ATW stakeholder report/last period.

[trainophile]

It's not in the franchise agreement the Arriva answer for everything!

Point taken - I was just having a little rant . However it does seem that ATW currently have insufficient capacity on many of their routes for the numbers of people wishing to travel. I know passenger numbers have increased almost everywhere, and rolling stock availability is finite, but ongoing surely this needs to be addressed.

I suppose, compared with some operators, we should be grateful that we can generally get a seat on off-peak weekday trains, even if weekends and peak times are something of a scrum (no pun intended). At least those of us lucky enough to be able to choose when we travel can get to know the least crowded days and times to do so.

[/rant]

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Point taken - I was just having a little rant . However it does seem that ATW currently have insufficient capacity on many of their routes for the numbers of people wishing to travel.

[rant]At least, whilst the matter of insufficiant capacity is there as a problem, you are not in the same laughable situation on the proposed new Blackburn-Copy Pit Line-Manchester service due to start early in 2014, where the new Todmorden Chord will be fully installed, the Holme tunnel fully refurbished...and NO STOCK to run the service..[/rant]

 

[trainophile]

As at 09.30 this morning there are 18 'Other Train Service Updates' on the ATW Journey Planner. (Won't let me post a shortened link for some reason.)

It's almost becoming a joke, but obviously not if you're affected .

Edited to add that all but two appear to be due to "a train fault", which doesn't inspire much confidence does it? The other two are "a signalling problem" so I'll let them off those.

 

[merlodlliw]

As at 09.30 this morning there are 18 'Other Train Service Updates' on the ATW Journey Planner. (Won't let me post a shortened link for some reason.)

It's almost becoming a joke, but obviously not if you're affected .

Edited to add that all but two appear to be due to "a train fault", which doesn't inspire much confidence does it? The other two are "a signalling problem" so I'll let them off those.

I advised SWMBO to catch Gerald from Wrexham this morning, she has a WG meeting in Cardiff at 1030, Gerald arriving Cardiff 18 late,(1016):cry:
First snow of the Winter up here,two inches fell overnight.

 

[tbtc]

it does seem that ATW currently have insufficient capacity on many of their routes for the numbers of people wishing to travel. I know passenger numbers have increased almost everywhere, and rolling stock availability is finite

...and yet we see complaints that they aren't selling lots of cheap tickets for pensioners (and what discount tickets are available are restricted to some off-peak services).

They can't win!

 

[Squaddie]

At least, whilst the matter of insufficiant capacity is there as a problem, you are not in the same laughable situation on the proposed new Blackburn-Copy Pit Line-Manchester service due to start early in 2014, where the new Todmorden Chord will be fully installed, the Holme tunnel fully refurbished...and NO STOCK to run the service..

I firmly believe that spending, say, £10bn on new rolling stock and extending every train in the country to the maximum length that can be accommodated at the stations they serve would improve the travelling experiences of far more people than blowing £80bn on a high-speed line that will shave 20 minutes off an intercity journey.

 

[tbtc]

I firmly believe that spending, say, £10bn on new rolling stock and extending every train in the country to the maximum length that can be accommodated at the stations they serve would improve the travelling experiences of far more people than blowing £80bn on a high-speed line that will shave 20 minutes off an intercity journey.

Please, not the "shaving twenty minutes" argument again... there's an HS2 thread for that, if we have to go over old ground.

 

[6Gman]

Please, not the "shaving twenty minutes" argument again... there's an HS2 thread for that, if we have to go over old ground.

Hear, hear ....




.... and it's not £80bn!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

...and yet we see complaints that they aren't selling lots of cheap tickets for pensioners (and what discount tickets are available are restricted to some off-peak services). They can't win!

Hey...stop getting at "pensioners" and using them as a tool to reinforce a point of view..

We are human beings deserving of dignity being accorded.

 

[tbtc]

Hey...stop getting at "pensioners" and using them as a tool to reinforce a point of view..

We are human beings deserving of dignity being accorded.

How am I stripping anyone of dignity?

I'm just trying to point out that the complaints about lack of cheap "Club 55" tickets (and restrictions on the number of services that these cheap tickets can be used on) should be taken alongside complaints about many ATW services being rather busy.

If there's insufficient capacity on many services then surely that explains the fact that those over 55 can't travel from one end of Wales to the other for just £15 (and that there the seats available are generally off-peak)?

(or am I the only one who sees this connection?)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How am I stripping anyone of dignity?

I'm just trying to point out that the complaints about lack of cheap "Club 55" tickets (and restrictions on the number of services that these cheap tickets can be used on) should be taken alongside complaints about many ATW services being rather busy.

If there's insufficient capacity on many services then surely that explains the fact that those over 55 can't travel from one end of Wales to the other for just £15 (and that there the seats available are generally off-peak)?

