ATW Manchester to South Wales

[mervyn72]

Can anybody tell me the booked traction for each of the xx30 ATW Manchester to South Wales services. I know they are mostly class 175's but which are 3 car and which are 2 car. Also, are any booked for class 158?

 

[ValleyLines142]

None of them have a set diagram but usually the 0830, 0930, 1230, 1330, 1430, 1630, 1730 and the 2030 (as well as the 2135 to Shrewsbury) are usually 3 cars.

You do get the odd 158 on a Sunday.

If you're unlucky you may even end up with a 150!

 

[PHILIPE]

The 0630 Manchester to Milford Haven on a Saturday is booked a 158 and it comes back to work 19 30 to Cardiff.. Sundays can see a mixture with a couple of 150s thrown in. Sundays vary between Winter and Summer.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

The 0630 Manchester to Milford Haven on a Saturday is booked a 158 and it comes back to work 19 30 to Cardiff.. Sundays can see a mixture with a couple of 150s thrown in. Sundays vary between Winter and Summer.

IME the services most likely to be operated by 150s are indeed on Sundays, being the 1430 and/or 1530 departures from Piccadilly. Generally 2x150 are provided but occasionally a 150+158 formation can appear. As you rightly state there are variations but I suspect that the diagramming changes due to engineering works are a stronger factor than pure seasonality. But any evidence either way would be welcome.

 

[PHILIPE]

IME the services most likely to be operated by 150s are indeed on Sundays, being the 1430 and/or 1530 departures from Piccadilly. Generally 2x150 are provided but occasionally a 150+158 formation can appear. As you rightly state there are variations but I suspect that the diagramming changes due to engineering works are a stronger factor than pure seasonality. But any evidence either way would be welcome.

The 1430 is a 3 Car 175 during the Summer when it starts from Carmarthen instead of Cardiff on the way up.

 

[PHILIPE]

None of them have a set diagram but usually the 0830, 0930, 1230, 1330, 1430, 1630, 1730 and the 2030 (as well as the 2135 to Shrewsbury) are usually 3 cars.

You do get the odd 158 on a Sunday.

If you're unlucky you may even end up with a 150!

They have got set diagrams but not necessarily maintained for various reasons.

 

[Great_Western]

Since I'm in work early, here's yesterdays workings as a rough guide:

06:30 - 175007
07:30 - 175010
08:30 - 175108
09:30 - 175104
10:30 - 175006
11:30 - 175002
12:30 - 175112
13:30 - 175103
14:30 - 175116
15:30 - 175110
16:30 - 175113
17:30 - 175105
18:30 - 175010
19:30 - 175007
20:30 - 175104

No short formations as far as I can see. But today, the 06:30 and 19:30 are 150 vice 2 Car 175.

 

[PHILIPE]

Since I'm in work early, here's yesterdays workings as a rough guide:

06:30 - 175007
07:30 - 175010
08:30 - 175108
09:30 - 175104
10:30 - 175006
11:30 - 175002
12:30 - 175112
13:30 - 175103
14:30 - 175116
15:30 - 175110
16:30 - 175113
17:30 - 175105
18:30 - 175010
19:30 - 175007
20:30 - 175104

No short formations as far as I can see. But today, the 06:30 and 19:30 are 150 vice 2 Car 175.

Today (Saturdays only) , the 0630 and 1930 would be vice a 158 rather than a 175

 

[Great_Western]

Today (Saturdays only) , the 0630 and 1930 would be vice a 158 rather than a 175

Thats interesting. I was just going by our pager messages this morning which said "150 vice 2 car 175 (175112 Train Fault)"

 

[craigybagel]

Today (Saturdays only) , the 0630 and 1930 would be vice a 158 rather than a 175

Thats interesting. I was just going by our pager messages this morning which said "150 vice 2 car 175 (175112 Train Fault)"

It is indeed booked for a 158 and not a 175 on a Saturday (the unit comes ECS from Crewe rather than Chester as on a weekday) - although a substitution for a 150 is very common.

 

[Great_Western]

It is indeed booked for a 158 and not a 175 on a Saturday (the unit comes ECS from Crewe rather than Chester as on a weekday) - although a substitution for a 150 is very common.

I stand corrected That is one hell of a journey to do end to end on a 150!

 

[PHILIPE]

Thats interesting. I was just going by our pager messages this morning which said "150 vice 2 car 175 (175112 Train Fault)"

175112 is a 3 Car - Somebody's getting somewhat confused. Re your later post, there seems to be a 150 on something on the route almost every day recently

 

[Gareth Marston]

175112 is a 3 Car - Somebody's getting somewhat confused. Re your later post, there seems to be a 150 on something on the route almost every day recently

They've been on the BHM INtl diagrams as well meaning everyone gets turfed out at Shrewsbury off Cambrian trains going in opposite directions. Always fun with everyone crossing each other between 5 & 4B.

