ATW 153 replaces 175

[merlodlliw]

ATW used a 153 on the Manchester Picc to Llandudno run on Monday 2nd Nov
This service is normally a 2-car 175 unit; was it decided to try out this experimentally 'souped-up' railcar on a main line diagram? The engine has been uprated from the usual 285hp up to 310hp; hopefully to get away from stations more quickly. No doubt passengers were delighted with the extra comfort for the two hour run


source & pic noticeboard 6th Nov www.nwrail.org.uk

 

[Crossforth]

Seems rather odd when a 175 can do 100mph compared to a 153s 75mph

 

[emoaconr]

ATW's 153's are in a terrible state of affairs. Even their 158's aren't quite as bad, and that's saying something.

 

[Lampshade]

An extra 25bhp? Bet that was negated by the weight of the passengers so in terms of power to weight, it was essentially running ECS.

 

[Greenback]

I feel sorry for the passengers - such units should be confined to Central Wales, Pembrok Dock and Fisguard Harbour!

 

[TDK]

ATW used a 153 on the Manchester Picc to Llandudno run on Monday 2nd Nov
This service is normally a 2-car 175 unit; was it decided to try out this experimentally 'souped-up' railcar on a main line diagram? The engine has been uprated from the usual 285hp up to 310hp; hopefully to get away from stations more quickly. No doubt passengers were delighted with the extra comfort for the two hour run


source & pic noticeboard 6th Nov www.nwrail.org.uk

Salop to London Next when the 158's are not avaialble

 

[O L Leigh]

It's still better than a train cancellation.

O L Leigh

 

[Greenback]

Perhaps not if the single car is wedged and you have to travel the whole way wedged next to the toilet door, trying to squeeze up to let people through to use it! I think I'd wait an hour for a better train if I wasn't in a hurry!

 

[emoaconr]

The 155 'Super Sprinter' units were built for more longer distance journeys before they were downgraded to a 153, however.

Would this discussion be different if a 2 car 155 worked this? (not that I support either proposition)

 

[Greenback]

As far a I'm concerned, yes! Although I find the 153's to be inferior to a 175, my main gripe is with capacity. They were converted into single car units to work on rural branch lines, like Pembroke Dock, Looe or Central Wales, with the added flexibility of being able to run together as two cars if necessary. I have been unfortunate enough to be stuck on a very full single car 153 on quite a few occasons - they are abit more comfortable if you are able to 'stretch out a bit'!

 

[tbtc]

The 155 'Super Sprinter' units were built for more longer distance journeys before they were downgraded to a 153, however.

Would this discussion be different if a 2 car 155 worked this? (not that I support either proposition)

I agree with you. And, there's therefore no diffference between the comfort on a 153 to a 155 (assuming you can get a seat on the shorter unit).

This could easily have been cancelled, or replaced by a coach; credit to the operator for putting something else on (did they find something longer to run west of Cardiff?)

Personally, I'd use 153s on some early morning/ late night services run by other longer trains; they'd be fine for the overnight Transpennine Manchester Airport services, for example
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As far a I'm concerned, yes! Although I find the 153's to be inferior to a 175, my main gripe is with capacity. They were converted into single car units to work on rural branch lines, like Pembroke Dock, Looe or Central Wales,

To be cynical (for a change!), they were converted because it was cheaper than building more 155/ 156s, not specifically for rural routes

 

[Greenback]

I thought the railway magazines reported that it was for use on low density branches when the work was carried out, but I'd have to search back through tem now to check! I could be wrong!

 

[Helvellyn]

Government funding had to be agreed for the conversion. After the various problems the 155s had rebuilding them allowed Regional Railways to be rid of a troublesome 2-car unit. It also allowed first generation DMUs to be withdrawn from lightly used rural routes rather than build something new. They pretty much were for rural routes, though after privatisation they started moving around and TOCs used them as they saw fit, including strengthening two-car trains, etc.

I think when these originally come to be replaced, DDA requirements will mean it will have to be by two-car units as a single car won't have enough seats with a loo and disabled spaces to meet the DDA.

Towards the second half of the next decade some serious thought will have to be given to what will replace Pacers and Sprinters (including 153s), where there is a requirement in Northern PTE areas and the Cardiff Valleys for a suburban unit (likely 3+2 seating and possibly 3-cars) and in rural areas something lower density (likely 2+2 seating and possibly 2-cars).

 

[merlodlliw]

Having spoken to ATW staff last night at a meeting , Charlie Humes story is correct, this was a trial run day on a main line, this 153 was not used due to lack of a 175 availability.

 

[Greenback]

Oh dear, does this mean they are intendigto run more of them on the North Wales main line?

 

[tbtc]

I think when these originally come to be replaced, DDA requirements will mean it will have to be by two-car units as a single car won't have enough seats with a loo and disabled spaces to meet the DDA.

