ATW Premier Service

[kieron]

David Jones is MP for Clwyd West actually (my MP), despite being east of the Clwyd!

I'm confused. David Jones lives in Rhôs-on-Sea, not that far east of the Conwy.

So, if he knows about the north Wales rail suituation, is he developing plans to reduce the amount of traffic that reverses at Chester to use the futher-down-the-electrification-list Marches line?

I doubt it. As far as I can tell, the Welsh Office is responsible neither for rail planning in Wales (that would be the DfT) or for the passenger franchise (that would be the WAG). As such, timetables will always be someone else's responsibility.

In any case, I think it would make more sense to divert the Llandudno-Manchester trains to Crewe, as both reach Chester just before the hour and I haven't seen anything to suggest there are plans to electrify Chester-Warrington.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm confused. David Jones lives in Rhôs-on-Sea, not that far east of the Conwy.

I doubt it. As far as I can tell, the Welsh Office is responsible neither for rail planning in Wales (that would be the DfT) or for the passenger franchise (that would be the WAG). As such, timetables will always be someone else's responsibility.

In any case, I think it would make more sense to divert the Llandudno-Manchester trains to Crewe, as both reach Chester just before the hour and I haven't seen anything to suggest there are plans to electrify Chester-Warrington.

As you can see from this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clwyd_West_(UK_Parliament_constituency),
Clwyd West is an odd shape and curls round to the south and east to include the upper Alyn valley part of Denbighshire (where I happen to live).

I think the Welsh Office will have a significant role in redefining the rail responsibilities of DfT and WG for the next franchise, and any strategic investment such as electrification.
We can all argue about service patterns, but electrification of the North Wales main line only makes sense if you do Chester-Crewe and Chester-Warrington as well.
Then we can have electric services to Manchester, Birmingham and London, even to Liverpool with a bit of ingenuity.
Did I leave somewhere out? Oh yes, Cardiff.

 

[merlodlliw]

I'm confused. David Jones lives in Rhôs-on-Sea, not that far east of the Conwy.

I doubt it. As far as I can tell, the Welsh Office is responsible neither for rail planning in Wales (that would be the DfT) or for the passenger franchise (that would be the WAG). As such, timetables will always be someone else's responsibility.

In any case, I think it would make more sense to divert the Llandudno-Manchester trains to Crewe, as both reach Chester just before the hour and I haven't seen anything to suggest there are plans to electrify Chester-Warrington.

David Jones Constituency Clwyd West Spans a great distance and Borders to my home which is in the County Of Wrexham, I vote in Clwyd South. Map here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ClwydWest2007Constituency.svg

 

[kieron]

As you can see from this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clwyd_West_(UK_Parliament_constituency),
Clwyd West is an odd shape and curls round to the south and east to include the upper Alyn valley part of Denbighshire (where I happen to live).

I know. I just thought it amusing that the MP lives about as far west as he could without leaving the constituency. And more than 3/4 of the electorate do live in the coastal strip west of the Clwyd.

I think the Welsh Office will have a significant role in redefining the rail responsibilities of DfT and WG for the next franchise, and any strategic investment such as electrification.

The Welsh Office's default role in this is to liaise between the WAG and

We can all argue about service patterns, but electrification of the North Wales main line only makes sense if you do Chester-Crewe and Chester-Warrington as well.

It's possible, but you could replace lots of Voyagers if you simply electrify Crewe-Holyhead, as stated.

I wouldn't really like to suggest a service pattern for electrification when I don't even know what will happen when the Shrewsbury-Wrexham-Chester upgrade is finished.

Then we can have electric services to Manchester, Birmingham and London, even to Liverpool with a bit of ingenuity.

Rhyl to Liverpool via Earlestown? I don't quite see it myself.

Did I leave somewhere out? Oh yes, Cardiff.

I doubt Ian Lucas would see it quite that way.

 

[merlodlliw]

I know. I just thought it amusing that the MP lives about as far west as he could without leaving the constituency. And more than 3/4 of the electorate do live in the coastal strip west of the Clwyd

.

Beaten by a minute with the map ah well slow internet speed in the hills.

Its a strange Consituency for both AM & MP,my neighbour with the same post code(LL11.UL) as me , is the most distant this way for David Jones patch,5 miles from Wrexham General, I have a field at the back of my home that is half in Clwyd West & the other half in Clwyd South.

Not had it confirmed yet, whether a 175 is on duty 27/28 December as rumoured, if Gerald did run on these dates, it would be most certainly fresh air pax from Cardiff on those dates.

Bob

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Rhyl to Liverpool via Earlestown? I don't quite see it myself.

