ATW advance tickets

[Crispy75]

Booking a journey to Haverfordwest this September, and I want to split the tickets between First Great Western and Arriva Wales in order to get Groupsave4 on the the FGW portion (ATW don't participate in that scheme). However, FGW, ATW or thetrainline websites will only offer anytime singles for the NWP/CDF>HVF journey, no matter which date/time I choose.

If I put PAD>HVF into the FGW website, it will sell me an advance single for the entire trip, but won't apply the Groupsave discount to the FGW portion of the journey.

Is this just ATW being weird?

I'm going to have to go to a station to buy these aren't I? :roll:

 

[OwlMan]

Advanced tickets do not exist for the route Newport/Cardiff to Haverfordwest, you will need to buy "offpeak" or "anytime" tickets. You may find it cheaper to buy advanced tickets for thw whole journey rather than trying to split tickets

Peter

 

[hairyhandedfool]

You are not being offered advance fares for CDF/NWP-HVF because no advance fares exist for that journey.

 

[FGWman]

Arriva dont do group save As a result you cant buy group save tickets where arriva set the fare. There version is small group day which gives about 20% off the journey.

 

[Crispy75]

Advanced tickets do not exist for the route Newport/Cardiff to Haverfordwest, you will need to buy "offpeak" or "anytime" tickets. You may find it cheaper to buy advanced tickets for thw whole journey rather than trying to split tickets

Peter

Ah, well that explains things
Advance singles for the whole journey it is then!

FGWman: unfortunately, the arriva group tickets can only be bought in wales!

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

 

[OwlMan]

If you can tell us what dates you are travelling and at what times and when you are returning I could find the cheapest way for you.

 

[John @ home]

Booking a journey to Haverfordwest this September, and I want to split the tickets between First Great Western and Arriva Wales in order to get Groupsave4 on the the FGW portion (ATW don't participate in that scheme).

Agreed. ATW don't participate in GroupSave. Splitting at an appropriate point seems likely to give you the minimum total cost for flexible tickets.

FGW, ATW or thetrainline websites will only offer anytime singles for the NWP/CDF>HVF journey, no matter which date/time I choose.

There are no Advance fares between Newport, Cardiff or Swansea and Haverfordwest. But there are Off-Peak Returns:

NEWPORT S WALES - HAVERFORDWEST SVR £31.40 8A
CARDIFF CENTRAL - HAVERFORDWEST SVR £25.70 8A
SWANSEA - HAVERFORDWEST SVR £18.00 8A

In each case Restriction 8A means

Outward Travel Valid by any train. Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities.
Return Travel Valid by any train.

If I put PAD>HVF into the FGW website, it will sell me an advance single for the entire trip, but won't apply the Groupsave discount to the FGW portion of the journey.

Is this just ATW being weird?

No. Advance tickets do not attract GroupSave discount. The GroupSave page on the National Rail Enquiries site explains that Three or four adults or children can travel for the price of two adults on various off-peak ticket types where the whole journey is made using c2c, Chiltern Railways, First Capital Connect, First Great Western, London Midland, London Overground, National Express East Anglia (not Stansted Express services), Southeastern, Southern and/or South West Trains.

FGW give GroupSave discount on their Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak fares.

I'm going to have to go to a station to buy these aren't I?

No.

The lowest Advance single London - Haverfordwest appears to be £15. This gives a minimum price for your party of 4 of 8 x £15 = £120 for the return journey if you can find Advance fares at that price.

The lowest flexible return tickets appear to be Super Off-Peak Returns London - Swansea £69, or £138 for 4 with GroupSave 4 discount. Then Off-Peak Returns Swansea - Haverfordwest are £18, or £76 for 4, giving a total cost by flexible tickets of £214.

Both these options can be bought at firstgreatwestern.co.uk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

you cant buy group save tickets where arriva set the fare

That's inaccurate. FGW will sell tickets with GroupSave discount where the whole journey is by the train companies listed above, irrespective of who sets the fare.

Last month I bought GroupSave 4 Off-Peak Returns Cardiff - Tenby on the FGW web site. The fare is set by ATW. There are only 15 FGW trains a year Cardiff - Tenby, but the times suited me.

 

[Crispy75]

FGW's super offpeak tickets are the same price as their advance tickets (unless you get the real earlybird one I think), so groupsave still makes sense if you're only going to Cardiff.

If you can tell us what dates you are travelling and at what times and when you are returning I could find the cheapest way for you.

That would be great!

02/09/11 - PAD>HVF - would like to arrive in the afternoon while there's a decent amount of daylight left.
09/09/11 - HVF>PAD - departing any time after 1200

I was going to get Groupsave 4, as our 4th person is still undecided (IME, guards will let a party of 3 through if you've got all 4 tickets), but to be on the save side, assume there's 3 of us. Best I can manage is £155 all in, which means coming back at 1723

 

[John @ home]

You may find splitting at Swansea cheaper, eg.

Fri 2 Sep
1045 Paddington - Swansea 1343 3 @ £16=£48
Swansea - Haverfordwest 3 Arriva Wales Small Group Day Returns @ £10=£30
(throw away return portions after use)

Fri 9 Sep
1723 Haverfordwest - 1957 Cardiff 2025 - Paddington 2245 3 @ £15=£45

Total for 3 = £123

 

[Crispy75]

Nicely done Means a 54m change at Swansea on the way out though...

Arrgh, so complicated!

Thanks for all the help again.

 

[OwlMan]

To save on the outward fare. There are £15 advance tickets available on the 1245 from Paddington to Pembroke.

