ATW Premier Service

[swcovas]

Top 20 stations in terms of "Entries and Exits" 10-11 in Wales

Station Name
1. Cardiff Central 11,259,968
2. Cardiff Queen Street 2,411,438
3. Newport (Gwent) 2,291,040
4. Swansea 2,155,906
5. Bridgend 1,604,944
6. Pontypridd 1,034,976
7. Neath 819,546
8. Trefforest 769,646
9. Cardiff Bay 753,148
10. Cathays 701,082
11. Caerphilly 665,328
12. Bangor (Gwynedd) 633,664
13. Barry Island 618,346
14. Wrexham General 613,618
15. Rhyl 609,178
16. Penarth 586,048
17. Treherbert 526,862
18. Aberdare 524,592
19. Barry 503,634
20. Port Talbot Parkway 478,844

Last (no. 218) was Sugar Loaf with a worrying 84.

Any bets on whether the city of Bangor or town of Wrexham could make it into the top 10 in future!?

Sugar Loaf is a bit of an anomaly. It existed in steam days purely as point where bankers coming up from Llandovery were dropped off. It is totally isolated and the platforms (There were two) were solely for use by train staff. In the 80s when the Summer Sunday rambler service ran it was opened to the public temporarily and I guess someone at some time decided that it may as well be open permanently and appeared in the public timetables permanently in around 1990. I'm not sure but the figure may be more than published. Guards have told me that passengers often have tickets to other stations, particularly Llanwrtyd. I travelled the line quite a few times in July and we stopped on 3 occassions to pick up....totally 8 passengers! Strangely, the station has live information displays whereas some of the busier stations, like Llandeilo and Llandybie don't!

 

[Gareth Marston]

The world of European Funding. Sugar Loaf is in Powys not a prime assisted area but the other stations are in Carmarthanshire in whats known as the convergence zone. The same ESF Project that's suppose to fund LLandudno was to be used to pay for PIS Screens for stations in those areas. The ESF rules said that whoever installs them has to agree to keep them "in perpetuity" ATW was suppose to do this but they couldn't find a way to comply with the clause (see VT/First ) after years of delay the work was transferred to NR. In the meantime Powys was done out of normal ATW funds. That's why Dovey Junction has screens and nearby Borth doesn't.

 

[swcovas]

The world of European Funding. Sugar Loaf is in Powys not a prime assisted area but the other stations are in Carmarthanshire in whats known as the convergence zone. The same ESF Project that's suppose to fund LLandudno was to be used to pay for PIS Screens for stations in those areas. The ESF rules said that whoever installs them has to agree to keep them "in perpetuity" ATW was suppose to do this but they couldn't find a way to comply with the clause (see VT/First ) after years of delay the work was transferred to NR. In the meantime Powys was done out of normal ATW funds. That's why Dovey Junction has screens and nearby Borth doesn't.

Intersting!!!! Would never have thought of that as the reason!!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The world of European Funding. Sugar Loaf is in Powys not a prime assisted area but the other stations are in Carmarthanshire in whats known as the convergence zone. The same ESF Project that's suppose to fund LLandudno was to be used to pay for PIS Screens for stations in those areas. The ESF rules said that whoever installs them has to agree to keep them "in perpetuity" ATW was suppose to do this but they couldn't find a way to comply with the clause (see VT/First ) after years of delay the work was transferred to NR. In the meantime Powys was done out of normal ATW funds. That's why Dovey Junction has screens and nearby Borth doesn't.

So the TOC, Network Rail, the County Councils and Welsh Government all claim they are "investing" in rail when actually it's much maligned Brussels which is forking out.
Wouldn't suit the Daily Mail.

Actually there are many busy stations across GB which are still without PIS screens.

 

[dave87016]

Can passengers in standard class still buy full breakfast on this service?

 

[Squaddie]

Can passengers in standard class still buy full breakfast on this service?

They've probably picked something up at Greggs before boarding.

 

[Chester025]

Can passengers in standard class still buy full breakfast on this service?

Yes, you can indeed.