 

[Great_Western]

175112 is a 3 Car - Somebody's getting somewhat confused. Re your later post, there seems to be a 150 on something on the route almost every day recently

I did wonder about that, presumably they mean this is formed 150 as a consequence of that 175 failure, but I didnt see much else that could suggest that in our daily list of short formations.

And yes, indeed, much to the pain of the passengers who have to suffer them on long distance runs. A few weeks ago, one made it on to a Cardiff - Holyhead turn! Ridiculous when there are 158's on Ebbw Vale runs all day :roll:

 

[PHILIPE]

I did wonder about that, presumably they mean this is formed 150 as a consequence of that 175 failure, but I didnt see much else that could suggest that in our daily list of short formations.

And yes, indeed, much to the pain of the passengers who have to suffer them on long distance runs. A few weeks ago, one made it on to a Cardiff - Holyhead turn! Ridiculous when there are 158's on Ebbw Vale runs all day :roll:

There was no 175 failure directly affecting this. The 150 was vice a 158 = See Posts #8 and #10. There could have been a 175 failure and this could have had an indirect impact on it.
158s don't run to Ebbw Vale all day, only 1 booked now and this is formed off the Midday Fishguard Boats which requires a 158.

 

[Parallel]

There have been a few 150s working Birmingham Intl/Cardiff Central - Holyheads recently. Saw two in one day doing long distant runs two/from Holyhead a couple of weeks ago. ATW must be even more short of stock than usual.

 

[craigybagel]

I did wonder about that, presumably they mean this is formed 150 as a consequence of that 175 failure, but I didnt see much else that could suggest that in our daily list of short formations.

And yes, indeed, much to the pain of the passengers who have to suffer them on long distance runs. A few weeks ago, one made it on to a Cardiff - Holyhead turn! Ridiculous when there are 158's on Ebbw Vale runs all day :roll:

There was no 175 failure directly affecting this. The 150 was vice a 158 = See Posts #8 and #10. There could have been a 175 failure and this could have had an indirect impact on it.
158s don't run to Ebbw Vale all day, only 1 booked now and this is formed off the Midday Fishguard Boats which requires a 158.

Even if there was a 158 bouncing up and down to Ebbw Vale all day (which as Philipe pointed out, there isn't) it's not much use of the start of the diagram that 150 was on was in Holyhead or Crewe, many miles away.

They also need to take into account where the diagram ends - if the unit needs fuelling, or any kind of maintenance doing overnight, then there's no point putting it on a diagram that ends in Carmarthen or Shrewsbury for example. Contrary to popular belief, units aren't just allocated any old way - a lot of thought goes into both the booked allocations (what's meant to happen if we have 100% availability) and the last minute changes that take place on the day if something goes wrong.

 

[Philip]

Whilst the 16:30 and 17:30 off Manchester are both booked for 3-car units, it's quite common to see a 2-car 175 on at least one of these. Both diagrams start at Chester, so I'm guessing that the two 3-car 175 Manchester-North Wales diagrams that start at Chester (06:50 and 10:50 off Manchester) take priority for keeping the booked unit. The 06:30/19:30 diagram seems to fluctuate a bit between 2 and 3-car, especially on Fridays.

The 08:30 Milford Haven is 95% a 3-car 175 working, but many years ago this used to be a booked 2-car working, as did the 15:30 Carmarthen which is also a 3-car now.

 

[craigybagel]

Whilst the 16:30 and 17:30 off Manchester are both booked for 3-car units, it's quite common to see a 2-car 175 on at least one of these. Both diagrams start at Chester, so I'm guessing that the two 3-car 175 Manchester-North Wales diagrams that start at Chester (06:50 and 10:50 off Manchester) take priority for keeping the booked unit. The 06:30/19:30 diagram seems to fluctuate a bit between 2 and 3-car, especially on Fridays.

The 08:30 Milford Haven is 95% a 3-car 175 working, but many years ago this used to be a booked 2-car working, as did the 15:30 Carmarthen which is also a 3-car now.

There are a number of diagrams that are seen as high priority for 3 car units, the 17:30 off Manchester is one of them (that same diagram also forms the 04:49 Crewe - Milford Haven which also requires a 3 car) and as a result it's very rare it doesn't have one. Like I said earlier, a lot of thought goes in to unit allocation, they aren't just thrown out any which way.

 

[ValleyLines142]

The 08:30 Milford Haven is 95% a 3-car 175 working, but many years ago this used to be a booked 2-car working, as did the 15:30 Carmarthen which is also a 3-car now.

