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Hi, i quite like making my own silly announcements on uk rail generator but cant help noticing that ATOS Anne isn't there. You could say thats Anne is my favourite announcer so i was wondering if anyone knew of a website with her announcments on. Thanks!
Hi, i quite like making my own silly announcements on uk rail generator but cant help noticing that ATOS Anne isn't there. You could say thats Anne is my favourite announcer so i was wondering if anyone knew of a website with her announcments on. Thanks!
An open letter
To the users of Rail Announcements and all rail enthusiasts
On 17 August 2023, I received an email (found below) from Worldline's Northern Europe legal department. Attached was a letter titled "Your use of Worldline intellectual property". This letter noted my usage of Worldline's intellectual property (referring to the recordings of Atos Anne and Matt's announcements) and requested that I remove access to and destroy copies of these recordings.
Worldline are within their rights to request the removal of their intellectual property (IP), and I appreciate that they have directly contacted myself, as opposed to jumping to more severe actions such as issuing a DMCA takedown notice.
I am disappointed that Worldline have chosen to take this action, as I believe that the recordings of Atos's announcements are important to the history of the UK rail network. It is unrealistic to claim that this website harms Wordline's ability to sell their announcement systems to train operating companies and infrastructure managers.
I understand that in many jurisdictions, it is required for Worldline to enforce their IP in order to maintain their rights to it. Many solutions, including licensing, could have had the potential to allow me to continue to host these recordings in exchange for a licensing fee, however, from my understanding, Worldline are not interested in this, or are only willing to do so for exorbitant costs for an individual's passion project.
This site contains announcement snippets from a large variety of businesses, including Transport for London, Bombardier, and Siemens. None of these businesses have requested that I remove their announcements from this site (yet), and I am grateful for this.
To the users of this site, I would like to take the opportunity to thank you for your support and use of this website over the past few years. With help from social media, this has easily become one of my most popular websites. I am proud to have created something that has been enjoyed by so many people.
If Worldline would like to discuss this further, I would be happy to do so, but I do not believe that this will be the case.
For the sake of transparency, I have included all communication with Worldline below, censoring any personal information.
Hi, i quite like making my own silly announcements on uk rail generator but cant help noticing that ATOS Anne isn't there. You could say thats Anne is my favourite announcer so i was wondering if anyone knew of a website with her announcments on. Thanks!
There is a reason she is not on it. We got hold of the Atos Anne files through an unofficial source and they used to be on the rail announcements generator until Worldline made a legal threat. Worldline are jobsworths that seem to hate any enthusiasts having access to their files even if it is for non commercial purposes. Unfortunately there is zero chance that the Atos Anne files will be reuploaded to that site.
There is a reason she is not on it. We got hold of the Atos Anne files through an unofficial source and they used to be on the rail announcements generator until Worldline made a legal threat. Worldline are jobsworths that seem to hate any enthusiasts having access to their files even if it is for non commercial purposes. Unfortunately there is zero chance that the Atos Anne files will be reuploaded to that site.
Semi related query in regards to the website (can't find any other open threads on the topic) but is there any plans to add the SE specific announcements for Julie on XStar? At present it only allows for Southern style announcements with the name swapped to Southeastern/Connex, whereas to the extent of my knowledge they are formatted somewhat differently:
Approaching Station
Southern: "We are now approaching [Station]"
Southeastern: "We will shortly be arriving at [Station]"
Stopped At Station
Southern: "This is [Station]. This train is the Southern service to [Terminus] calling at [Intermediary Stops]. The next station is [Next Stop]."
Southeastern: "We have now arrived at [Station]. Welcome aboard this Southeastern service to [Terminus], calling at [Intermediary Stops]."
Departing Station
Southern: Welcome aboard the Southern service to [Terminus] The next station is [Next Stop]."
Southeastern: "This is a Southeastern service to [Terminus]. The next station is [Next Stop]."
[semi-off topic] Also quick thing to say about the website as well, there is no Shrewsbury file on the TfW televic announcements.
