ATW Services

[Jez]

The Manchester trains are always busier than the Holyhead ones plus the set you mention forms the 1830 off Piccadilly which can be very busy

I realise that but as they are both booked 2 car there was no real reason for the swap. Unless there was a fault on the 2 car and they needed to get it to Chester so running it as the 1521 from Cardiff.

I have often caught the 1830 off Manchester, particularly on a Friday and it is very busy from Manchester-Shrewsbury and again from Cardiff onwards. It is booked 2 car.

 

[SprinterMan]

Seems Gerald is visiting Blaenau Festiniog tommorow on a guaging/proving run 5Z40 (1108 ex Holyhead) according to a post on Wnxx.

Dont know whether or not it is true but worth keeping a look out for if you are in the area

That does appear to be going ahead

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/V92805/2013/09/08/advanced

 

[M60lad]

Is there a reason why ATW services aren't running to Chester today? I know in the past when there's been engineering works in Manchester area like there is today that they've run non-stop from Manchester Piccadilly-Chester via Northwich line but for some reason their not doing today

 

[animationmilo]

I realise that but as they are both booked 2 car there was no real reason for the swap. Unless there was a fault on the 2 car and they needed to get it to Chester so running it as the 1521 from Cardiff.

I have often caught the 1830 off Manchester, particularly on a Friday and it is very busy from Manchester-Shrewsbury and again from Cardiff onwards. It is booked 2 car.

I have noticed on a Saturday recently that this 18:30 from Manchester seems to be a 3 car 175. Maybe they like to use a 3 car on a saturday

Saturday 27 July it was 175113 on 18:30 from Manchester
24 August aswell it was 3 car

 

[Rhydgaled]

When first introduced, the train was named after "Gerald of Wales" [Gerallt Gymro].

I think the direct translation of 'Y Gerallt Gymro' is actually 'Gerald The Welshman'. 'Wales' would be 'Gymru' not 'Gymro' I believe. Not that I can communicate in Welsh, just what my grandmother said when I asked her to translate (actually, she thinks the headboard might have been wrong and that 'Gerald The Welshman' should have been 'Y Gerallt Cymro', she didn't sound too sure about that though).

I wonder what happened to the headboard, one rumour I've read was that somebody stole it off the 57 one night at Holyhead. No idea if that's true.

 

[PHILIPE]

I cant see a Cardiff-Manchester loco-hauled service.

It would be good though - calling at just Newport, Abergavenny, Hereford, Shrewsbury, Crewe, Stockport and Manchester Piccadilly.

Todays 1400 Swansea-Manchester Piccadilly Service, 2 car 175 as booked, was terminated short at Cardiff and replaced by a 3 car 175 for the onward journey to Manchester. This was announced on the screens when I was waiting for the train at Port Talbot Parkway (1418 from Port Talbot) saying please change at Cardiff, this train will then form the 1521 Holyhead. I wonder why they didnt just use the 3 car 175 they had at Cardiff for the Holyhead and run the 2 car through to Manchester as planned, they are both booked 2 car, so whichever the 3 car went onto it would be as broad as its long surely? Nice of them to inform passengers on the screens tho esp saying this set would be the 1521 Holyhead. The guard just announced the train would terminate at Cardiff and to listen for announcements if continuing onwards for stations to Manchester. There was announcements over the tannoy telling passengers the train at the front of Platform 2 was the 1455 to Manchester whilst the terminating train at the rear of Platform 2 was not for public use.

I noticed today the Bridgend -Vale of Glamorgan services are now running through to Ebbw Vale!? Platform 2 was being used for the Ebbw Vale trains today as I dont think Platform 0 can use trains which are in service or terminating, just ones starting at Cardiff. There were 2 153s used to strenghen Ebbw Vale Services so if one was on the bay and 2 on City Line cant have been many left for elsewhere.

There were no 153s on the Bay or Corytons because there was no service on these lines due to Engineering Work which has been well documented on the Forum anyway.
You won't have Loco Hauled trains now on Franchised services except under certain extenuating circumstances. They are consigned to history.

