ATW Drivers Strike

[Quakkerillo]

Many Valley services cancelled tomorrow, due to - I guess the no overtime part of - this ongoing dispute.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/117676.aspx

Due to a shortage of train drivers as a result of ongoing industrial action, many Arriva Trains Wales Valley Lines services will be cancelled on Sunday 10 January.

Where there is a long wait before the next train, replacement bus services will operate.

 

[atw driver]

Companies proposals rejected more strike dates to follow

 

[craigybagel]

Confirmed for February 1st.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-35296256

Arriva Trains Wales drivers are set to go on strike for the second time this year, the Aslef union has said.
The 24-hour strike, on 1 February, comes as part of a row over conditions.
Members of the RMT and Aslef unions walked out on 4 January this year, the day many returned to work after the Christmas break.
The pay side of the dispute has been accepted, but Aslef previously claimed Arriva was trying to "railroad through" changes to terms and conditions.
A union statement read: "Aslef today announced that, in the light of Arriva Trains Wales' failure to offer a satisfactory resolution to the long and ongoing dispute with its drivers, our members will withdraw their labour for 24 hours."

 

[Wales_Commuter]

You have to laugh 'railroad through' changes to conditions. - all the proposed changes are improvements! From what I've read there is not a single change being imposed that is in any way detrimental which isn't already part of drivers conditions. Unbelievable spin from the unions.

 

[A-driver]

You have to laugh 'railroad through' changes to conditions. - all the proposed changes are improvements! From what I've read there is not a single change being imposed that is in any way detrimental which isn't already part of drivers conditions. Unbelievable spin from the unions.

And your source is? I mean where do you get your info about the changes proposed and their current contracts exactly? And the answer 'the news' is invalid as is hardly unbiased!

 

[Wales_Commuter]

And your source is? I mean where do you get your info about the changes proposed and their current contracts exactly? And the answer 'the news' is invalid as is hardly unbiased!

They went through it in detail on BBC radio wales on the strike day. Even aslef said there are no new changes to conditions.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And it was the guy from aslef and rmt saying this not some news presenter. Unless they can't be believed either?

 

[A-driver]

They went through it in detail on BBC radio wales on the strike day. Even aslef said there are no new changes to conditions.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And it was the guy from aslef and rmt saying this not some news presenter. Unless they can't be believed either?

I didn't hear it so can't comment specifically but it's obviously not the entire story else the strike wouldn't have gone ahead! They only strike of there is a clear goal...

 

[Wales_Commuter]

I didn't hear it so can't comment specifically but it's obviously not the entire story else the strike wouldn't have gone ahead! They only strike of there is a clear goal...

I appreciate that there is a goal that aslef want to achieve. I just don't think they should be telling the public that it is because the terms and conditions are being changed for the worst. It seems to me that they are being improved but just not enough for what they want?

 

[FordFocus]

You have to laugh 'railroad through' changes to conditions. - all the proposed changes are improvements! From what I've read there is not a single change being imposed that is in any way detrimental which isn't already part of drivers conditions. Unbelievable spin from the unions.

If the proposed changes were improvements then why have union members voted in favour for strike action and lose wages?

Where is your source for all this?

 

[Dave1987]

They went through it in detail on BBC radio wales on the strike day. Even aslef said there are no new changes to conditions.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And it was the guy from aslef and rmt saying this not some news presenter. Unless they can't be believed either?

From what I have read conditions are the precise reason that they are going out on strike. The pay aspect is all agreed. Conditions for drivers are what safe guard your family life and ability to actually plan anything. As train drivers we don't work Mon - Fri 9 till 5. We varying shifts from very very early in the morning to very late at night. Drivers have conditions in places which vary from TOC to TOC and even depot to depot, that mean that you can't be forced to change your working hours on a specific shift without your approval. Without conditions like that drivers would never be able to have a life outside work or be able to plan anything with your family and friends!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I appreciate that there is a goal that aslef want to achieve. I just don't think they should be telling the public that it is because the terms and conditions are being changed for the worst. It seems to me that they are being improved but just not enough for what they want?

Why not? Drivers conditions are the one thing that protects them and enables them to have a life outside work. My conditions are fairly good for my depot and would sacrifice a pay increase to keep them as they are.

 

[Wales_Commuter]

I admit I don't know what the actual details of this are. I'm just going by what I heard from the unions and the company when they debated on the radio. i.e. That there are no detrimental changes being introduced, just improved conditions. It would be good to hear from someone more informed of what these changes are that are being railroaded through?

 

[FordFocus]

Enforced overtime to extend to a 11.5hr day, virtually rare for a passenger TOC and brings in life/work balance and fatigue issues.

 

[ComUtoR]

They are only "improvements" if the changes suit you. I've never had a pay deal where 100% of people agree on the changes. What is good for one person may be worse for someone else.

 

[Dave1987]

I admit I don't know what the actual details of this are. I'm just going by what I heard from the unions and the company when they debated on the radio. i.e. That there are no detrimental changes being introduced, just improved conditions. It would be good to hear from someone more informed of what these changes are that are being railroaded through?