Never known the 0830 from Manchester to be a 2 car, ever. The inbound working (0435 for Cardiff) picks up the Shropshire and Crewe commuters and can get busy (especially as the next Crewe to Manchester service isn't until the 0753 XC departure).

Equally it ends up back at Cardiff northbound for 1750, picking up all the Welsh lot going home northwards.

1530 always used to be a 2 car. Wouldn't say that hits any major settlement at peak times (0750 from Fishguard, 0947 into Swansea but that isn't anything worth shouting over), and leaves Manchester just before the evening peak and arrives back in Cardiff just after the evening peak (1904 off Central).

 

[Philip]

Never known the 0830 from Manchester to be a 2 car, ever. The inbound working (0435 for Cardiff) picks up the Shropshire and Crewe commuters and can get busy (especially as the next Crewe to Manchester service isn't until the 0753 XC departure).

Equally it ends up back at Cardiff northbound for 1750, picking up all the Welsh lot going home northwards.

1530 always used to be a 2 car. Wouldn't say that hits any major settlement at peak times (0750 from Fishguard, 0947 into Swansea but that isn't anything worth shouting over), and leaves Manchester just before the evening peak and arrives back in Cardiff just after the evening peak (1904 off Central).

The 08:30 changed to 3-car with the December 2008 timetable change. In 2007 and 2008 it was booked a 2-car. Also the evening working of this diagram (21:35 to Shrewsbury) used to work to Cardiff, think this changed around the same time.

Slightly off route but both the 08:xx and 12:xx departures from Holyhead to Cardiff used to be booked as 2-car at one point. Don't know how busy these get!

Can remember getting on the 15:30 on a Friday afternoon once around 2009 when still a 2-car - was pretty packed!

 

[ValleyLines142]

The 08:30 changed to 3-car with the December 2008 timetable change. In 2007 and 2008 it was booked a 2-car. Also the evening working of this diagram (21:35 to Shrewsbury) used to work to Cardiff, think this changed around the same time.

Slightly off route but both the 08:xx and 12:xx departures from Holyhead to Cardiff used to be booked as 2-car at one point. Don't know how busy these get!

Can remember getting on the 15:30 on a Friday afternoon once around 2009 when still a 2-car - was pretty packed!

Well the 1232 from Holyhead runs through to Maesteg and forms the notorious 1719 departure from Cardiff. It leaves Cardiff full and standing most days so without a 3 car I don't know what would happen!

 

[Jez]

On Monday the 0615 Carmarthen to Manchester was a 150 when I saw it pass Neath. Does anyone know if it was a 150 on that diagram all day?

 

[PHILIPE]

On Monday the 0615 Carmarthen to Manchester was a 150 when I saw it pass Neath. Does anyone know if it was a 150 on that diagram all day?

Don't know but they usually do. 150s deputising are quite comnon on the route.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Got the 1008 off Crewe for Newport today , 3 car , almost 100% loaded for most of the way , but with substantial on and offs .e.g Ludlow- Hereford etc. All stations yielded double figure of passengers.

With good Wifi , comfortable seas , choice of coffee (Italian or Colombian) , helpful and diligent conductor / trolley person , it is , in my view a 1st class service in many respects.

(OK - the sun was shining and the harvesting countryside was very attractive)

Massive security prescence at Abergavenny , (hired in ones) - is there a deep rave planned or a visit from Trump ? - any local gen ?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Got the 1008 off Crewe for Newport today , 3 car , almost 100% loaded for most of the way , but with substantial on and offs .e.g Ludlow- Hereford etc. All stations yielded double figure of passengers.

With good Wifi , comfortable seas , choice of coffee (Italian or Colombian) , helpful and diligent conductor / trolley person , it is , in my view a 1st class service in many respects.

(OK - the sun was shining and the harvesting countryside was very attractive)

Massive security prescence at Abergavenny , (hired in ones) - is there a deep rave planned or a visit from Trump ? - any local gen ?

green man festval crickhowell, everything will be choker bloc from Newport up to Abergavenny today.

Hadcustomers complaining that 1000 from Shrewsbury to Piccadily was overcrowded 2 car earlier this week.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

green man festval crickhowell, everything will be choker bloc from Newport up to Abergavenny today.

Hadcustomers complaining that 1000 from Shrewsbury to Piccadily was overcrowded 2 car earlier this week.

Being an old hippy at heart that festival quite appeals to me - (makes note for the future - thank you) -yes - northbound Borders services observed were all very busy - but not daft.

Judging by the conversations and "churn" approaching Salop - a good % of the travellers were Cambrian bound.