 

[dave87016]

Last time I travelled on it 2 years ago I managed to purchase a full breakfast in standard class - it was one of the best I have had on a train and am wondering if passengers in Standard class can still purchase them? as I intend to use the service on 14th September

Thanks Chester025

 

[harri2626]

Only two weeks to go before the timetable change and still no 1st Class or Restaurant symbols for the northbound service on the online timetable.

 

[jones_bangor]

Only two weeks to go before the timetable change and still no 1st Class or Restaurant symbols for the northbound service on the online timetable.

Has the Minister actually said there will be first class on the new service!?......just wondering.

 

[cymro inside]

yes you may buy breakfast,order it at the buffet counter it will be cooked while you wait and take it back to your seat,it has a foil wrapper on to keep it warm and it will be served on a proper plate with real knives and forks and after you,ve finished just take the plate back to the counter..if i recall there are two versions main line and branch line main line is 2 sausage bacon and egg and branch line is one of each, just under 8 quid for main line branch line a pound or two less.

 

[dave87016]

Thanks for all the info much appreciated I look forward to my trip on 14th September

 

[merlodlliw]

Has the Minister actually said there will be first class on the new service!?......just wondering.

This is what National Rail tell me for Monday 17th CDF to WRX on the Wag, the logos show 1st & dinning facilities

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/servi...tf&url=/service/times/CDF/WRX/170912/1800/dep

I am at a loss to understand why ATW have not changed the timetable logo,so it looks very much like the same error will be in the printed version, which I am told is available at the Wrexham booking office(cabinet behind the pay window) depending who is on duty Ill get a copy today.

With the cock up with the first on line Sept/Dec timetables,plus ATW head honchos aware of the wrong logos, the mystery deepens as this is ATWs show piece train.

DB in its Euro on line timetable still shows the WAG EX via Crewe on the 17th Sept.

Just looked at ATWs on line booking office, out of interest,this tells me I can travel 1st advance Cardiff to Wrexham for £61 on the 17th of this month . http://www.buytickets.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/combinedmatrix.aspx?Command=TimeTable however no refunds on this advance ticket price
anytime first is just pence under £80
Bob

 

[Gareth Marston]

So the TOC, Network Rail, the County Councils and Welsh Government all claim they are "investing" in rail when actually it's much maligned Brussels which is forking out.
Wouldn't suit the Daily Mail.

Actually there are many busy stations across GB which are still without PIS screens.

All European projects are "match funded" so its never 100% ESF money usually around 30-40%- though the rules and regs from this amount govern the project. There's an argument that as the UK is a net contributor to the EU so the ESF money is effectively recycled UK money anyway.
Wales had around £1.5 Billion ESF money in period 2007-2013.

 

[merlodlliw]

All European projects are "match funded" so its never 100% ESF money usually around 30-40%- though the rules and regs from this amount govern the project. There's an argument that as the UK is a net contributor to the EU so the ESF money is effectively recycled UK money anyway.
Wales had around £1.5 Billion ESF money in period 2007-2013.

Agree, I have successfully bid & won many ESF funded projects,match funding is a strange thing for many to get their heads around.
It can be volunteer time or staff time, the latest ESF bid I am involved with is via Cadwyn Clwyd Flintshire(not one inch into Wrexham or Denbigh boundaries ) which also requires a cash contribution as well.
In the old days match funding was also known in the trade as "Funny Money"

I fully understand how a station in Powys qualifies,but on the very same HOWL a station a few away in Carmarthen wont qualify.

This ESF money BTW is indeed money returned from our UK contributions to Europe.

Bob


Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

Just looked at ATWs on line booking office, out of interest,this tells me I can travel 1st advance Cardiff to Wrexham for £61 on the 17th of this month . http://www.buytickets.arrivatrainswales.co.uk/combinedmatrix.aspx?Command=TimeTable however no refunds on this advance ticket price
anytime first is just pence under £80
Bob

That's not bad. Hopefully it'll be better utilised now, the cost was high before.

 

[merlodlliw]

That's not bad. Hopefully it'll be better utilised now, the cost was high before.