Its a really nice website and hope to see more added such as other station announcement voices
There is a reason she is not on it. We got hold of the Atos Anne files through an unofficial source and they used to be on the rail announcements generator until Worldline made a legal threat. Worldline are jobsworths that seem to hate any enthusiasts having access to their files even if it is for non commercial purposes. Unfortunately there is zero chance that the Atos Anne files will be reuploaded to that site.
Worldline employ people to read this forum (and, I assume, others) and look out for any such links.
If they find any links, they don't just go after the website hosting them, they go after the forum and the individual posting the links.
Don't underestimate how desperate they are to prevent distribution of these announcements and how ruthless they can be.
They will be reading this thread in due course, if they haven't read it already. They will be bookmarking it and monitoring it regularly in case anyone posts a link.
Semi related query in regards to the website (can't find any other open threads on the topic) but is there any plans to add the SE specific announcements for Julie on XStar? At present it only allows for Southern style announcements with the name swapped to Southeastern/Connex, whereas to the extent of my knowledge they are formatted somewhat differently:
Approaching Station
Southern: "We are now approaching [Station]"
Southeastern: "We will shortly be arriving at [Station]"
Stopped At Station
Southern: "This is [Station]. This train is the Southern service to [Terminus] calling at [Intermediary Stops]. The next station is [Next Stop]."
Southeastern: "We have now arrived at [Station]. Welcome aboard this Southeastern service to [Terminus], calling at [Intermediary Stops]."
Departing Station
Southern: Welcome aboard the Southern service to [Terminus] The next station is [Next Stop]."
Southeastern: "This is a Southeastern service to [Terminus]. The next station is [Next Stop]."
I can confirm they make legal threats to the forum and it's members if they are any links to any such content.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Worldline employ people to read this forum (and, I assume, others) and look out for any such links.
If they find any links, they don't just go after the website hosting them, they go after the forum and the individual posting the links.
Don't underestimate how desperate they are to prevent distribution of these announcements and how ruthless they can be.
They will be reading this thread in due course, if they haven't read it already. They will be bookmarking it and monitoring it regularly in case anyone posts a link.
It's ostensibly to protect their "intellectual property rights" and ensure they maximise revenues from customers. They perhaps fear that if enthusiasts have access to the files, then customers may not be prepared to pay the extremely high rates they charge?
But you'd have to ask them; don't expect a coherent and logical answer; some companies are run by megalomaniacs who see people such as enthusiasts, hobbyists and amateurs as people who could be a hindrance to their life aims of accumulation of wealth, and I expect that Worldline is perhaps one such company (along with numerous others I can think of but won't name right now, to avoid going off-topic!)
The people they employ to carry out this task aren't particularly bright. Perhaps they are very junior staff with basic training, for example they said:
By continuing to host these files, you are infringing the intellectual property rights of Worldline IT Services UK Limited, which owns the files, and you are in breach of data protection legislation.
However, we were clearly not hosting the files in question (I know of Year 7 students who would easily have figured that out, so a company employee really should be a bit brighter than that); they don't really understand the words they are using.
Nevertheless, whatever their motives and whatever mistakes they make, the forum doesn't want to get into a legal dispute with such a company. We are absolutely used to receiving legal threats from individuals (and are fortunate to have excellent solicitors and barristers to call upon for pro bono advice), but a company such as Worldline is a whole different matter. The forum has no paid staff and is run on a not-for-profit basis, with relatively little income.
It's not just Worldline who do this; even Network Rail have engaged in legal threats. See: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-clock-unveiled.293446/page-9#post-7661316 however having spoken to other people in Network Rail, I have since discovered the individual who made the threats isn't the brightest spark either, and didn't go through proper NR channels. Nevertheless, it's unwise to take on such large organisations on legal matters, and we have no intention of doing so.
Please can I therefore ask that no-one attempts to even link to Atos/Worldine announcements through this forum (or indeed anything else that may cause legal bother), even if the hosting is by a completely third party, as we don't want a legal battle. I understand it's disappointing for announcement enthusiasts, but we just ask that people respect that request, please.
