ATW Overnight Outposts

[mervyn72]

Hi. Can anybody tell me how many units of each class overnight at Carmarthen, Crewe CS, Shrewsbury CS and Chester Station?

 

[Philip]

With 175s, I think it's normally:

11 at Chester (six x 3-coach, five x 2-coach)
4 at Holyhead (two x 3-coach, two x 2-coach)
6 at Cardiff Canton (four x 3-coach, two x 2-coach)
5 at Carmarthen (three x 3-coach, two 2-coach)
1 at Shrewsbury (3-coach)

A couple also stay at Crewe CS when there's overnight engineering works on the Crewe-Chester line and the late evening/early morning moves along there don't run.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Carmarthen has a 158 so does Chester.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Crewe has a 158, and fairly sure one loco hauled set stables overnight there too. Think Pwllheli has a 158 too

 

[PHILIPE]

The position is, although I may be an odd one out, should be:-

Carmarthen 3x150 1x153 1x158 2x175/0 3x175/1
Shrewsbury 1x153 4x158 1x175/1
Chester 2x150 4x158
Crewe 1x150 3x158 1xLHCS
Holyhead 1x158 2x175/0 2x175/1 1xLHCS
Pwllheli 2x158
Rhymney 3x14x 5x150
Treherbert 4x14x 2x150

I have not shown Canton or Machynlleth as they are not outposts nor Chester's 175s because, in their case, it is not an outpost. Have shown all locations not just those requested

 

[mervyn72]

Thanks for this. Does the 153 starting Carmarthen operate alone or is it attached to a 150

 

[30907]

Thanks for this. Does the 153 starting Carmarthen operate alone or is it attached to a 150

Is that not the HoWL set, so 04.53 to Llanelli? Or am I behind the times?

 

[PHILIPE]

Is that not the HoWL set, so 04.53 to Llanelli? Or am I behind the times?

I think you are. There is no 0453 now, just 0431 on a Saturday. The 153 works 1B39 0303 Carmarthen to Swansea (attached to 150 for 0545 to Pembroke Dock) and 2M06 0600 Swansea to Crewe (via HOWL)

 

[30907]

I think you are. There is no 0453 now, just 0431 on a Saturday. The 153 works 1B39 0303 Carmarthen to Swansea (attached to 150 for 0545 to Pembroke Dock) and 2M06 0600 Swansea to Crewe (via HOWL)

RTT tells me it still exists, but it's the Llandovery so it'll be a 150.
Come to think of it, when there was an early Carmarthen-Shrewsbury it was a 150 anyway.

 

[PHILIPE]

RTT tells me it still exists, but it's the Llandovery so it'll be a 150.
Come to think of it, when there was an early Carmarthen-Shrewsbury it was a 150 anyway.

The Llandovery is a 0453 from Carmarthen and not from Swansea. The old 0453 ex Swansea is now the 0600.

 

[Bovverboy]

But mervyn72 specifically mentioned Carmarthen.

 

[PHILIPE]

But mervyn72 specifically mentioned Carmarthen.

We can all see that and he has been given the answer to his query in Post #5

 

[30907]

We can all see that and he has been given the answer to his query in Post #5

He raised a follow up in #6 which I was attempting to answer WRT units outstabled at CMN.

Crossed wires I think, complicated by the former existence of an 0453 SWA (which I hadn't remembered) and a present 0453 CMN.

 

[berneyarms]

The position is, although I may be an odd one out, should be:-

Carmarthen 3x150 1x153 1x158 2x175/0 3x175/1
Shrewsbury 1x153 4x158 1x175/1
Chester 2x150 4x158
Crewe 1x150 3x158 1xLHCS
Holyhead 1x158 2x175/0 2x175/1 1xLHCS
Pwllheli 2x158
Rhymney 3x14x 5x150
Treherbert 4x14x 2x150

I have not shown Canton or Machynlleth as they are not outposts nor Chester's 175s because, in their case, it is not an outpost. Have shown all locations not just those requested

Isn't there also 1 x 153 at Crewe off the 14:35 Swansea-Crewe?

 

[PHILIPE]

Isn't there also 1 x 153 at Crewe off the 14:35 Swansea-Crewe?

Oh. yes there is I had it in my notes preparing to post but missed it. Runs ECS to Shrewsbury for 0556 down Heart of Wales. Apologies

 

[berneyarms]

Oh. yes there is I had it in my notes preparing to post but missed it. Runs ECS to Shrewsbury for 0556 down Heart of Wales. Apologies

No bother!
Out of curiosity, how does the third Class 150 end up in Carmarthen? I'm guessing that it's joined up with something else - I can figure out two sets but can't work out the third?

 

[PHILIPE]

No bother!
Out of curiosity, how does the third Class 150 end up in Carmarthen? I'm guessing that it's joined up with something else - I can figure out two sets but can't work out the third?