Dont know if that includes food,

The 1st return fare from your neck of the woods is £222 anytime, from Wrexham its £160, advance rtn is of course cheaper in at £156 HHD & £122 WRX

The standard fare which I will use on principle from Wrexham is a stunning £24 return less card of course. If I go on the Club 55 its £16 Rtn less card discount
so the New Wag should fill up in standard, not sure about 1st at those prices.

Bob

 

[All Line Rover]

That's not bad. Hopefully it'll be better utilised now, the cost was high before.

Ever since the Premier Service started £59 fares were available between Cardiff and Crewe/Chester. The fares went up to £61 in January and will, of course, be available between Cardiff and Wrexham/Chester.

 

[Squaddie]

...so the New Wag should fill up in standard, not sure about 1st at those prices.

I think the first class Advance fare is pretty good value, at just £73 from Cardiff to Bangor, and I hope there is sufficient demand for ATW to consider introducing first class on more of their service. I'd very much like to travel on the Heart of Wales and Cambrian lines again, but ATW would have to pay me to travel in their standard accommodation. I really can't see first class being introduced in the foreseeable future, though.

 

[merlodlliw]

I think the first class Advance fare is pretty good value, at just £73 from Cardiff to Bangor, and I hope there is sufficient demand for ATW to consider introducing first class on more of their service. I'd very much like to travel on the Heart of Wales and Cambrian lines again, but ATW would have to pay me to travel in their standard accommodation. I really can't see first class being introduced in the foreseeable future, though.

ATW would never dream of putting on first class by itself, the new timing will see if there is more demand in first, perhaps I am from the old school and would never dream of paying £61 for a single between Cardiff & Wrexham, when I can travel for £12 in what will be excellent mark three stock,I am sure many will think the mark three standard is first,that occurred on W/S many times.

Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

ATW would never dream of putting on first class by itself, the new timing will see if there is more demand in first, perhaps I am from the old school and would never dream of paying £61 for a single between Cardiff & Wrexham, when I can travel for £12 in what will be excellent mark three stock,I am sure many will think the mark three standard is first,that occurred on W/S many times.

First class can be a bit overrated - you're right that the Mark 3 stock with new seats will be pretty special.

 

[merlodlliw]

First class can be a bit overrated - you're right that the Mark 3 stock with new seats will be pretty special.

I understand Pullman have as usual done an excellent job on the mark three coaches, it will indeed be an experience to try them out at a bargain fare of £12. It is a great shame this service wont run every Saturday with just the buffet counter,


Bob

 

[harri2626]

In spite of the lack of symbols on the on-line timetable, is the evening WAG dining car still operating?

 

[merlodlliw]

In spite of the lack of symbols on the on-line timetable, is the evening WAG dining car still operating?

I dont know about the return, but I have given figures about today's loading in the other thread marked Thursday morning on Wrexham General under traction & loco
Heres what I saw this morning

I had to collect supplies from the County Store this morning opposite Wrexham General, I arrived early to miss the traffic, this gave me the opportunity to do a pax count to compare what I saw yesterday.

Wag Express arrived 0729 top & tailed 67s Driver in each loco.
37 got off, mostly students at Yale & Glyndwr(these would have used the DMU previous).
Departure was at 0732, pax on board First Class 0(nil) Chief & two catering staff seen seated at window, Standard class 27 this number includes 5(five) who boarded at Wrexham.

0747 New Wrexham to Birmingham service(158) left with 32 pax on board.

Yesterday 2(two) were in first on the Wag

More detail about the catering will be found in this weeks special Wag Express edition of North Wales rail newsboard link is here http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm
Heres what the link says below about the new arrangement courtesy of North Wales Rail Newsboard

" (as we understand it) the Chef will board the train at Rhyl in the morning and alight there in the evening. The two other catering staff will travel home to Holyhead as passengers in the first available train from Cardiff, replaced for the evening run by two others who have travelled 'passenger' from Holyhead. Very strange."

Picked up the Wife at Ruabon off the 1321 from Cardiff, Two conflicting time tables at the station, Chester/Wrexham/Salop/Birmingham shows the Wag Express 1821 off Cardiff as trolley service,yet the North Wales /Manchester/SouthWales timetable shows the Wag Express ex Cardiff 1821 as restaurant, so take your pick.

