Attitudes to new staff

[stjimmy87]

Afternoon folks

As someone who is on the verge of landing a job on the railway, I was wondering if some experienced drivers could tell me what attitudes towards new drivers are like?

I mean this in the sense that a new driver might be slightly slow or prone to being delayed as driving alone for the first time is completely different from having someone in the cab with you. In my current job as a Tram driver I have experienced new drivers who struggle to keep to time in what can be quite a tight timetable. Sometimes control room staff can come across as quite impatient when you end up running a few minutes late purely because you are not quite up to speed yet. Is this the same on the railway? Also as a new driver and you were delayed for whatever reason, who would give you a hard time, NR signaller or your manager?

I get that the training on the railway is much more in depth and above all longer and better but we are only human and sometimes it takes people longer to get used to what is a complex job.

 

[185]

Well this confirms that Control Room staff at more than one tram company are in fact pretty similar in their constant badgering ultimately leading to staff spadding or wrong-routeing. "Set 12 state your location please...." - they already know, why ask?

The railway went through a brief phase of punctuality stupidity around ten years ago. At one investigation, a train company had to admit the Duty Manager was on a hefty bonus to push punctuality (PPM) above 95% using any means possible - not limited to driving routes not signed, driving traction not signed, major rule book breaches and so on and so forth. The railway do now seem to have a bit more of a grown up attitude, in fairness.

FirstGroup "Cant do it safe, don't do it." - lol

 

[Bromley boy]

Afternoon folks

As someone who is on the verge of landing a job on the railway, I was wondering if some experienced drivers could tell me what attitudes towards new drivers are like?

I mean this in the sense that a new driver might be slightly slow or prone to being delayed as driving alone for the first time is completely different from having someone in the cab with you. In my current job as a Tram driver I have experienced new drivers who struggle to keep to time in what can be quite a tight timetable. Sometimes control room staff can come across as quite impatient when you end up running a few minutes late purely because you are not quite up to speed yet. Is this the same on the railway? Also as a new driver and you were delayed for whatever reason, who would give you a hard time, NR signaller or your manager?

I get that the training on the railway is much more in depth and above all longer and better but we are only human and sometimes it takes people longer to get used to what is a complex job.

You’ll find things are much better on the railway in this respect.

No one will give you a hard time for being late - safety comes first and there is absolutely no expectation that you should rush or try to make up time (indeed making up time is usually impossible anyway at a commuter TOC like mine).

Timings are tight and generally if a train is late in it is late out, nobody is put under pressure to rush. In fact, quite the opposite. If you are running late and have an incident due to rushing, you will have the book thrown at you!

EDIT: my manager actually told me he expected to see a lot of delay reports in my first few weeks of driving on my own.

If there is a delay you may be asked for the reason but this is purely for attribution of the delay minutes between the TOC and NR, nothing to do with apportioning blame.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

If there is a delay you may be asked for the reason but this is purely for attribution of the delay minutes between the TOC and NR, nothing to do with apportioning blame.

Exactly this. There is even a delay attribution code for "new driver", in other words there is every expectation that new drivers will take a little while to gain the precise train handling skills needed for punctual running. In practice the difference is not great. The only time I became aware of it the driver had warned me at the start of the journey, which was starting in daylight but would finish in darkness, that they had little experience of stopping at the small halts en route, served only every two hours or so and not at all in the evening, and that accordingly their approach to said stops might be a little cautious. You need not worry about this!

 

[whoosh]

You are better off taking your time and getting it right than messing up.

Safety first, punctuality second. You'll quicken up when you settle in.

Also, you may well get asked why you'e lost x minutes here or there. Just say you are a new driver following the Professional Driving Policy.
A lot of drivers think they are getting hassled when asked about delays, but the delay attribution clerk just needs a reason to put down so someone pays for the delay.
The company should've set aside a budget for driver related delays, and should've increased that budget if there are lots of new recruits. If they haven't, that's their problem.

It'll only be if you are consistently losing time after a few months when you might flag up on a radar, and then it'll just be being put with an instructor to try and work on whatever area it is that you are slow at.
I've never known that to happen - after a few months on your own, you naturally improve your pace as you get more confident and used to what you are doing.

 

[DanDaDriver]

You’ll struggle to be late as a depot driver anyway. Can’t be too tightly timed at 5mph.

They’ll be understanding with you if you go mainline though. Timetable is the last thing you worry about when it goes t*ts up / running on cautionary aspects.

 

[Highlandspring]

There is even a delay attribution code for "new driver"

No there isn’t, unless you mean an incorrect application of TW which is “Driver adhering to company professional driving standards or policy”.

 

[Bromley boy]

No there isn’t, unless you mean an incorrect application of TW which is “Driver adhering to company professional driving standards or policy”.

I have no idea what the precise codes are, and they aren’t particularly relevant to this discussion.

What I do know is that I’ve lost time for various reasons, including “driving to conditions”, running on restrictive aspects, having to use the toilet between trips, I have always given these reasons honestly and frankly when asked by delay attribution and never had a word said about it. So have many of my colleagues.