One of the general principles of intellectual property law is that you can't claim protection against only some groups of people.
To put it another way if you wish to hold a copyright you will need to defend it against everyone else equally.
The principle at its core isn't necessarily unsound. However, some companies take this idea to extremes, sending legal threats to anyone and everyone, including amateurs who are clearly not making commercial use of the material, and others use this as a figleaf to excuse their insidious coercive legalistic behaviour.
It's ostensibly to protect their "intellectual property rights" and ensure they maximise revenues from customers. They perhaps fear that if enthusiasts have access to the files, then customers may not be prepared to pay the extremely high rates they charge?
But you'd have to ask them; don't expect a coherent and logical answer; some companies are run by megalomaniacs who see people such as enthusiasts, hobbyists and amateurs as people who could be a hindrance to their life aims of accumulation of wealth, and I expect that Worldline is perhaps one such company (along with numerous others I can think of but won't name right now, to avoid going off-topic!)
The people they employ to carry out this task aren't particularly bright. Perhaps they are very junior staff with basic training, for example they said:
However, we were clearly not hosting the files in question (I know of Year 7 students who would easily have figured that out, so a company employee really should be a bit brighter than that); they don't really understand the words they are using.
Nevertheless, whatever their motives and whatever mistakes they make, the forum doesn't want to get into a legal dispute with such a company. We are absolutely used to receiving legal threats from individuals (and are fortunate to have excellent solicitors and barristers to call upon for pro bono advice), but a company such as Worldline is a whole different matter. The forum has no paid staff and is run on a not-for-profit basis, with relatively little income.
It's not just Worldline who do this; even Network Rail have engaged in legal threats. See: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-clock-unveiled.293446/page-9#post-7661316 however having spoken to other people in Network Rail, I have since discovered the individual who made the threats isn't the brightest spark either, and didn't go through proper NR channels. Nevertheless, it's unwise to take on such large organisations on legal matters, and we have no intention of doing so.
Please can I therefore ask that no-one attempts to even link to Atos/Worldine announcements through this forum (or indeed anything else that may cause legal bother), even if the hosting is by a completely third party, as we don't want a legal battle. I understand it's disappointing for announcement enthusiasts, but we just ask that people respect that request, please.
One of the general principles of intellectual property law is that you can't claim protection against only some groups of people. To put it another way if you wish to hold a copyright you will need to defend it against everyone else equally. The principle at its core isn't necessarily unsound. However, some companies take this idea to extremes, sending legal threats to anyone and everyone, including amateurs who are clearly not making commercial use of the material, and others use this as a figleaf to excuse their insidious coercive legalistic behaviour.
I can confirm they make legal threats to the forum and it's members if they are any links to any such content.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Worldline employ people to read this forum (and, I assume, others) and look out for any such links.
If they find any links, they don't just go after the website hosting them, they go after the forum and the individual posting the links.
Don't underestimate how desperate they are to prevent distribution of these announcements and how ruthless they can be.
They will be reading this thread in due course, if they haven't read it already. They will be bookmarking it and monitoring it regularly in case anyone posts a link.
This can't be commercial-worthwhile surely. What damage (financially or commercially) would they suffer by having their pre-recorded announcements in the public domain?
This can't be commercial-worthwhile surely. What damage (financially or commercially) would they suffer by having their pre-recorded announcements in the public domain?
This can't be commercial-worthwhile surely. What damage (financially or commercially) would they suffer by having their pre-recorded announcements in the public domain?
Realistically probably nothing or not anything significant. But while there is a possibility of the claimants using expensive lawyers to send threatening letters with lots of legalese in them, even though it's actually often incorrect legalese, unfortunately it usually has the desired effect.
It's ostensibly to protect their "intellectual property rights" and ensure they maximise revenues from customers. They perhaps fear that if enthusiasts have access to the files, then customers may not be prepared to pay the extremely high rates they charge?
