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Assessments & Medicals discussion
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The job was offered on 13th June and my medical was July 15th
Thank You
Unfortunately I've had my offer withdrawn from me due to failing a safety critical medical and have been classed as permanently unfit. I have a mild slipped disc in the lower back, a personality disorder and fibromyalgia. I've never needed any adjustments at work and hardly taken any sick days. I mentioned all this in the pre employment medical questionnaire 
and was still invited to the medical.
I take amitriptyline of which I've been on for 4 years, so no side effects experienced now. Also take duloxetine and omeprazole.
So disheartening, my alertness is not affected, I've done 12hr + shifts in the past no issue, including nights.
and was still invited to the medical.I take amitriptyline of which I've been on for 4 years, so no side effects experienced now. Also take duloxetine and omeprazole.
So disheartening, my alertness is not affected, I've done 12hr + shifts in the past no issue, including nights.
Sorry to hear about this. It can be incredibly difficult and upsetting to be told that your offer is withdrawn.
Without being too familiar with these medications, it does appear that amitriptyline and duloxetine cause side effects. According to the NHS website, both cause tiredness, with duloxetine causing blurred vision and dizziness for 1 in 10 people. For a safety critical role, as you can imagine, this is quite a high risk for a TOC/FOC to take.
Without being too familiar with these medications, it does appear that amitriptyline and duloxetine cause side effects. According to the NHS website, both cause tiredness, with duloxetine causing blurred vision and dizziness for 1 in 10 people. For a safety critical role, as you can imagine, this is quite a high risk for a TOC/FOC to take.
12LDA28C
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Oct 2022
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- 5,058
Unfortunately I've had my offer withdrawn from me due to failing a safety critical medical and have been classed as permanently unfit. I have a mild slipped disc in the lower back, a personality disorder and fibromyalgia. I've never needed any adjustments at work and hardly taken any sick days. I mentioned all this in the pre employment medical questionnaire
I take amitriptyline of which I've been on for 4 years, so no side effects experienced now. Also take duloxetine and omeprazole.
So disheartening, my alertness is not affected, I've done 12hr + shifts in the past no issue, including nights.
The medical fitness requirements on the railway are quite rigorous and you don't state what job you have applied for, nor what role you have currently. You may have some recourse if you can source a statement from your GP to the effect that you have been taking this medication for years with no adverse effects and any health conditions you currently suffer are managed effectively with no negative impact on your performance at work.
That said, it's a long shot but maybe worth a try.
AverageJoe
On Moderation
I have a friend with fibromyalgia and he does manage it each day.
However if he was exposed to my shift pattern it would fairly quickly wipe him out.
Sorry to hear that you have lost the job opportunity but it might be for the best if it means you can work and have some good quality of life along side it.
However if he was exposed to my shift pattern it would fairly quickly wipe him out.
Sorry to hear that you have lost the job opportunity but it might be for the best if it means you can work and have some good quality of life along side it.
coffeetable
Member
I have hearing problem in one ear and was told to bring a letter from my audiologist to prove that my affected hearing doesn't exceed 30 decibels.
Luckyflames
Member
Get down to line 7 on each sheet with no mistakes. And you will passHi team,
What advice do members have about how to know whether you're ready to sit the assessments - given the 'two attempts per lifetime' rule?. It is easy to postpone but I have not persuaded myself to, plus there is the administration of waiting for further dates and reorganising life.
I do not fully agree with the idea that the aptitudes are innate, particularly given my experience in other tests and the past.
Also, with the Bourdon dot test, I am finding it hard to know how to balance speed and accuracy. My best thought is that Metodorf.com states the average processing speed for the dot test as 100-140 characters per minute. Per 2 minutes, that's 200-280 characters, which is 8-11 lines, so I would aim to do this much per page.
What do you think about that?
Kind regards
Laurence
yetanotheralph
New Member
Hey all,
Was wondering if anyone could alay or confirm my fears. Recently had a medical which flagged up hypertension and got me restricted.
I've since been to the Dr got my treatment which he assured me was allowed for safety critical work and the Blood Pressure is all under control.