If you’re late into a London terminal on a 8 minute turnaround with a 10 car train, with rush hour crowds on the platform, you’re certainly going to be late back out. The last thing you do is rush changing ends and setting the cab up.

Of course nobody wants to run late but when the job is t*ts up, or during leaf fall, there’s simply no way to make the time back up.

If you consistently lost 10 minutes on every trip it might point towards a problem with driving, but of course that’s highly unlikely by the time a driver is passed out.

Overall what the OP has described simply isn’t an issue on the railway. In fact I’m surprised, and rather worried, that tram drivers are apparently harassed about late running.

That’s one good thing about the culture on the railway. There’s a lot of pressure, drivers are expected to get it right each and every time but at least there is leeway to take your time, do the job properly and not make mistakes.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Well this confirms that Control Room staff at more than one tram company are in fact pretty similar in their constant badgering ultimately leading to staff spadding or wrong-routeing. "Set 12 state your location please...." - they already know, why ask?

The railway went through a brief phase of punctuality stupidity around ten years ago. At one investigation, a train company had to admit the Duty Manager was on a hefty bonus to push punctuality (PPM) above 95% using any means possible - not limited to driving routes not signed, driving traction not signed, major rule book breaches and so on and so forth. The railway do now seem to have a bit more of a grown up attitude, in fairness.

FirstGroup "Cant do it safe, don't do it." - lol

Your last sentence, YES, YES, YES!
Safety, Safety until it costs money, then ah well...crack on!

 

[Tomnick]

I'm pretty certain that you'll feel a bit of pressure from shunters and the like. They know full well that trainees and new drivers invariably, naturally, take a bit longer to do things, but they're an impatient bunch at times and even experienced drivers sometimes get grief from them when the job (for whatever reason) isn't progressing as quickly as they like...

Just don't rise to it, do the job as you're trained to do it and don't let yourself put pressure on.

At a higher level, delay attribution and that, it's unlikely that you'll manage to cause any problems in that respect on shed anyway. It's only something like taking way in excess of the allowed time for prepping units, causing it to be a late start from the station, that'll be picked up on, but even then it's unlikely to become an issue unless it's a regular feature!

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

No there isn’t, unless you mean an incorrect application of TW which is “Driver adhering to company professional driving standards or policy”.

Your comment having prompted me to carry out a little research I found that the Delay Attribution Guide was re-issued in April 2017 (available at: http://www.delayattributionboard.co.uk/documents/dag_pdac/Current Delay Attribution Guide.pdf) which post dates my direct experience with delays. At the risk of going a little OT I would point out that while the guide goes into great detail about its use, particularly on the Network Rail side of things, there are some areas with almost no guidance. I also note that a code "TO" has been added (Time lost en-route believed to be Operator cause and information required from Operator (Ops Responsibility)): since this would require a note to be appended it would appear to be a legitimate way of recording time losses due to a new driver still gaining experience. Once again my apologies for the thread drift; I know many are intrigued by how delay attribution works and may well find the above link useful.

 

[Tomnick]

At the delay attribution level, I’d have thought that a “new” driver losing time would be treated no differently to an experienced driver losing time, attributed to the driver function and coded TG. The TOC might have a ‘budget’ of sorts with the expectation that new drivers will pick up a few delays, but that shouldn’t change how the delays are attributed.

 

[Chuggington21]

Afternoon folks

As someone who is on the verge of landing a job on the railway, I was wondering if some experienced drivers could tell me what attitudes towards new drivers are like?

I mean this in the sense that a new driver might be slightly slow or prone to being delayed as driving alone for the first time is completely different from having someone in the cab with you. In my current job as a Tram driver I have experienced new drivers who struggle to keep to time in what can be quite a tight timetable. Sometimes control room staff can come across as quite impatient when you end up running a few minutes late purely because you are not quite up to speed yet. Is this the same on the railway? Also as a new driver and you were delayed for whatever reason, who would give you a hard time, NR signaller or your manager?

I get that the training on the railway is much more in depth and above all longer and better but we are only human and sometimes it takes people longer to get used to what is a complex job.

I can only speak for my place of work. The majority of drivers are great the new guys willing to help and give advices on past experiences. In my place most don't care about delays even as experienced drivers. You do the best you can and If your late your late. In my place trainee and drivers in 1st year have a separate budget for delays as it's expected they will have more so the company budgets for it.

The things you have asked about you shouldn't even be worrying about it. Good luck

 

[stjimmy87]

Morning guys thanks for your responses.

Good to see there is some leeway given and thankfully I'm gonna be on depot to begin with so it will be good to get grounded and meet plenty of experienced people to learn from. Don't wanna run before I walk.

As a minder driver I have had instances where my driver's have been asked to swap with me at terminus' so it Knocks their confidence but in this job it's all timetable timetable and funes.

 

[sw1ller]

Absolute spot on advice here. As a new driver myself, I can confirm that what is said here is spot on. I only wanted to add that I phone control from the cab at the end of each run with delays to explain the reason. Since I started doing this my manager hasn’t rang me once and it keeps me off his radar. Not that I need to but it keeps me stress free. It also stops them asking 4 days after the delay when you can’t remember too.