ATW Drivers Strike

[ainsworth74]

Because the new offer is not any better than the existing one and the e.c have gone against every member of the company council who all stated to the e.c that they wanted the offer rejected.

Ah fair enough. Presumably the answer will come back as 'no' and we'll all be meeting back here again in short period of time to discuss the next strike date!

 

[atw driver]

I'm not taking any sides here, neither management bashing nor union bashing, but I've noticed that after joining the Forum 2 months ago all your posts have been giving the impression that you just want use the Forum to gloat over strike action. All your posts on the World Cup Rugby Trains were not about trains but just a running commentary on potential strike action as though hoping to disrupt the train services for the Cup.. Lets have a few constructive posts for discussion instead of seemingly hi-jacking the Forum to promote your own thoughts.

It's not gloating at all I was keeping people informed of the possibility of action and when it was likely to occur. My personal view was that it should have been taken during the world cup as this was the optimum time to put pressure on the company. I didn't take the decision to strike lightly but once it was decided I would rather get on with it

 

[whoosh]

Reduction in maximum turn length, reduction in spare movement. Year 2 and 3 protected against inflation. Walking time at end of diagrams kept.

Is there a clause in the deal you don't like, or are industrial relations just generally poor and you're fed up with the company?

 

[Carlisle]

My personal view was that it should have been taken during the world cup

I have zero knowledge of rugby matters but can appreciate how many years and man hours etc will have probably gone into organising that tournament

 

[atw driver]

Reduction in maximum turn length, reduction in spare movement. Year 2 and 3 protected against inflation. Walking time at end of diagrams kept.

Is there a clause in the deal you don't like, or are industrial relations just generally poor and you're fed up with the company?

Reduction in spare movement only for depots on the 4 day week, 3 year deal of 2.5, 2 and 2% in third year means we fall further behind in terms of pay. I,m not expecting to be the highest paid but for the amount of different traction and amount of route knowledge we have I don't think we should be near the bottom of the payscale.
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I have zero knowledge of rugby matters but can appreciate how many years and man hours etc will have probably gone into organising that tournament

Unfortunately when you make a decision to withdraw labour then you should be doing it when it is most likely to focus the managements minds. This paydeal was actually due on the first of july and months later it's still dragging on.

 

[Llanigraham]

Reduction in spare movement only for depots on the 4 day week, 3 year deal of 2.5, 2 and 2% in third year means we fall further behind in terms of pay. I,m not expecting to be the highest paid but for the amount of different traction and amount of route knowledge we have I don't think we should be near the bottom of the payscale.

More than we signallers were offered!
I'm not sure how you can be falling behind when current inflation rates are well below those figures?
Bottom of whose payscale? You earn a lot more than most signallers do!!

 

[A-driver]

More than we signallers were offered!

I'm not sure how you can be falling behind when current inflation rates are well below those figures?

Bottom of whose payscale? You earn a lot more than most signallers do!!

Bottom of the U.K. train drivers pay scale.

ATW justified it a while ago by claiming the reason ATW were paid significantly less than their FGW & VT colleagues who they share rails with was because ATW drivers drive the milk floats and the others drive the jumbo jets. A comment showing how little management understand about train driving!

 

[atw driver]

Bottom of the U.K. train drivers pay scale.

ATW justified it a while ago by claiming the reason ATW were paid significantly less than their FGW & VT colleagues who they share rails with was because ATW drivers drive the milk floats and the others drive the jumbo jets. A comment showing how little management understand about train driving!

It takes a fellow driver to get it. I remember those comments unbelievable considering I drive a variety of traction including locos.

 

[A-driver]

It takes a fellow driver to get it. I remember those comments unbelievable considering I drive a variety of traction including locos.

It seemed to miss the point that out of the HST driver keeping the speedo at 125mph for 45 mins under greens and the unit driver traversing low speed junctions, running under caution signals (being held for the HST) and stopping at dozens of stations for 45mins I know which one is actually working harder! The milk float/jumbo jet analogy was extremely misguided and ill informed.

 

[Llanigraham]

Bottom of the U.K. train drivers pay scale.

ATW justified it a while ago by claiming the reason ATW were paid significantly less than their FGW & VT colleagues who they share rails with was because ATW drivers drive the milk floats and the others drive the jumbo jets. A comment showing how little management understand about train driving!

And he made similar unreasonable comments about us signallers!!

 

[FordFocus]

It seemed to miss the point that out of the HST driver keeping the speedo at 125mph for 45 mins under greens and the unit driver traversing low speed junctions, running under caution signals (being held for the HST) and stopping at dozens of stations for 45mins I know which one is actually working harder! The milk float/jumbo jet analogy was extremely misguided and ill informed.