I'm due a medical review in the next couple of weeks and im hoping to get back to normal but also terrified that it's curtains for my conductor career.
Since everything is back under control will I be ok? or is the fact Im now on medically controlled hypertension considered a risk?
Was wondering if anyone could alay or confirm my fears. Recently had a medical which flagged up hypertension and got me restricted.
I've since been to the Dr got my treatment which he assured me was allowed for safety critical work and the Blood Pressure is all under control.
I'm due a medical review in the next couple of weeks and im hoping to get back to normal but also terrified that it's curtains for my conductor career.
Since everything is back under control will I be ok? or is the fact Im now on medically controlled hypertension considered a risk?
Have you got a letter from your GP to confirm that the medication is good for safety-critical work and it is under control?
Normally such things are "temporarily unfit for work" so unless there's no sign of progress - which is not the case - you'll hopefully be back to your normal duties within a few weeks. The company would much rather you fit, healthy and back at work as opposed to having to go through the lengthy process of redeployment and removal from role so you should be fine. If you're really worried about it, reach out to your union rep too.
yetanotheralph
New Member
Ohh no letter but I will get onto my GP first thing in the morning.
Thanks for putting my mind at ease XD
Group Bourdon Tool
The Group Bourdon Tool link is not working at all, here is the file all scanned as at 31/10/2017 via online virus scanners ..all clear! Credits Chris Gresham Enjoy
www.railforums.co.uk
Hello all,
Was fortunately successful in my train drivers job application, can anyone tell me about the medical, and more importantly the hearing test, my hearing isn’t what it was when I started at a train manager. Just done a YouTube hearing test and can hear up to 16000HZ. Would this be a sufficient pass?
Was fortunately successful in my train drivers job application, can anyone tell me about the medical, and more importantly the hearing test, my hearing isn’t what it was when I started at a train manager. Just done a YouTube hearing test and can hear up to 16000HZ. Would this be a sufficient pass?
Amazing. Are these still relevant today 2024. Thank you.Group Bourdon Tool
The Group Bourdon Tool link is not working at all, here is the file all scanned as at 31/10/2017 via online virus scanners ..all clear! Credits Chris Gresham Enjoy
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
A YouTube test is no way scientifically accurate; especially at lower and higher frequencies. How loud was the tone at 16kHz before you could just hear it?
At lower and higher frequencies, sounds have to be made louder before we can just hear them. If you are interested, look up Minimum Audible Field (MAF) and Minimum Audible Pressure (MAP)
I would expect hearing levels down to 20dB HL between 250-8kHz to be the accepted standard.
Stickmangn
New Member
Regarding the WAFV assessment , I understand you press the green button when the square turns black. But if after the square flashes black but continues to flash black say 2 - 3 more times continuously, would I still press the button for every time the square has flashes black?Brief overview of Assessment Center Stage 2 now that I've completed it twice both times passing.
If stage one is what you're looking for then an overview is here: Stage One Assessment Day Overview
The Day starts off with the WAFV, followed by ATAVT and then 2 hand coordination test. In both my experiences the results are shortly given to you on a one to one meeting after the tests. It lasts about 52 Mins to 1Hr for the assessment part of the day, if your TOC does the MMI on the same day then that will happen after X amount of time on that day and only after the SJE and Pre Questionnaire sheet is filled.
WAFV
Known as a Vigilance test, it lasts about 30mins and you're expected to react only when the flashing grey square turns Black. As others have said on this forum, you will be given a practice set before starting the real test and it shows you clearly the difference between the Grey square and Black Square. An example shown below:
View attachment 151541
The Normal Shade, you do not react to this at all.
View attachment 151539
The Black square, you're expected to react to it by pressing a Green Button.
View attachment 151542
I completed the examples and started the test. It felt faster for me, time duration-wise, than the times I practiced it. I practiced for 1 week every day before the assessment using a tool called Rail Test Preparation, which has a few other tests on it and, in my opinion, replicated the WAFV very well. But then again, it's really only a flashing grey square that turns dark black.