2x150 on 2B73 2104 Cardiff Cen to Milford Haven, detaches one at Carmarthen (avoid wasting fuel ??)

 

[berneyarms]

2x150 on 2B73 2104 Cardiff Cen to Milford Haven, detaches one at Carmarthen (avoid wasting fuel ??)

Ah - but are not 2 x 150 on Pembroke Dock duty during the day that end up in Carmarthen already (One starting with the 04:53 Carmarthen-Llandovery and the other on the 06:42 Cardiff Central-Pembroke Dock)?

Or has the second of those been downsized?

 

[PHILIPE]

Ah - but are not 2 x 150 on Pembroke Dock duty during the day that end up in Carmarthen already (One starting with the 04:53 Carmarthen-Llandovery and the other on the 06:42 Cardiff Central-Pembroke Dock)?

Or has the second of those been downsized?

Second one downsized to 153 except during last High Summer. The same 153 that will finish at Carmarthen that night.

 

[Jez]

Im guessing the 2x150 that end up on the 2104 Cardiff-Carmarthen (Milford Haven), 1 ends up on Pembroke Dock the next day (to replace the 150 sent back to Cardiff on the 1850 Carmarthen-Cardiff) and the other forms the first Swanline as that was changed from a 175 to a 150 some time ago.

The 1804 Cardiff to Swansea (Swanline) I believe is a 150 - how does this get back to Cardiff? On Saturday there is a 1910 Swanline but during the week this is combined into the Milford Haven-Cardiff service which is a 175. Does it just run empty back to Cardiff or attach to something else?

Also the 0910 Swansea-Cardiff Swanline - what is this formed of now that the service from Pembroke Dock is cut back to Swansea for the 11.00 Swansea-Fishguard?

 

[PHILIPE]

Im guessing the 2x150 that end up on the 2104 Cardiff-Carmarthen (Milford Haven), 1 ends up on Pembroke Dock the next day (to replace the 150 sent back to Cardiff on the 1850 Carmarthen-Cardiff) and the other forms the first Swanline as that was changed from a 175 to a 150 some time ago.

The 1804 Cardiff to Swansea (Swanline) I believe is a 150 - how does this get back to Cardiff? On Saturday there is a 1910 Swanline but during the week this is combined into the Milford Haven-Cardiff service which is a 175. Does it just run empty back to Cardiff or attach to something else?

Also the 0910 Swansea-Cardiff Swanline - what is this formed of now that the service from Pembroke Dock is cut back to Swansea for the 11.00 Swansea-Fishguard?

1804 Cardiff to Swansea is booked 158 which attaches to 1850 Carmarthen to Cardiff and the 0910 Swansea to Cardiff is formed by 153 off 0714 ex Cardiff which is formed by 2x153, the other going HOWl

 

[Jez]

1804 Cardiff to Swansea is booked 158 which attaches to 1850 Carmarthen to Cardiff and the 0910 Swansea to Cardiff is formed by 153 off 0714 ex Cardiff which is formed by 2x153, the other going HOWl

Thanks Philipe. I hadn't realised the 1804 was now a 158, not seen it for a while now.

 

[berneyarms]

1804 Cardiff to Swansea is booked 158 which attaches to 1850 Carmarthen to Cardiff and the 0910 Swansea to Cardiff is formed by 153 off 0714 ex Cardiff which is formed by 2x153, the other going HOWl

I hadn't spotted that change either! Clearly my understanding of the South Wales links need updating.

Following the links on RTT, the Class 158 that comes down on the 06:10 ex-Shrewsbury to Maesteg, appears to shuttle between Maesteg and Cheltenham Spa, before ending up at Cardiff Central at 20:13.

Something must change during the day as that set goes to Manchester per RTT at 20:17, which can't be right, as that set is supposed to stay in Cardiff overnight?

Any chance that you can enlighten me?

Also, what happens to the Class 153 sets that go from Cardiff Central to Canton off the 12:45 Llanelli-Cardiff Central and the 10:40 Newport-Cardiff Central - do they head out later after a rest in the sidings?

 

[PHILIPE]

I hadn't spotted that change either! Clearly my understanding of the South Wales links need updating.

Following the links on RTT, the Class 158 that comes down on the 06:10 ex-Shrewsbury to Maesteg, appears to shuttle between Maesteg and Cheltenham Spa, before ending up at Cardiff Central at 20:13.

Something must change during the day as that set goes to Manchester per RTT at 20:17, which can't be right, as that set is supposed to stay in Cardiff overnight?

Any chance that you can enlighten me?

Also, what happens to the Class 153 sets that go from Cardiff Central to Canton off the 12:45 Llanelli-Cardiff Central and the 10:40 Newport-Cardiff Central - do they head out later after a rest in the sidings?