 

[Welshman]

I think the direct translation of 'Y Gerallt Gymro' is actually 'Gerald The Welshman'. 'Wales' would be 'Gymru' not 'Gymro' I believe. Not that I can communicate in Welsh, just what my grandmother said when I asked her to translate (actually, she thinks the headboard might have been wrong and that 'Gerald The Welshman' should have been 'Y Gerallt Cymro', she didn't sound too sure about that though).

I wonder what happened to the headboard, one rumour I've read was that somebody stole it off the 57 one night at Holyhead. No idea if that's true.

Thank-you for that correction.
I do have Welsh blood on my Father's side [hence my forum name]. But he was born in Gorseinon and didn't speak a word of the language, and I've been struggling with it since taking early retirement here 3 years ago!

You raise an interesting question re the headboard. I note that ATW also seems to have dropped the name in its publicity - perhaps they were embarrassed about its inaccuracy.

 

[Starmill]

I have heard a couple of rumours about potential future Arriva services and was wondering how likely you guys think they are:

1. Arriva are currently trying to source a second catering crew so they can run a Manchester to Cardiff breakfast service and Cardiff to Manchester dinner service using the spare loco-hauled set. The set will overnight at Chester, running to and from Manchester ECS via the mid-cheshire line so it can use the terminal platforms at Piccadilly.

2. Once the Northern hub project is finished, current Llandudno to Manchester Piccadilly services will be diverted to run to Stalybridge via Manchester Victoria.

3. Once the Northern hub project is finished, current Llandudno to Manchester Piccadilly services will be extended through to Manchester Airport.

4. Once the Northern hub project is finished, the new TransPennine Express York to Manchester Airport stopper will be diverted to run to Chester, running fast between Warrington Bank Quay and Chester, to give half-hourly trains between Manchester and Chester via Warrington.

5. The WAG express will soon cease running as the government are no longer keen on funding it, especially if the upcoming timetable change does not increase passenger numbers in 1st class. If this does happen, the stock will likely go to Chiltern.

I know not all of these are new, and not all of them are likely, but these are all things I have heard recently from sources other than this forum so I was wondering which ones do you consider to be more likely than others. 1 seems more like a pipe dream than anything else, and 2 & 3 cannot both happen (obviously :P ).

Adam

4 sounds good... but... well it will probably be complicated! I've often looked at Manchester to Chester alongside Manchester to Sheffield and Liverpool with 2 express trains an hour and Leeds with 4 (soon to be 5!) what appear to be less significant places like Stoke on Trent, Crewe and Preston have more trains per hour too (we really cannot count the Mid Cheshire line).

 

[Squaddie]

I think the direct translation of 'Y Gerallt Gymro' is actually 'Gerald The Welshman'.

That's absolutely correct, but the direct translation is not always the most appropriate one. "Gerallt Gymro" is commonly known as "Gerald of Wales" in English, as neither "Gerald Welshman" nor "Welsh Gerald" sound right.

As for the mutation of Gymro - the grammatical explanation is that a noun always mutates when used in apposition (i.e. when it is used to describe another noun). Thus, the noun Cymro (Welshman) will mutate to Gymro.

Other examples are Arthur Frenin (King Arthur) and ni ddynion (we men).

[/grammar lesson]

 

[Rhydgaled]

neither "Gerald Welshman" nor "Welsh Gerald" sound right.

True, but 'Gerald the Welshman' does sound right, and the headboard certainly had a 'Y' (which I think is Welsh for 'the').

As for the mutation of Gymro - the grammatical explanation is that a noun always mutates when used in apposition (i.e. when it is used to describe another noun). Thus, the noun Cymro (Welshman) will mutate to Gymro.

I think my grandmother's query was whether a noun always mutates when it is used to describe any other noun or whether it only mutates when the noun it is describing is a female noun?

Anyway, back to trains. Nobody picked up on my query of whether use of 67s + Mrk3s on Manchester services could be a plan for use of the stock if the contract for 'Y Gerallt Gymro' is not renewed. Chiltern might be able to make use of the 67s but the coaches and DVTs used by ATW are refurbished to a different standard.