But you'd have to ask them; don't expect a coherent and logical answer; some companies are run by megalomaniacs who see people such as enthusiasts, hobbyists and amateurs as people who could be a hindrance to their life aims of accumulation of wealth, and I expect that Worldline is perhaps one such company (along with numerous others I can think of but won't name right now, to avoid going off-topic!)
The people they employ to carry out this task aren't particularly bright. Perhaps they are very junior staff with basic training, for example they said:
However, we were clearly not hosting the files in question (I know of Year 7 students who would easily have figured that out, so a company employee really should be a bit brighter than that); they don't really understand the words they are using.
Nevertheless, whatever their motives and whatever mistakes they make, the forum doesn't want to get into a legal dispute with such a company. We are absolutely used to receiving legal threats from individuals (and are fortunate to have excellent solicitors and barristers to call upon for pro bono advice), but a company such as Worldline is a whole different matter. The forum has no paid staff and is run on a not-for-profit basis, with relatively little income.
It's not just Worldline who do this; even Network Rail have engaged in legal threats. See: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-clock-unveiled.293446/page-9#post-7661316 however having spoken to other people in Network Rail, I have since discovered the individual who made the threats isn't the brightest spark either, and didn't go through proper NR channels. Nevertheless, it's unwise to take on such large organisations on legal matters, and we have no intention of doing so.
Please can I therefore ask that no-one attempts to even link to Atos/Worldine announcements through this forum (or indeed anything else that may cause legal bother), even if the hosting is by a completely third party, as we don't want a legal battle. I understand it's disappointing for announcement enthusiasts, but we just ask that people respect that request, please.
Can’t help but find this rather depressing, especially as it’s not as though the Anne announcements in particular are that great. Compared to Phil Sayer, Celia Drummond and especially (in my opinion) John Elgar, I find them distinctly second-rate. It isn’t even as if Atos / Worldline went to the bother of using a proper voiceover artist, and it shows.
Can’t help but find this rather depressing, especially as it’s not as though the Anne announcements in particular are that great. Compared to Phil Sayer, Celia Drummond and especially (in my opinion) John Elgar, I find them distinctly second-rate. It isn’t even as if Atos / Worldline went to the bother of using a proper voiceover artist, and it shows.
Semi related query in regards to the website (can't find any other open threads on the topic) but is there any plans to add the SE specific announcements for Julie on XStar? At present it only allows for Southern style announcements with the name swapped to Southeastern/Connex, whereas to the extent of my knowledge they are formatted somewhat differently:
Approaching Station
Southern: "We are now approaching [Station]"
Southeastern: "We will shortly be arriving at [Station]"
Stopped At Station
Southern: "This is [Station]. This train is the Southern service to [Terminus] calling at [Intermediary Stops]. The next station is [Next Stop]."
Southeastern: "We have now arrived at [Station]. Welcome aboard this Southeastern service to [Terminus], calling at [Intermediary Stops]."
Departing Station
Southern: Welcome aboard the Southern service to [Terminus] The next station is [Next Stop]."
Southeastern: "This is a Southeastern service to [Terminus]. The next station is [Next Stop]."
Approaching Station: Same across entire fleet: "We will shortly be arriving at: [Next Stop]."
Stopped at Station:
Electrostar/Networker: "Welcome aboard this Southeastern service to: [Terminus], calling at [Intermediary Stops]."
Javelin: "We have now arrived at [This Stop]" (pause between announcements) "This is a Southeastern service to: [Terminus]. We will be calling at [Intermediary Stops]."
City Beam: "This station is: [This Stop]. This train terminates at: [Terminus]. The next station is: [Next Stop]."
Departing Station:
Electrostar/Networker: "The next station is: [Next Stop]."
Javelin: "This is a Southeastern service to: [Terminus]. The next station is: [Next Stop]."
City Beam: N/A
Again, this is to my knowledge so accuracy not guaranteed...