(or am I the only one who sees this connection?)

Why confuse matters with the matter of 55 year old rail passengers by describing them as "pensioners" when they may be in full-time employment and not old enough to be in receipt of a "pension" for quite some years to come.

 

[Squaddie]

Please, not the "shaving twenty minutes" argument again... there's an HS2 thread for that, if we have to go over old ground.

I'm not expecting anyone to go over "old ground" (which is a term usually used only by those who feel they might be losing an argument), nor do I want to. I was merely expressing an opinion which, I think, was relevant to the discussion that had gone immediately before.

 

[tbtc]

Why confuse matters with the matter of 55 year old rail passengers by describing them as "pensioners" when they may be in full-time employment and not old enough to be in receipt of a "pension" for quite some years to come.

Anyone over age 55 may claim an occupational pension (early retirement was previously allowed from 50 but changed a few years ago).

I'm not sure how I've stripped anyone of their "dignity" though (?).

The point remains - is it a bad thing that AWT have not allowed £15 Club 55 tickets at peak time, when they are short of capacity?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Anyone over age 55 may claim an occupational pension (early retirement was previously allowed from 50 but changed a few years ago).I'm not sure how I've stripped anyone of their "dignity" though (?).

1)...There is a whole world of difference in the "may claim" used in your quote and "do claim" in the 55 year age group discussed. What percentage of these 55 year old age group actually claim an occupational pension.

2)...One can be describe as the stripping of dignity of "pensioners" by sarcastically naming them an age group that appear to be all "tarred with the same brush" to make a point that this groupage are there to cause an imbalance in the seat availability of rail services at certain times of the day.

Obviously, I am at the age of 68 one of the class who does claim pensionable rights, but I would draw your attention that the monies that I have spent on rail travel in Britain in my working life from 1966 onwards to my retirement in 2010 at the age of 65 is most certainly an amount that many forum members will take very many years to match. Obviously, there will be those who will disregard that amount of rail travel money expanded and only look to "pensioner rail travel" as a necessary evil to be borne by other rail travellers, irrespective of the fact that it is TOC such as ATW, First ScotRail and First TPE who have launched such offers. I am sure that no "pensioner" groupage force these TOC to make such offers. Should the "pensioner" groupage all refuse to take advantage of these offers ?

 

[merlodlliw]

As it will noticeably start to go dusk up here in half an hour,my excuse for putting my thoughts about ATW club 55, before I go out feeding animals.

My contacts tell me this Autumns Club 55 with its restrictions was very much a last minute prompt from ATW,booking offices were only told on the day it occurred, I agree most trains are full & standing,except the 0945 off Wrexham to Cardiff which runs almost empty between Shrewsbury & Newport & a few middle morning services going the other way.

ATW started Club 55 to fill seats, now its all changed, after May 2014 timetable it will be all over in my opinion.

Ill steer clear of Paul & TBTC at the moment

 

[tbtc]

1)...There is a whole world of difference in the "may claim" used in your quote and "do claim" in the 55 year age group discussed. What percentage of these 55 year old age group actually claim an occupational pension.

2)...One can be describe as the stripping of dignity of "pensioners" by sarcastically naming them an age group that appear to be all "tarred with the same brush" to make a point that this groupage are there to cause an imbalance in the seat availability of rail services at certain times of the day.

Obviously, I am at the age of 68 one of the class who does claim pensionable rights, but I would draw your attention that the monies that I have spent on rail travel in Britain in my working life from 1966 onwards to my retirement in 2010 at the age of 65 is most certainly an amount that many forum members will take very many years to match. Obviously, there will be those who will disregard that amount of rail travel money expanded and only look to "pensioner rail travel" as a necessary evil to be borne by other rail travellers, irrespective of the fact that it is TOC such as ATW, First ScotRail and First TPE who have launched such offers. I am sure that no "pensioner" groupage force these TOC to make such offers. Should the "pensioner" groupage all refuse to take advantage of these offers ?

Paul,

You seem to be inferring a lot of things that weren't there... was I being "sarcastic" when I referred to "pensioners"? I didn't mean it sarcastically, if that's any help.

I don't think that "pensioner" is a term with negative connotations - are we to be banned from using it in these politically correct times? Is "groupage" an approved term, or am I going to upset someone else if I use it? Who was I tarring, and with what brush? When did I mention "necessary evils"?

I presume that you are seeking some kind of argument here, but you are looking for offence where none was intended...

...and I've still not had an answer regarding why there are all of the complaints about the changes to Club 55 when people are also complaining of how busy ATW services are.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

My apologies if our exchange of postings has suggested anything untowards, as no offence was intended. My penchant for pedantry sometimes tends to find avenues best left alone.

Groupage...a consolidation of a group.