 

[Squaddie]

True, but 'Gerald the Welshman' does sound right, and the headboard certainly had a 'Y' (which I think is Welsh for 'the').

The 'Y' would only be there because it's the name of a train - The Gerald of Wales. The chap's name is simply Gerallt Gymro.

I think my grandmother's query was whether a noun always mutates when it is used to describe any other noun or whether it only mutates when the noun it is describing is a female noun?

It's a bit complicated, but if the noun is used in apposition (i.e. it defines the first noun) then it always mutates, even with a masculine noun or proper name, but when it is used attributively (i.e it describes the first noun) then it only mutates after feminine singular nouns.

In the phrase Gerallt Gymro (Gerald the Welshman), the word Cymro (Welshman) defines Gerallt and thus mutates to Gymro.

However, in the phrase cwrw casgen (draught beer) the noun casgen (cask) describes the beer and thus does not mutate after cwrw, which is a masculine noun.

Most native Welsh speakers will only really know what "sounds" right, without being able to explain why it's right, just as native English speakers know that the subjunctive form of a verb sometimes sounds correct even if they don't know what the subjunctive is.

But this is going way beyond the subject of Arriva Trains Wales!

If you're interested, you can read more here. Look for the section entitled "Rules governing the use of the mutations", sub-sections A1j and A1k.

 

[PHILIPE]

I realise that but as they are both booked 2 car there was no real reason for the swap. Unless there was a fault on the 2 car and they needed to get it to Chester so running it as the 1521 from Cardiff.

I have often caught the 1830 off Manchester, particularly on a Friday and it is very busy from Manchester-Shrewsbury and again from Cardiff onwards. It is booked 2 car.

The probable reason for the swap would have been that the 18 30 Manchester finishes at Carmarthen and had insufficient fuel to be allocated to any diagram from there the following day. Swaps often happen for such a reason or to get onto a Diagram to finish at Home Depot if required for Maintenance in line with maintenance schedules.

 

[trainophile]

I've just noticed, to my dismay, that there is no longer a weekday 1330 out of Manchester Piccadilly to South Wales. Or a 1630 for that matter. Is this a new reduction to the schedules? I thought there has traditionally been an hourly service. Pretty sure I caught a 1708 ex-Crewe a few weeks ago, as missed the 1608 due to London Midland LIV-BHM cancellation. That won't be an option in future by the look of it .

I have a stack of Advances incorporating the 1508 ex-Crewe, which will now presumably be rammed as it's the first direct train in two hours. I hope they don't put two-coach sets on this one, it's bad enough when they do that and there's hourly services.

Also we'd hoped to catch the (now non-existent) 1408 from Crewe (to HFD) in October on return from Edinburgh. Will have to wait around at Crewe for over an hour now. (Be too late back to collect the cat from the cattery too, so he'll have to have an extra night .)

Just had a further look and they've really messed it about haven't they? First direct of the day (apart from 0630) from MAN to Craven Arms appears to be the 1530. What's behind all this?

 

[PHILIPE]

Don't kmow where youv'e got this from. Completely untrue. Sometimes errors (human or technical) occur in processing in system.

 

[trainophile]

Don't kmow where youv'e got this from. Completely untrue. Sometimes errors (human or technical) occur in processing in system.

Oh! I'm taking my info from the eastcoast booking engine. Queried on a few weekdays both this month and next, and found the same on all. I'll try a different one then. Hope you're right.

Edit: Same results on ATW's own site so not sure why you believe these findings are incorrect.

 

[SprinterMan]

Oh! I'm taking my info from the eastcoast booking engine. Queried on a few weekdays both this month and next, and found the same on all. I'll try a different one then. Hope you're right.

Edit: Same results on ATW's own site so not sure why you believe these findings are incorrect.

