ATW Class 150 withdrawn by 2020?

[Jona26]

An article on the Wrexham Leader website about waste from non-retention tank toilets spraying on gardens near the railway line has the following quote from ATW:

All rolling stock built prior to 1997 will be withdrawn from operation by 2020.

Full article...

 

[TheWalrus]

So that eliminates most DMUs by 2020? That can't be a good thing!

 

[Parallel]

I doubt this will actually happen, as that would mean 158s will be withdrawn 6 years from now at the longest, and considering the recent refurbishments and how much Arriva rely on them - It's not going to happen.

The pacers, maybe - I can't even see Sprinters being phased out by that point.

 

[Michael.Y]

Given that Arriva's franchise is up in 2018 and with no guarantee of a renewal, why would they commit to a date that will possibly not be under their control?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Given that Arriva's franchise is up in 2018 and with no guarantee of a renewal, why would they commit to a date that will possibly not be under their control?

Reading the article it appears the suggestion that all pre 97 stock is withdrawn by 2020 comes from Network Rail.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That's just not true.
Trains which don't conform to modern accessibility regulations have to comply by 2020 but they will mostly be upgraded rather than withdrawn.

The retention toilet issue is a persistent problem but there are no regulations forcing a change.
If there were, it would kill off the idea of using HSTs on north-south services.

For ATW, the 158s cannot be withdrawn as they are the only trains able to work the Cambrian ERTMS signalling system.
There is no plan to fit any other DMU type with ETCS kit.

 

[TDK]

That's just not true.
Trains which don't conform to modern accessibility regulations have to comply by 2020 but they will mostly be upgraded rather than withdrawn.

The retention toilet issue is a persistent problem but there are no regulations forcing a change.
If there were, it would kill off the idea of using HSTs on north-south services.

For ATW, the 158s cannot be withdrawn as they are the only trains able to work the Cambrian ERTMS signalling system.
There is no plan to fit any other DMU type with ETCS kit.

I find this article hard to believe because at this lady's location the speed of a train will never be over 30mph as if it was the driver would have a station over run and leaving Shotton for Harwarden the speed will be 25mph at most so how can any effluent be sprayed so far at this speed? I have not seen any solid evidence from the claim and there are a lot of birds in the area :roll:

 

[David Barrett]

If the gardens are that bad how come the trains aren't covered in gunge? A story lacking in credibility I fancy.

 

[Suraggu]

All rolling stock has to be DDA compliant for all Train Operating Company's by 2019 and the rolling stock company's wont be making class 142/143 compliant.

Its over disabled access, toilet, getting on and off trains etc.

 

[455driver]

I find this article hard to believe because at this lady's location the speed of a train will never be over 30mph as if it was the driver would have a station over run and leaving Shotton for Harwarden the speed will be 25mph at most so how can any effluent be sprayed so far at this speed? I have not seen any solid evidence from the claim and there are a lot of birds in the area :roll:

Snigger!
Freudian slip?

 

[kieron]

Trains which don't conform to modern accessibility regulations have to comply by 2020 but they will mostly be upgraded rather than withdrawn.

It may be true that all pre-1997 stock would be withdrawn if the choice was between compliance and withdrawal, but the government has wide powers to permit non-compliant trains to be used after 2020. If you look on the DfT's compliance pages, there's a letter allowing 156s to continue operating with external doors which are too narrow. They don't have anything like that up for 153s (which have the same problem) or 143s but there's plenty of time yet.

And my guess would be that the effluent could have reached that far owing to a gust of wind. The railway is pretty exposed there, after all.

 

[Muzer]

All rolling stock has to be DDA compliant for all Train Operating Company's by 2019 and the rolling stock company's wont be making class 142/143 compliant.

Its over disabled access, toilet, getting on and off trains etc.

Porterbrook have developed a refurbishment plan for their 143s and 144s, but Angel have no plans to refurbish their 142s.

 

[Beveridges]

Toilet Retention Tanks are not a good thing for everyone. Think of the depot staff who have to suck the s**t out of them.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Or the passenger who finds that the toilets are out of use because someone at the depot didn't suck the s**t out of them!

That said, it can't be pleasant for a track worker to get sprayed by the discharge from an HST at speed.

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

Don't know what the gardeners are moaning about.Who else gets free manure.

 

[northwichcat]

Porterbrook are proposing the following work to their 150s as standard by 2020:
* Full PRM-TSI compliance
* Alternator Replacement
* Fitting bar couplers at intermediate positions
* Earth test points
* Auxiliary heater change
* Renew electrical boxes
* Install CET tanks

And as possible enhancements:
* Fire system renewal
* New interiors
* Engine Centrifugal oil filtration
* Voith Cardan Shaft
* Fuel Saving initiatives
* Remote door monitoring
* LED lighting

Full details: http://www.porterbrook.com/downloads/brochures/150 Brochure.pdf

So the issue with the toilet dumping on the track would be dealt with at the same time an accessible toilet is fitted.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

All rolling stock has to be DDA compliant for all Train Operating Company's by 2019 and the rolling stock company's wont be making class 142/143 compliant.

Actually Porterbrook have got options for making 143s and 144s complaint: http://www.porterbrook.com/downloads/brochures/14x Brochure.pdf Apparently they just need to find a victim to agree to sign them on a 10 year lease.

 

[cjmillsnun]

That's just not true.
Trains which don't conform to modern accessibility regulations have to comply by 2020 but they will mostly be upgraded rather than withdrawn.

The retention toilet issue is a persistent problem but there are no regulations forcing a change.
If there were, it would kill off the idea of using HSTs on north-south services.

For ATW, the 158s cannot be withdrawn as they are the only trains able to work the Cambrian ERTMS signalling system.
There is no plan to fit any other DMU type with ETCS kit.

It's perfectly possible to convert the Mk3 coach to have retention toilets. The 442s had them from new, and Chiltern's power door Mk3s have been converted.

Having said that, most HSTs (those that don't get preserved or remain with FGW) will probably have felt the hot breath of oxy-acetalene by 2020 or will be waiting to. (not a thought that makes me happy)