Tickets to Pembroke are allowed to be used to Haverfordwest

The Manual
Destination inter-availability in West Wales

All tickets to destinations Whitland and west thereof issued for travel from stations east of Carmarthen will be valid as follows:

• Where the origin/destination on the ticket is Pembroke or Pembroke Dock, customers may use the ticket to travel from/to Haverfordwest, Milford Haven or Fishguard Harbour as an alternative origin/destination.
• Where the origin/destination on the ticket is Haverfordwest or Milford Haven, customers may use the ticket to travel from/to Pembroke, Pembroke Dock or Fishguard Harbour as an alternative origin/destination.
• Where the origin/destination is Fishguard Harbour, customers may use the ticket to travel from/to Pembroke, Pembroke Dock, Milford Haven or Haverfordwest origin/destination.

Peter

 

[Crispy75]

Oh, now THAT is worth knowing! Even the earlier depatures are as low as 18.50 - Just to double check, Advance tickets are normally only for "the train specified" , but we'd be changing onto a different train at Swansea in order to reach HVF. Still ok?

EDIT: may have to print off your Manual quote for the guard

 

[John @ home]

I would be confident using that Easement because it starts All Tickets ... not Some Tickets ... .

 

[Crispy75]

That's reassuring. Previous experience on the route tells me that tickets are rarely checked beyond Carmarthen anyway. I think that's everything sorted now. Not a bad result - £156 reduced to £100 and without having to alter the travel times significantly. Thanks for the final time

 

[yorkie]

Arrgh, so complicated!

Indeed. ATOC propaganda says it's Simple but we all know that getting a fare that does not rip you off is often anything but simple.

As for the easement, I have taken advantage of it in the past. I can't remember whether our tickets were checked or not. I don't think we encountered any problems. However it's worth printing that easement anyway so you can quote it to any guards who have been given insufficient training and are unaware of it.

Perhaps slightly iffy on an Advance though, I suspect HHF would not be happy about that.

Though if it is "unclear", then you could argue that there is that often-quoted legislation that deals with situations where there is doubt over the rules, that states that the ruling should be made in the passengers favour.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Destination inter-availability in West Wales

All tickets to destinations Whitland and west thereof issued for travel from stations east of Carmarthen will be valid as follows:

Where the origin/destination on the ticket is Pembroke or Pembroke Dock, customers may use the ticket to travel from/to Haverfordwest, Milford Haven or Fishguard Harbour as an alternative origin/destination.
Where the origin/destination on the ticket is Haverfordwest or Milford Haven, customers may use the ticket to travel from/to Pembroke, Pembroke Dock or Fishguard Harbour as an alternative origin/destination.
Where the origin/destination is Fishguard Harbour, customers may use the ticket to travel from/to Pembroke, Pembroke Dock, Milford Haven or Haverfordwest origin/destination.

That's not very clear. The first bit "All tickets to destinations Whitland and west thereof" suggests that all tickets where the origin/destination is any station on the any of the 3 west Wales branches are valid to any other of these stations (inc. the request stops) or at least to one of the main stations in the area. However, the later part seems to suggest that the easement only has any effect if the origin/destination is one of Fishguard Harbour, Pembroke, Pembroke Dock, Milford Haven or Haverfordwest. eg. the first bit suggests getting off at Johnston, Tenby or Narberth on a ticket to Fishguard Harbour would be valid, however the second bit suggests none of these are valid and if you are using this ticket but are not on the Fishguard train you have to alight at Pembroke, Pembroke Dock, Milford Haven or Haverfordwest instead.

There are no Advance fares between Newport, Cardiff or Swansea and Haverfordwest.

-------Section Ommited-----------

The lowest Advance single London - Haverfordwest appears to be £15. This gives a minimum price for your party of 4 of 8 x £15 = £120 for the return journey if you can find Advance fares at that price.

Ahh, Arriva's lack of advanced fares between west Wales and Cardiff/Swansea, the cause of my many frustrated hours trying to get me and a few other family members down to relations in Havant at a reasonable price. So you can get advanced fares to London? They never seemed to exist when I was trying to head south without spiltting at Cardiff at getting an advance ticket east of there only so I assumed the change of operator had somthing to do with it, since Whitland to Crewe on the service from Fishguard (with a change at Cardiff onto the WAG Express) had advance fares so it wasn't a change of trains that was stopping advance fares being available. Are advance fares with a change of operator from ATW to FGW a new thing or is it just getting from west Wales onto the Portsmouth - Cardiff that doesn't work?

 

[John @ home]

That's not very clear. The first bit "All tickets to destinations Whitland and west thereof" suggests that all tickets where the origin/destination is any station on the any of the 3 west Wales branches are valid to any other of these stations (inc. the request stops) or at least to one of the main stations in the area. However, the later part seems to suggest that the easement only has any effect if the origin/destination is one of Fishguard Harbour, Pembroke, Pembroke Dock, Milford Haven or Haverfordwest. eg. the first bit suggests getting off at Johnston, Tenby or Narberth on a ticket to Fishguard Harbour would be valid, however the second bit suggests none of these are valid and if you are using this ticket but are not on the Fishguard train you have to alight at Pembroke, Pembroke Dock, Milford Haven or Haverfordwest instead.

My interpretation would be that you can use a ticket from east of Carmarthen - Fishguard to Pembroke Dock instead in all circumstances. If instead you wish to alight at Johnston, Tenby or Narberth, you may do this if and only if your ticket is of a type which permits break of the relevant leg of the journey.

Are advance fares with a change of operator from ATW to FGW a new thing or is it just getting from west Wales onto the Portsmouth - Cardiff that doesn't work?

Advance fares are neither Regulated nor Protected fares. Train companies, and combinations of train companies, are free to introduce or abolish them if they see a financial benefit in doing so.