A long haul pilot could potentially perform the more difficult part of their job take off or landing once a day where as an easyJet or Flybe pilot could do it something like 6 times a day! So the ATW mangers analogy was horrifically wide of the mark. :roll:

 

[Robertj21a]

Because the new offer is not any better than the existing one and the e.c have gone against every member of the company council who all stated to the e.c that they wanted the offer rejected.

In these circumstances, is the next logical move for the membership to remove the current e.c for not abiding by the wishes of the members ?

 

[notadriver]

'Stopper' type work be it trains or planes is definitely harder than long distance so are there any serious suggestions as to why the latter is paid more despite being easier ?
The only reason I can think of is they want best/highly motivated crews for long distance and so are picky and pay the premium for that?

 

[FordFocus]

The Intercity TOCs were paid higher as under BR drivers got mileage payments, obviously London - Preston and back is going to pay a lot more miles so the Link 1 or senior men that did the express and intercity work got the higher average pay than the junior men, other payments come into it for personal wages but that's the main bit. When conditions and salary was restructured in the late 90s VT, GNER, GWT were going to have to pay higher to compensate for the loss of mileage payments and other items. Since then the pay has got wider because of the percentage RPI increases and other restructuring.

 

[atw driver]

'Stopper' type work be it trains or planes is definitely harder than long distance so are there any serious suggestions as to why the latter is paid more despite being easier ?
The only reason I can think of is they want best/highly motivated crews for long distance and so are picky and pay the premium for that?

We also do long distance work for example manchester to cardiff

 

[Carlisle]

Bottom of the U.K. train drivers pay scale.

ATW justified it a while ago by claiming the reason ATW were paid significantly less than their FGW & VT colleagues who they share rails with was because ATW drivers drive the milk floats and the others drive the jumbo jets. A comment showing how little management understand about train driving!

There was never a very convincing case at privatisation for varying the basic pay of Drivers depending on TOC , If your on the mainline it's basically identical requirements with a few tweaks here and there regardless of who you work for

 

[A-driver]

There was never a very convincing case at privatisation for varying the basic pay of Drivers depending on TOC , If your on the mainline it's basically identical requirements with a few tweaks here and there regardless of who you work for

Unless you work for ATW who are behind most companies.

 

[TDK]

Strike suspended disgraceful decision by the e.c

I don't know how you can say that without seeing the revised offer? The disgraceful part of all this is that drivers have to look on facebook or other media sites to see whether they are striking or not and not a peep from ASLEF, sorry but I am severely disappointed with the communications from ASLEF as a whole. All thorough this period of unrest with the company many of my colleagues and also I have not had any communications from ASLEF regarding the reason for striking, it is a disgrace.
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More than we signallers were offered!
I'm not sure how you can be falling behind when current inflation rates are well below those figures?
Bottom of whose payscale? You earn a lot more than most signallers do!!

Don't fall into that trap regarding "you earn more than me" you need to remember the called now postponed strike action is over conditions and not pay as the original pay deal was accepted. If I remember correctly signallers called for the same action not so long back.
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Because the new offer is not any better than the existing one and the e.c have gone against every member of the company council who all stated to the e.c that they wanted the offer rejected.

But have they gone against every member as the main members, the drivers had not seen any offers until the company informed them and not the EC, CC or ASLEF. I think the latest decision is correct to give the people, the drivers themselves a chance to see the offer and then if it is not up to expectations to ballot them again for industrial action. The CC to be fair is a small minority of the affected workforce.

 

[Wales_Commuter]

it's saying in the news they're balloting again, anyone know anything?

 

[WCMLaddict]

ASLEF side of the story

Arriva Trains Wales has reneged on the agreed dispute resolution of 11th November and unfortunately ASLEF has been left with no option other than to re-ballot drivers for industrial action on Arriva Trains Wales.
General Secretary, Mick Whelan commented, “After arriving at a deal with Arriva Trains Wales that we were happy to put to our members, the operator has subsequently shifted the goalposts by changing the length of shifts our members are expected to do. ASLEF had hoped to avoid this action, and always seeks to find a resolution without strike action, but this is no way to conduct industrial relations and has left us with no choice other than to re-ballot.”

 

[Robertj21a]

If there's no other relevant facts ......

I would have thought that the first action by ASLEF would be to go back to ATW management for an explanation as to why (if true) the hours have been changed. Balloting for strike action should, in my opinion, be a final resort not a standard response to anything.

 

[A-driver]

If there's no other relevant facts ......



I would have thought that the first action by ASLEF would be to go back to ATW management for an explanation as to why (if true) the hours have been changed. Balloting for strike action should, in my opinion, be a final resort not a standard response to anything.