Atos is one of those meaningless names created by a marketing agency. Think of it like Avanti or C2C or Lumo or companies like that. Atos was originally founded as a merger of Axime and Sligos in the late 1990s and then joined by the purchase of Origin a few years later. It is thought that the name may have been partly created by trying to merge the "A" from Axime and "os" from Sligos and then adding a "t" to make it sound better and be an easier name to say. But the official line from Atos seems to be that it does not stand for anything.
Atos no longer have any involvement in the CIS and automated announcements. Atos sold their Worldline division over six years ago. Worldline control the automated announcements and they are a completely separate unrelated company to Atos now.
It is worth pointing out that the automated announcements were not even created by Atos or Worldline and are simply a result of companies purchasing other companies. It was the state owned BRBS (British Rail Business Systems) when these announcement voices first launched. The history is rather complex.
• Some Point In Early 1988 - BRBS launches as the wholly owned IT services division of BR
• Some Point In Early 1996 - BRBS launches its new CIS and Truro station was the first installation
• February 1997 - Sema purchases BRBS (bringing the automated announcements under Sema which is a private company)
• February 2001 - Schlumberger purchases Sema (and as a result Sema becomes a division of Schlumberger known as "SchlumbergerSema")
• February 2004 - Atos (known as "Atos Origin" at the time) purchases the Sema division from Schlumberger (at this point Worldline was simply a division of Atos rather than a separate company and the Sema purchase was put in to the "Atos Worldline" division)
• May 2019 - Atos sells off its Worldline division (and as a result Worldline becomes an independent company with no relation to Atos any more)
Atos/Sema/Schlumberger/Worldline are all French based and French founded companies.
That is not going to work. Worldline could not care less if you tell them that you are using them for personal and non commercial purposes. They do not want anyone having access to their files full stop.
Worldline will not even let anyone have access to old obsolete files. Worldline have prevented TFW from releasing the old Ruth Michell station files despite the fact that they are now old obsolete files that have been withdrawn and will never be used again. Worldline have zero interest in helping anyone preserve a part of railway history.
Worldline are a massive multi billion pound global company. Their revenue last year was almost five billion pounds. A company that big is not going to care about enthusiasts.
KeTech (who own the Celia and Phil files) are a far more decent company. They allowed the Celia and Phil files (along with the Scotrail and Irish Rail files) to be released (meaning we thankfully have those now) and have clearly realised that there is no harm in enthusiasts having copies. It is a shame that larger companies can not have the same common sense.
I personally always find that Anne has a very average voice. It is not the worst (i can think of far worse announcers on our network) but not the best either. She just has a very ordinary voice. Ruth Michell is my favourite of the Worldline voices.
It is also worth pointing out that even the SE 375s and SE 377s have differences to each other especially with the short platform scripts. The SE 375s only tell you what carriages will not open. The SE 377s only tell you what carriages will open.
For a random example lets take Hollingbourne where only the front six coaches of an eight coach train fit and this is what the announcements say:
SE 375:
"The next station is Hollingbourne. Would customers please note that you can not alight from the rear two coaches as this station has a short platform. Please ensure you are travelling in the correct part of the train."
SE 377:
"The next station is Hollingbourne. Would customers please note that you can only alight from the front six coaches as this station has a short platform. Please ensure you are travelling in the correct part of the train."
It is odd how such similar trains with the same PIS system and at the same TOC even have differences to each other.
I remember you saying that Ruth was originally a BRBS voice, first used in 1996. I wonder if anyone has any recordings at all (they can be background video sound, just anything) of Ruth in action at Truro in 1996!
Was Anne originally a Sema voice? The name Sema rings a bell - I seem to recall that the Anne voice may have even been named Sema at one point, before it was known as Anne?
I remember you saying that Ruth was originally a BRBS voice, first used in 1996. I wonder if anyone has any recordings at all (they can be background video sound, just anything) of Ruth in action at Truro in 1996!
Was Anne originally a Sema voice? The name Sema rings a bell - I seem to recall that the Anne voice may have even been named Sema at one point, before it was known as Anne?