No I meant some way of reaching Liverpool directly from Chester to provide through trains.
Dual voltage trains could reverse at Chester and use the Merseyrail loop.
But that would not suit Merseytravel's metro ideology, and the concession idea works against it.

 

[Chester025]

The 0807 Holyhead - Cardiff & 1819 return are booked for the WAG set this Saturday (01/12)

 

[Penmorfa]

No I meant some way of reaching Liverpool directly from Chester to provide through trains.
Dual voltage trains could reverse at Chester and use the Merseyrail loop.
But that would not suit Merseytravel's metro ideology, and the concession idea works against it.

I would keep Merseyrail as a self contained system - it works fine the way it is. Having trains from a lot further afield could upset the stability of the system. Four trains an hour from Chester to Liverpool means any passenger from North Wales knows they won't have to wait long in Chester.
When Chester - Warrington is wired then a service via the Halton curve would seem to be the best solution.

 

[merlodlliw]

The 0807 Holyhead - Cardiff & 1819 return are booked for the WAG set this Saturday (01/12)

For the Rugby, not seen any ads here,is it via Crewe or Wrexham?

 

[Chester025]

For the Rugby, not seen any ads here,is it via Crewe or Wrexham?

Crewe both ways.

 

[merlodlliw]

Crewe both ways.

That means no pax on the up then,mind you if no one knows its running outside of ATW, is it a relief up to Hereford on the return.

 

[Chester025]

That means no pax on the up then,mind you if no one knows its running outside of ATW, is it a relief up to Hereford on the return.

To be fair the times have been on National Rail Enquiries since Tuesday.

 

[merlodlliw]

To be fair the times have been on National Rail Enquiries since Tuesday.

But the majority over 95%, do not look at nat rail for day excursions to Cardiff in my opinion. A poster at the Station or a media par in the local paper would gain pax,

 

[Chester025]

It seems to have gone unoticed that 67003 worked to Carmarthen on Tuesday 27th. Phot here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/batman79/8231345866/

Any further gen on why and what it returned on?

 

[PHILIPE]

To be fair the times have been on National Rail Enquiries since Tuesday.

It is no use just being on NRES> People have got to know it is a train specifally for the Rugby otherwise they will select the service with the times most convenient to them and finish up overcrowding a regular service and leaving the special with few passengers. This should be pointed out to ATW

 

[merlodlliw]

It seems to have gone unoticed that 67003 worked to Carmarthen on Tuesday 27th. Phot here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/batman79/8231345866/

Any further gen on why and what it returned on?

#

Excellent use of the stock, who was the driver I wonder with the experience of the line to Carmarthen with 67/DVT . Good to see it being used for pax.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It is no use just being on NRES> People have got to know it is a train specifally for the Rugby otherwise they will select the service with the times most convenient to them and finish up overcrowding a regular service and leaving the special with few passengers. This should be pointed out to ATW

my thoughts as well, ATW know about the lack of publicity on the up,In my opinion its used as a relief to clear Cardiff of pax up to Hereford.

 

[SprinterMan]

Excellent use of the stock, who was the driver I wonder with the experience of the line to Carmarthen with 67/DVT . Good to see it being used for pax.

my thoughts as well, ATW know about the lack of publicity on the up,In my opinion its used as a relief to clear Cardiff of pax up to Hereford.

They seem to be using the new WAG set alot more for extras than they did the old one, is there any reason for this?

Adam

 

[merlodlliw]

They seem to be using the new WAG set alot more for extras than they did the old one, is there any reason for this?

Adam

The Carmarthen run is the first I have heard of, Rugexs were used before Mark3s
I have no idea why, but the flooding probably was a reason, if stock was trapped elsewhere. it is excellent to see the stock out of Canton & in use.
Contact with WG Rail Unit,will have been sought I am sure.

 

[Rhydgaled]

The Carmarthen run is the first I have heard of, Rugexs were used before Mark3s
I have no idea why, but the flooding probably was a reason, if stock was trapped elsewhere. it is excellent to see the stock out of Canton & in use.
Contact with WG Rail Unit,will have been sought I am sure.

I expect use of the mark2s, other than on the old Gerald, would involve some problems.

• Cambrian - Birmingham - Holyhead curciut is a no-no due to split/join and ERTMS
• Manchester - Milford/Carmarthen is difficult due to reversal at Swansea (solvable with DBSOs or top&tail 37s)
• The same applies to Holyhead - Cardiff also due to reversal at Chester

That only leaves only of ATW's regional express service groups, Manchester - Llandudno and that doesn't get the stock to Canton for servicing. I would think mark2 stock needs a regular diagram to justify the necessary work on DBSOs or availablity of 37s for top&tail.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I expect use of the mark2s, other than on the old Gerald, would involve some problems.