Towards the second half of the next decade some serious thought will have to be given to what will replace Pacers and Sprinters (including 153s), where there is a requirement in Northern PTE areas and the Cardiff Valleys for a suburban unit (likely 3+2 seating and possibly 3-cars) and in rural areas something lower density (likely 2+2 seating and possibly 2-cars).

You make a good point.

The cynic in me wondered whether the "tram train" trial for the Penistone branch was intended as a blue print for these machines, with no toilet because it's easier to have no toilet (no wasted space, fewer parts to go wrong etc) than it is to have a fully DDA complaint one.

We do need a Pacer repalcement; cascading Sprinters won't work on all lines

 

[Greenback]

Agreed. Although surely a toilet is required for longer journeys, such as Heart of Wales, which are popular with tourists in the Summer and not just for people making short trips!

 

[merlodlliw]

Oh dear, does this mean they are intendigto run more of them on the North Wales main line?

I enjoy the comfort of the 175, Chester to Man Picc, there is more to testing this relic of the past than meets the eye on the main line

 

[Greenback]

Having spoken to ATW staff last night at a meeting , Charlie Humes story is correct, this was a trial run day on a main line, this 153 was not used due to lack of a 175 availability.

I enjoy the comfort of the 175, Chester to Man Picc, there is more to testing this relic of the past than meets the eye on the main line

Down here I like the 175's on the Carmarthen/Milford Haven - Manchester service. I try to avoid the 153's for my Llanelli - Swansea and vice versa journeys even though it's only an 18 minute run!

 

[merlodlliw]

Down here I like the 175's on the Carmarthen/Milford Haven - Manchester service. I try to avoid the 153's for my Llanelli - Swansea and vice versa journeys even though it's only an 18 minute run!

Interesting station Carmarthen, I was there last Wednesday,up & down on the same platform, I was surprised how many ATW staff were on duty for the
hourly service each way. The blocked off line towards the bridge, where did that go to. And out of interest the FGW Paddington to Carmarthen once a day
& return, where is this HST stabled,is it Swansea?

 

[Greenback]

Interesting station Carmarthen, I was there last Wednesday,up & down on the same platform, I was surprised how many ATW staff were on duty for the
hourly service each way. The blocked off line towards the bridge, where did that go to.

That was the route of the line to Aberystwyth. The bridge across the river beyond the station was still there up until about 1983 I think. Freight trains continued to run towards Lampeter and Newcastle Emlyn long after passenger trains ceased. The northern part around Aber was riped up pretty quickly though from what I have read.

There are usually a lot of staff about as there is a traincrew depot there, and drivers and guards seem to change over there at certain times of the day. They sometimes use the second platform, which you can walk to behind the buffers, though the timetable seems to be designed to mostly use only one platform in the normal course of events.

 

[FLUB#1]

153320 was used to replace a defective 175/0, it was a last resort decision to save cancelling the train.

ATW had trouble with 175s that day as 150253 was also unusually on a Llandudno Manchester diagram.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

Do 153's and 150/2's have the same cummins engines out of interest?
Interesting to see they've upgraded the power figures on a 153. Could make all the difference when running such units down the marches as they always lose a fair amount of time.

 

[O L Leigh]

The Cl153 is a very heavy unit. A single car weighs 41.2 tonnes compared to 36.1 tonnes for a Cl156 DMSL and 38.5 tonnes for a Cl150 DMS. All of these early classes of 75mph Sprinters have the same 285bhp Cummins engines but if any class needs the extra poke it's the Cl153's.

O L Leigh

 

[merlodlliw]

Thanks Greenback for that interesting info. Now I understand why there were so many ATW types around the station[/QUOTE]

 

[323235]

Do 153's and 150/2's have the same cummins engines out of interest?
Interesting to see they've upgraded the power figures on a 153. Could make all the difference when running such units down the marches as they always lose a fair amount of time.

yep Class 150s,153s,155s and 156s all have 213kw (285hp) Cummins NT855R5 Engines.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

so theoretically although unlikely, you could tune up the engines on a 150/2 to 310hp and have some awesome acceleration... could work quite well up the marches (maybe I'm just a big excited from my knowledge of car modifying haha)

 

[Greenback]

Thanks Greenback for that interesting info. Now I understand why there were so many ATW types around the station

[/QUOTE]

No problem, I seem to have a good memory of stuff I have read about the closure of rail lines. I do also like the Disused Railways website that has been mentioned on here a few times!

 

[WillPS]

It's still better than a train cancellation.

O L Leigh

Not really - if you have an advance ticket, and your train shows up but ridiculously short-formed - it's still your job to pack yourself on somehow.

I think I'd prefer a cancellation.

 

[Flywaver]

I know in the Central days the 170s were only tuned to 85-90% power for reliability purposes. Driving them now on XC its no different so no Hyperdrive fitted yet...