You see the media tend to twist things to what their target audience want to hear or read. For example the London Evening Standard is targeted towards commuters so stories are usually written in a way that commuters want to read them which usually means the railways and staff are bashed on a regular occurrence. So you normally have to consider what the target audience is to realise what kind of spin is being put on the story.

 

[Wales_Commuter]

Enforced overtime to extend to a 11.5hr day, virtually rare for a passenger TOC and brings in life/work balance and fatigue issues.

Ah I see, so what are the rules at the moment in relation to this?

 

[Dave1987]

Enforced overtime to extend to a 11.5hr day, virtually rare for a passenger TOC and brings in life/work balance and fatigue issues.

Ah well that is not on. For my TOC it is currently 10hrs. That's a very long day for enforced overtime. No wonder they are striking over it.

 

[ComUtoR]

Ah well that is not on. For my TOC it is currently 10hrs. That's a very long day for enforced overtime. No wonder they are striking over it.

Ours is already 12

 

[Bellbell]

They went through it in detail on BBC radio wales on the strike day. Even aslef said there are no new changes to conditions.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And it was the guy from aslef and rmt saying this not some news presenter. Unless they can't be believed either?

I didn't hear it so just speculation but I wonder whether the union rep was saying there had been no changes since the previous offer? I.e the company hadn't changed their offer at all.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Ah well that is not on. For my TOC it is currently 10hrs. That's a very long day for enforced overtime. No wonder they are striking over it.

10hrs max turn for drivers and Guards with west side Northern.

 

[notadriver]

Ours is already 12

That's not right. Mainline and metro can only be diagrammed 9h15 Max.

 

[Dave1987]

Ours is already 12

Ouch!! I feel your pain

 

[ComUtoR]

That's not right. Mainline and metro can only be diagrammed 9h15 Max.

Sadly its correct.

There is a difference between diagrammed hours and forced overtime. We can work up to 12hrs before the company has to take us of duty. I'm not privvy to what the ATW strike specifics are, neither their terms and conditions.

Our "forced overtime" is related to service disruption. Our SP turn "overtime" issues are often called "forced "overtime but it has only been rostered up to max turn length.

There is another clause where we can be rostered up to 12 hrs too. That has recently happened and will be happening again soon.

Any change that allows the company to extend your duty or give them the ability to roster you an 11.5hr day I would outright refuse.

Oh and to really turn the knife. Until the recent pay deal it was unpaid overtime too.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Ours is already 12

So what happens if there is disruption? I always got told that TOC's will only allow Safety Critical staff to go past 12 hours in exceptional circumstances?

 

[ComUtoR]

Precisely my point. I assume you didn't see the other post.

We already have the clause where there is disruption you can be out there for 12 hrs. Even after 12hrs there has been incidents where Drivers have been left out on the running line.

As notadriver points out. Our booked max day is 9h15m Everything over that used to be free. Even that 9hr 15m can be extended to 12rs.

I don't wish to hijack the thread as I wish to respect my fellow colleagues and I can sympathise with their plight.

 

[455driver]

Enforced overtime to extend to a 11.5hr day, virtually rare for a passenger TOC and brings in life/work balance and fatigue issues.

Save your breath, I posted all that earlier in the thread but they still don't/wont understand what the strikes are actually about! :roll:

 

[FordFocus]

Save your breath, I posted all that earlier in the thread but they still don't/wont understand what the strikes are actually about! :roll:

Me, you and several others have explained the same thing too many times now. If people want details, read the thread.

 

[A-driver]

Me, you and several others have explained the same thing too many times now. If people want details, read the thread.

People don't want details. They want to come on here and rant about how ungrateful and selfish these overpaid 'stop/go' button pushers are. After all nurses work longer hours for less pay and many others have been shafted out of any kind of decent pay and work/life balance so it's about time rail staff joined the masses at the bottom isn't it?

They want their rant to be followed by lots of 'Amen to that' posts and a few train drivers apologising for daring to stand up for themselves.

Details and the truth are an inconvinience and no ones really interested in them. The daily mail said the union are nasty and evil so that must be the truth...

 

[Dave1987]

Precisely my point. I assume you didn't see the other post.

We already have the clause where there is disruption you can be out there for 12 hrs. Even after 12hrs there has been incidents where Drivers have been left out on the running line.

As notadriver points out. Our booked max day is 9h15m Everything over that used to be free. Even that 9hr 15m can be extended to 12rs.

I don't wish to hijack the thread as I wish to respect my fellow colleagues and I can sympathise with their plight.

It's not hijacking the thread as you are explaining the reasons for the subject of the thread.

Our max turn length is 10hrs, I along with most other drivers I know are happy to work for longer as the DTM's will usually be helpful to you in the future. This says to me that ATW are trying to ensure they can force drivers to work way over their diagramed hrs in times of disruption.

 

[455driver]

Me, you and several others have explained the same thing too many times now. If people want details, read the thread.

But its easier just to blame the greedy drivers and militant unions isn't it!

Obviously the whole Country is in a Militant mood with GWR Guards, ATW drivers, LU drivers, junior Doctors etc (I am sure there is somebody else but cant think of them ) all going on strike, I mean it could never, ever be the Government trying to put the 'little' man back in his place where he belongs could it?

 

[Wales_Commuter]

Ah I see, so what are the rules at the moment in relation to this?

Anyone know the answer to this?