the flow of passengers and causes general frustration.

Or worse - not covered it up. This happened to me pre-pandemic, at Kings Cross Main Line, arriving from Leeds and trying to stick a paper ticket through only to get it rejected - at which point you look at the screen and see the dark-grey-on-light-grey words that this gate is for cards and e-tickets. Poor signage is one of things that drives me loopy (poor-quality travel information in general being the other - a story for another thread).