 

[krus_aragon]

I'd very much like to travel on the Heart of Wales and Cambrian lines again, but ATW would have to pay me to travel in their standard accommodation. I really can't see first class being introduced in the foreseeable future, though.

Cardiff - Manchester is a far more likely proposition for further first class offerings by a W&B franchisee. The 158s' standard class saloons on the Cambrian are brighter and airier post-refurbishment, but the underfloor engines still seem very loud to me.

 

[jones_bangor]

" (as we understand it) the Chef will board the train at Rhyl in the morning and alight there in the evening. The two other catering staff will travel home to Holyhead as passengers in the first available train from Cardiff, replaced for the evening run by two others who have travelled 'passenger' from Holyhead. Very strange."

Not strange - just complying with working time directive.

Mr Sargeant will no doubt be happy at the "saving"...........

 

[merlodlliw]

Not strange - just complying with working time directive.

Mr Sargeant will no doubt be happy at the "saving"...........

Thats one way to look at it, so five catering staff needed each day for two runs,I suppose the eight hour daily hang up at Cardiff now makes catering with a Chef more difficult,but if its like yesterday morning with no first class customers,is there need for the Chef,it will be interesting to see if custom increases, but the 10.00 arrival in Cardiff is late for many and rules out anyone going say Bangor to Chester getting a cooked breakfast, if the Chef is starting at Rhyl. The old W/S found no need for a Chef,yet produced excellent meals.
The temporary use of two 67s with two Drivers must be costing ATW dearly,

Bob
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Cardiff - Manchester is a far more likely proposition for further first class offerings by a W&B franchisee. The 158s' standard class saloons on the Cambrian are brighter and airier post-refurbishment, but the underfloor engines still seem very loud to me.

My wife arrived back from Swansea yesterday on a Manchester service as far as Cardiff, she told me the Manchester service left Cardiff full & standing,yet the 1321 Cardiff to Holyhead she transferred too left Cardiff less than half full,so I agree first on the Manchester run would perhaps be better used & fill more seats, but its not going to happen.

Bob

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Thats one way to look at it, so five catering staff needed each day for two runs,I suppose the eight hour daily hang up at Cardiff now makes catering with a Chef more difficult,but if its like yesterday morning with no first class customers,is there need for the Chef,it will be interesting to see if custom increases, but the 10.00 arrival in Cardiff is late for many and rules out anyone going say Bangor to Chester getting a cooked breakfast, if the Chef is starting at Rhyl. The old W/S found no need for a Chef,yet produced excellent meals.
The temporary use of two 67s with two Drivers must be costing ATW dearly,

Standard class passengers can also have a full meal brought to their seats, had a breakfast myself the other day and noticed people having evening meal on return in standard, so it's not exclusively for the benefit of first class passengers.

 

[merlodlliw]

Thats one way to look at it, so five catering staff needed each day for two runs,I suppose the eight hour daily hang up at Cardiff now makes catering with a Chef more difficult,but if its like yesterday morning with no first class customers,is there need for the Chef,it will be interesting to see if custom increases, but the 10.00 arrival in Cardiff is late for many and rules out anyone going say Bangor to Chester getting a cooked breakfast, if the Chef is starting at Rhyl. The old W/S found no need for a Chef,yet produced excellent meals.
The temporary use of two 67s with two Drivers must be costing ATW dearly,

Standard class passengers can also have a full meal brought to their seats, had a breakfast myself the other day and noticed people having evening meal on return in standard, so it's not exclusively for the benefit of first class passengers.

Did you travel this week since Monday,out of interest, I agree catering should be available for all passengers.But I question the requirement for a Chef

Bob

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Did you travel this week since Monday,out of interest, I agree catering should be available for all passengers.But I question the requirement for a Chef

Bob

No, not haven't been via Wrexham yet...whatever the merits of having a onboard chef might be, one surely is the quality of the food? I never ate on the W&S, did they use ready meals or something similar?