Anne was an employee of BRBS (British Rail Business Systems) but she was not rolled out on the announcements until late 1999 with Luton Airport Parkway being the first station to get her. So yes it was during Sema ownership that her voice was first rolled out and you could say that she was originally a Sema voice. But she was employed by BRBS / Sema / Schlumberger / Atos / Worldline and had some involvement in the CIS even before her voice was used.
Ruth was first Worldline voice from 1996. Eryl was second Worldline voice from 1998. Anne was the third Worldline voice from 1999. Rob was fouth Worldline voice from 2001.
Anne was given the name "Sarah" by some enthusiasts in the early 2000s before it became known that Anne Jermy was her real name. That is probably what you are thinking of. I had never heard of anyone calling her "Sema" before. It was quite common for enthusiasts to make up different names for announcers before we knew who they were.
Find it interesting that there are hundreds or even thousands of videos of Anne on YouTube, some over 10 minutes worth of recording of just her which have been up for years so clearly they are fine with that
Find it interesting that there are hundreds or even thousands of videos of Anne on YouTube, some over 10 minutes worth of recording of just her which have been up for years so clearly they are fine with that
I know they will be reading this thread, but I don't know if they are aware of what's on YouTube.
Now you've mentioned it here, maybe they will look into it, and start to go after them?
Or maybe they are already aware and Google/YouTube said no, and they don't want to fight such a big company.
A big company is more likely to issue legal threats to individuals or a small organisations, than they are to threaten a huge company that is much bigger than they are.
I know they will be reading this thread, but I don't know if they are aware of what's on YouTube.
Now you've mentioned it here, maybe they will look into it, and start to go after them?
Or maybe they are already aware and Google/YouTube said no, and they don't want to fight such a big company.
A big company is more likely to issue legal threats to individuals or a small organisations, than they are to threaten a huge company that is much bigger than they are.
There's probably a few reasons why they don't go after YouTube.
Firstly they're not the "pure" original sound files, secondly they're recorded from a public area and while I'm not a legal expert I'm pretty sure any kind of argument against recording sounds in a public area would get thrown out of court instantly, also they'll have whatever background noise in them which the original "pure" files won't have.
Also in order to make your own announcements out of them would probably require a fair bit of work, none of this is to say that Worldline are being sensible of course.
Anne was an employee of BRBS (British Rail Business Systems) but she was not rolled out on the announcements until late 1999 with Luton Airport Parkway being the first station to get her. So yes it was during Sema ownership that her voice was first rolled out and you could say that she was originally a Sema voice. But she was employed by BRBS / Sema / Schlumberger / Atos / Worldline and had some involvement in the CIS even before her voice was used.
Ruth was first Worldline voice from 1996. Eryl was second Worldline voice from 1998. Anne was the third Worldline voice from 1999. Rob was fouth Worldline voice from 2001.
Anne was given the name "Sarah" by some enthusiasts in the early 2000s before it became known that Anne Jermy was her real name. That is probably what you are thinking of. I had never heard of anyone calling her "Sema" before. It was quite common for enthusiasts to make up different names for announcers before we knew who they were.
You might be thinking of Leeds and Manchester Piccadilly which were both 2002 installations. Anne was definitely already used prior to 2002 at three other stations.
The years i have identified are from a mixture of my memory from hearing Anne back then and from speaking to railway staff who were involved and from making FOI requests.
I had made an FOI request to Network Rail a few years back and they confirmed exactly what i had remembered that these announcements were installed at Luton Airport Parkway in 1999 upon opening and installed in 2001 at both Gatwick Airport and London Bridge stations.
I am certain that Anne was installed the following years at these stations:
1999 - Luton Airport Parkway
2001 - Gatwick Airport
2001 - London Bridge
2002 - Leeds
2002 - Manchester Piccadilly
2003 - London Euston
2003 - London Kings Cross
There was also another very early and very short lived Anne installation at many Southeastern stations within the London suburban area (eg, Bromley South, Herne Hill, Orpington, etc) from 2002 to 2004 before their Thales system was installed. Of course she has now returned to these stations since 2012 when Southeastern scrapped their Thales system.
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
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