As far as I can make out the 158 returns North the same night forming 2017 Cardiff to Manchester after arrival of 2L56 from Maesteg. the other 2 only going North at the weekend. The overnight one is off 1804 Cardiff to Swansea returning attached and 5W76 off Canton doesn't operate.. The working was messed up due to the short notice retiming of the Stena Fishguard ferries.
The 153s to which you refer strengthen evening peaks to Ebbw Vale.

 

[berneyarms]

Yes I gathered it was all related to Fishguard.

So how do they integrate the three South Wales 158s?

If one set comes down and goes back on the same day, how do sets get down to operate the other two links?

Edit: Sorry - I missed your weekend comment.

I must try and figure out the weekend links.

Any guidance as to where they start the 158s on South Wales / Marches start their links on a Sunday (I’m guessing Saturday is similar to weekdays)?

 

[PHILIPE]

Yes I gathered it was all related to Fishguard.

So how do they integrate the three South Wales 158s?

If one set comes down and goes back on the same day, how do sets get down to operate the other two links?

Edit: Sorry - I missed your weekend comment.

I must try and figure out the weekend links.

Any guidance as to where they start the 158s on South Wales / Marches start their links on a Sunday (I’m guessing Saturday is similar to weekdays)?

Weekend movements between North and South include:-

SAT:- 1V49 0613 Shrewsbury to Maesteg
1V34 0630 Manchester to Milford Haven finishing at Canton at night.
1W76 1916 Maesteg to Manchester Picc
SUN:- 1V14 1330 Manchester Picc to Cardiff (Attaches AT Manchester Picc, stabled there)
1W26 1508 Milford Haven to Manchester Picc
1W37 1940 Cardiff to Shrewsbury.

There maybe 158s on Cardiff/Holyhead services on Sundays also

 

[berneyarms]

Weekend movements between North and South include:-

SAT:- 1V49 0613 Shrewsbury to Maesteg
1V34 0630 Manchester to Milford Haven finishing at Canton at night.
1W76 1916 Maesteg to Manchester Picc
SUN:- 1V14 1330 Manchester Picc to Cardiff (Attaches AT Manchester Picc, stabled there)
1W26 1508 Milford Haven to Manchester Picc
1W37 1940 Cardiff to Shrewsbury.

There maybe 158s on Cardiff/Holyhead services on Sundays also

Thanks Philipe!
Gives me something to work off!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I think I understand!

The 0828 arrival in Swansea (2B55 ex Canton) generally forms the 0910 and 0933 departures. These end up in Canton at 1110 (so is a morning peak working so could be anything 15X) and Shrewsbury at 0017 after doing Heart of Wales so will generally be a 153.

The 0901 arrival in Swansea (2E03) generally forms the 1100 departure which ends up in Canton at 2104 and will generally be a 158, having commenced at Carmarthen that morning, providing it operated the 1604 from Cardiff yesterday (initially 0538 from Canton).

But the 0828 / 0901 arrivals and 0910 / 1100 departures are interchangeable depending upon what is available, what is needed elsewhere, and what happens during the day.

The 1100 works back to Swansea for 1914 where it generally attaches to the 1951 (2B39) which ends at Canton at 2104.

 

[craigybagel]

The position is, although I may be an odd one out, should be:-

Crewe 1x150 3x158 1xLHCS

As well as the 153 omission mentioned earlier you're also missing a second 150 at Crewe. One goes ECS to Shrewsbury (attached to that HOWL 153 and the 158 for the 05:20 to Chester) to form the 0610 to Wrexham General, spending the rest of the day on Bidstons. The other goes ECS to Chester at around 03:10, attached to a 158. They split there and the 150 normally continues down the coast.

 

[berneyarms]

Just trying to work my way through the standard Class 158 weekday diagrams in the new timetable and I've a few questions for Philippe or craigybagel:

I assume that the early morning Machynlleth-Barmouth is still the maintenance spare just doing a return trip and that the 06:45 ex-Barmouth goes back into the depot rather than joining the 07:30 ex-Aberystwyth.

How does the third Class 158 end up in Crewe CS?
One arrives off the 20:32 Shrewsbury-Crewe, and the second off the 23:50 ECS Manchester Piccadilly-Crewe.

Keeping with Crewe CS, I see one going ECS to Shrewsbury at 04:07 (joined with a Class 150 & Class 153) and then operates the 05:20 to Chester.
The second one is on the 03:00 ECS to Chester, before working the 04:22 Chester-Birmingham New St.
What happens the third set, which I assume ends up on the 06:40 Crewe-Shrewsbury somehow?

Also what happens to the 17:42 ex-Pwllheli? Does it join the 19:30 ex-Aberystwyth and then detach somewhere? I assume it must as otherwise the sets would be out of balance.

(I'm assuming that the 20:30 Aberystwth-Machynlleth forms the 21:47 Machynlleth-Pwllheil).

Also, on Sundays do the two Pwllheli based sets come down the coast during the winter, or just one?

Thanks in advance!