It will be a fault with the booking engine, both trains still run:
1V44 1330 Manchester Piccadilly to Tenby
1V54 1630 Manchester Piccadilly to Milford Haven

Adam

 

[Starmill]

I think he's right you know. I don't see how ATW could just bin the 13:30 - although RTT concludes the same way.

 

[trainophile]

Thanks both, that's reassuring. Not sure what RTT is?

Will just have to wait and see nearer the time then.

 

[DaveHarries]

When first introduced, the train was named after "Gerald of Wales" [Gerallt Gymro].

He was a 12/13c archdeacon of Brecon and also an intrepid traveller through Wales, chronicling its life and times.

Hence the name for a North-South service.

Diolch boyo. I have only just come across this thread and was about to post asking why the name Gerald was used. Don't need to now though. And don't worry: I don't speak Welsh but I like the sound of the lingo and I like the accent as well. There is also Welsh on my father's side: his Father was born at Cwm, nr. Ebbw Vale. [/history lesson]

Dave

 

[trainophile]

Thanks both, that's reassuring. Not sure what RTT is?

Will just have to wait and see nearer the time then.

Real Train Times? So that's saying those services no longer exist too?

 

[PHILIPE]

Both trains were Right Time throughout today. Info from Real Time Trains.
Don't worry. They do run as already stated.

 

[Starmill]

My apologies; yes it is Realtime Trains. I've sampled the 7th Dec and yes it is showing far fewer trains, as shown below.


Hope I've not missed anything?

Not that I think they won't be running... at least not on a permanent basis. Perhaps engineering work or something? Or more likely just a fault in the schedule? They are all still shown for the next couple of weeks, so they might magically appear closer to the time. Worrying if no Advance tickets are on sale though?

 

[trainophile]

13.30 and 15.30 missing on that screen grab shot.

I think he's right you know. I don't see how ATW could just bin the 14:30 - although RTT concludes the same way.

I think we got at cross purposes somewhere - I didn't say the 1430 had disappeared, just the 1330 and 1630.

Edit: Haha you were editing yours to add points while I was typing mine. Yes indeed, worrying it is. I might have to ask ATW what's going on - that would be the best idea wouldn't it?

 

[Starmill]

13.30 and 15.30 missing on that screen grab shot.



I think we got at cross purposes somewhere - I didn't say the 1430 had disappeared, just the 1330 and 1630.

Just spotted that too - typo by me, soz! Edited.

Edit: I really do need to increase my level of proofreading before pressing post, rather than post and THEN check it!

Further edit: as to that screenshot, the 15:30 is there... but the 08:30, 10:30, 13:30 and 16:30 are missing!

 

[trainophile]

I'm keeping my eye on you to see when you get your Established Member status - still waiting for mine . Do we have to apply?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Further edit: as to that screenshot, the 15:30 is there... but the 08:30, 10:30, 13:30 and 16:30 are missing!

My typo that time, I meant the 1630 not 1530. Doh!

 

[Starmill]

I'm keeping my eye on you to see when you get your Established Member status - still waiting for mine . Do we have to apply?

Oh you've just reminded me I got my 1000th post earlier! Darn now I don't know which one it was I've gotten so carried away! Ugh!

As to 'Established Member' status...

I think there's a few of us in a similar situation! IanD - Myths Thread

 

[trainophile]

Oh I see . Obviously it depends on the quality of your posts as well as the quantity! That counts me out for the next decade or two then .

 

[Starmill]

Oh I see . Obviously it depends on the quality of your posts as well as the quantity! That counts me out for the next decade or two then .

Oh mee too, I mean the contents of this thread are testament to that!

 

[trainophile]

Oh mee too, I mean the contents of this thread are testament to that!

Well I've enjoyed reading your posts, it's brightened up my evening no end . Now, serious face on... how on earth can we get this thread back onto railway matters?

 

[Starmill]

Well I've enjoyed reading your posts, it's brightened up my evening no end . Now, serious face on... how on earth can we get this thread back onto railway matters?

Oh, the feeling's mutual trainophile Sadly I think our bamboozling bilateral babbling has driven everyone else away from this thread! It's dead!