• Cambrian - Birmingham - Holyhead curciut is a no-no due to split/join and ERTMS
• Manchester - Milford/Carmarthen is difficult due to reversal at Swansea (solvable with DBSOs or top&tail 37s)
• The same applies to Holyhead - Cardiff also due to reversal at Chester

That only leaves only of ATW's regional express service groups, Manchester - Llandudno and that doesn't get the stock to Canton for servicing. I would think mark2 stock needs a regular diagram to justify the necessary work on DBSOs or availablity of 37s for top&tail.

Zero will/desire to do anything with it unfortunately- Franchise agreement says diddly squat "lock down for 6 years" unless WG pays for anything.

 

[SprinterMan]

During the week, does the WAG normally run with 4 TSO coaches like in this photo?
http://www.nwrail.org.uk/jb121124-dvt-colbay.jpg
Adam

 

[merlodlliw]

During the week, does the WAG normally run with 4 TSO coaches like in this photo?
http://www.nwrail.org.uk/jb121124-dvt-colbay.jpg
Adam

No, three standard & one little used first/dinner,


Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Zero will/desire to do anything with it unfortunately- Franchise agreement says diddly squat "lock down for 6 years" unless WG pays for anything.

I don't see the mark 2s in use again with ATW, unless as you say WG pays & they are cash strapped.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, three standard & one little used first/dinner,


Bob

The picture shows five carriages, four of which are TSOs.There's an extra standard class carriage there.

 

[67012]

I expect use of the mark2s, other than on the old Gerald, would involve some problems.

• Cambrian - Birmingham - Holyhead curciut is a no-no due to split/join and ERTMS
• Manchester - Milford/Carmarthen is difficult due to reversal at Swansea (solvable with DBSOs or top&tail 37s)
• The same applies to Holyhead - Cardiff also due to reversal at Chester

That only leaves only of ATW's regional express service groups, Manchester - Llandudno and that doesn't get the stock to Canton for servicing. I would think mark2 stock needs a regular diagram to justify the necessary work on DBSOs or availablity of 37s for top&tail.

I have it on good authority that they will be made available for sale in the new year.
And there is no way on this earth that arriva will ever buy/use/hire any DBSO's whatsoever, They (DB) owns lots of DVT's, so if for any reason there is a need then a DVT will be first choice, especially as they have 2 spares.
And for the same reason they will never have class 37's again when the owning company had a load of class 67's.

 

[sprinterguy]

Yes, three standard & one little used first/dinner,

That's not what the photo shows. There are four TSOs present, plus the first class restaurant, which is unorthodox.

 

[merlodlliw]

That's not what the photo shows. There are four TSOs present, plus the first class restaurant, which is unorthodox.

That picture is a RUGEX from November, the daily is three Mark 3 standard & the first/dining car, I have corrected yes to no in my previous post, my error

Ill wait to Tuesday to see Saturdays Rugex pics on North Wales Rail news.

Hope this helps


Bob

 

[Rhydgaled]

I have it on good authority that they will be made available for sale in the new year.
And there is no way on this earth that arriva will ever buy/use/hire any DBSO's whatsoever, They (DB) owns lots of DVT's, so if for any reason there is a need then a DVT will be first choice, especially as they have 2 spares.
And for the same reason they will never have class 37's again when the owning company had a load of class 67's.

While DB have DVTs and 67s, I would imagine running a 37 could be cheaper than running a 67 and running a DBSO would certainly be better value for money (given that it provides seats, rather than only adding weight) than running a DVT. Also, Arriva ran top & tail 67s rather than 67 + DVT while they still used the mark2s on Gerald, which suggests DVTs are not compatible with mark2 stock.

 

[sprinterguy]

Also, Arriva ran top & tail 67s rather than 67 + DVT while they still used the mark2s on Gerald, which suggests DVTs are not compatible with mark2 stock.

DVTs are compatible with mark 2 stock when working with TDM fitted locomotives. Such formations were a regular part of the West Coast main line from when the DVTs were introduced until the mark 2 rakes were withdrawn. Perhaps this is not the case with the AAR multiple working fitted class 67s.

 

[Sheridan]

Is it possible to reserve seats in standard class on the Premier Service? I booked my advance tickets through East Coast's website (as I find it the easiest to use) and it was not possible to reserve a seat.

(I did do a search, but couldn't find any relevant information).

 

[SovietGaz]

Is it possible to reserve seats in standard class on the Premier Service? I booked my advance tickets through East Coast's website (as I find it the easiest to use) and it was not possible to reserve a seat.

(I did do a search, but couldn't find any relevant information).

No seat reservations for Arriva can be made on-line. You have to go to a station for that privilege.

I think it has something to do with making stations still competitive against on-line sales... But someone with a better insight could well provide us with the right answer.