And when you can provide evidence suggesting Aslef havnt gone back to management for an explanation and received a reply then I'll accept you have a valid point. If you honestly think the strike action is being used as anything but a last resort then it just proves how little you understand union negotiations. Do you honestly believe the membership would be willing to loose pay by striking for something which still has options left to try?!

 

[Gareth Marston]

This sort of thing will only encourage the Tories to pass legislation banging strikes by workers in critical public services (irony I know) sometimes the Brothers are the working people's worst enemies.

Pick your battles wisely.

 

[A-driver]

This sort of thing will only encourage the Tories to pass legislation banging strikes by workers in critical public services (irony I know) sometimes the Brothers are the working people's worst enemies.



Pick your battles wisely.

It won't make any difference. I don't buy into this myth of 'don't strike as you may upset the Tories and have striking banned'. It's not how it works. The trade union bill is one thing (and by the way the ballot for strike action on ATW was well above the proposed threshold so would still be perfectly legal) but banning strikes altogether is a very different ball game which, even if supported by the commons, would raise far too many legal and human rights issues to ever be enforceable.

Plus Wales and Scotland are considering trying to get themselves excluded from the TU bill.

 

[Wales_Commuter]

management side has come out:

Mr Thomas added: "The locally-elected company council were in full agreement with the terms of the deal. There appears to have been a misunderstanding between the locally-elected representatives with whom the detail of the deal was agreed and Aslef's national executive.
"Once again, we find ourselves in a position that the parts of the union closest to our people were in agreement with the detail of the deal but the national executive of Aslef, who were not involved in any discussions until November 11, seem to be unclear about the details of the deal which we believed to be acceptable to drivers locally."

 

[Zoidberg]

management side has come out:

Mr Thomas added: "The locally-elected company council were in full agreement with the terms of the deal. There appears to have been a misunderstanding between the locally-elected representatives with whom the detail of the deal was agreed and Aslef's national executive.
"Once again, we find ourselves in a position that the parts of the union closest to our people were in agreement with the detail of the deal but the national executive of Aslef, who were not involved in any discussions until November 11, seem to be unclear about the details of the deal which we believed to be acceptable to drivers locally."

Would you please provide a link to the source of this quote, thanks.

 

[Wales_Commuter]

Would you please provide a link to the source of this quote, thanks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-...les_news&ns_source=facebook&ns_linkname=wales

 

[Gareth Marston]

It won't make any difference. I don't buy into this myth of 'don't strike as you may upset the Tories and have striking banned'. It's not how it works. The trade union bill is one thing (and by the way the ballot for strike action on ATW was well above the proposed threshold so would still be perfectly legal) but banning strikes altogether is a very different ball game which, even if supported by the commons, would raise far too many legal and human rights issues to ever be enforceable.

Plus Wales and Scotland are considering trying to get themselves excluded from the TU bill.

There's little public sympathy for people earning 40K and working mid 30 hour weeks in Wales going on strike over relatively small differences in pay with rest of UK. It's not as though ATW Drivers have to buy a house in the SE of a England is it?
ASLEf need to take a reality check
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management side has come out:

Mr Thomas added: "The locally-elected company council were in full agreement with the terms of the deal. There appears to have been a misunderstanding between the locally-elected representatives with whom the detail of the deal was agreed and Aslef's national executive.
"Once again, we find ourselves in a position that the parts of the union closest to our people were in agreement with the detail of the deal but the national executive of Aslef, who were not involved in any discussions until November 11, seem to be unclear about the details of the deal which we believed to be acceptable to drivers locally."

Only makes my previous comments more valid , seems ASLEF hierarchy have got wrong end of stick whereas locally drivers are happy. Maybe ASLEF are doing things by numbers rather than looking at what the issues actually are?

 

[A-driver]

There's little public sympathy for people earning 40K and working mid 30 hour weeks in Wales going on strike over relatively small differences in pay with rest of UK. It's not as though ATW Drivers have to buy a house in the SE of a England is it?

ASLEf need to take a reality check

Not really as simple as you make it. And no one has any sympathy with anyone doing better than themselves, it's pretty much human nature. Or rather jealousy.

Junior doctors are now being called greedy, well paid, holding us to ransom etc in the press and comments pages. And they used to be portrayed as gods in the press!

Public sympathy will never be won during a strike, especially in sectors likely to cause noticeable disruption to other people's lives. But public sympathy isn't needed-that's proved by the fact that no rail strike has had public sympathy but they still happen and often lead to a 'successful' outcome for those striking.

 

[Wales_Commuter]

Only makes my previous comments more valid , seems ASLEF hierarchy have got wrong end of stick whereas locally drivers are happy. Maybe ASLEF are doing things by numbers rather than looking at what the issues actually are?

totally agree, and the passengers are the ones that suffer