The frequency of the black square was very manageable. I found ways to keep up my attention by adding in a tiny bit of distraction. For example, I ended up learning exactly how far away, test-wise, those sitting the test with me were. As I started first, I knew the person next to me was about 10 seconds behind, and the one after them, 25 behind, and the other 10 seconds behind that individual. Moving my focus to different corners of the squares rather than a whole head adjustment also corrected any loss of focus or blurriness, which will start to happen if you focus too long.
I personally didn't experience it, but some experienced a color disorientation in which the square appears to be getting darker and darker than it truly is. This led to misclicks, and in some cases, I heard several presses of the green button by a lass in the corner, of which I knew I hadn't encountered any part of the test that required that amount of button pressing. Thus, as we later discovered, they were false clicks as the disorientation had happened. Sadly, went down by 3 after that test, out of 5 down to mainly that.
I often like to understand why I do a test, and from the experience, I could tell that this test, as the name suggests, will test your ability to concentrate for an extended period of time and your reaction over that said time. As something gets monotonous, your mind can tend to lag, and the test wants to see if what starts off as a simple task can then become a difficult task for an individual, which could highlight an area of risk in train operation.
Tips for the test from my experience:
- Get yourself comfortable and in position, this matters a lot as you don't want to make any adjustments as much later, Your hand that will be used to press the button should be relaxed and of free movement to do so.
- Make sure you've used the toilet, kept a bottle of water near you but not distractingly close and any distractions on yourself like a Phone etc has been removed. You'll need to be of full attention.
- Don't overthink the test, there is only ever two shades and the two shades are exactly the same two you will see in the practice examples. They do not change mid test.
- Use the headphones for some noise dampening
- Relax once again, wait only for the square to go black before you react, It also gives you a bit of a hint that you've reacted to the Black square by the screen staying white for about 1 second more than usual before flashing to whatever the next shade of square is.
ATAVT
The test I worried about on both occasions but ended up passing it to very high standard. Its a test of visual perception. You are shown an image for about 1 second of a street or traffic and asked to later state what you see. The options were similar to:
View attachment 151544
ATAVT Similar Video
You're given practice examples, as with the WAFV. It's important to note that the practice run will tell you that you've got the question wrong if you do not get all the items correct and will reshare the photo for you to select the correct ones. However, this does not mean that in the real test you need every item!!! Just select honestly what you saw and do not try to guess. You're negatively marked down on wrong answers, not missed answers. Just because you may have seen a pedestrian crossing a road doesn't mean they did so at a traffic light; it could have been a zebra crossing. Unless you remember exactly what it was, then don't assume.
On the device its these buttons for the test:
View attachment 151545
The green button is only used to move to the next image; you're allowed to control when you move to the next set of images. I think there were 17-20 images in all, with about 12 minutes total time estimated. I just focused on the center of the images. My eyes were able to make out the big objects like cars and glowing objects like traffic lights, while I could check for people, cyclists, and road signs. It went quite well in my opinion, much better than what I expected. Once again, a test that you really shouldn't overthink.
I think it's self-explanatory with why you're tested on this, but briefly, as a driver, you'd be expected to have a decent level of visual recall, especially at some operational speeds of over 100mph. You'll need to be able to pick out details that often will be oblivious to others, and all that in a restricted amount of time while staying calm.
Tips for the test from my experience:
- Get yourself comfortable and in position, if you're using glasses then wipe those as you don't want fog to cause you issues.
- Don't overthink the test, only click the number relevant to the answer that you've seen(this becomes clear on the day but on the test device the numbers correspond to the answer you want to select).
- Take as much time as you realistically need before moving onto the next but not too long as you'll find yourself pandering over what you've seen and in some cases you might recreate the actual image you last remember seeing in your head.
- Make sure if you haven't already to have adjusted the sound in your headset. The audio beep that plays before the image is shown is important and you don't want it too quiet yet too loud.
- Relax, ideally you should have found a focus point on the test practice examples in which you will be aiming to focus on for all the images. Use the practice examples to the max before starting the real test on the day!
2 Hand Coordination
Like the ATAVT there isn't much that can prepare you for this test, you either have the ability or don't but your day to day life may have used the certain fine motor skills and hand eye coordination required for the test itself. The main area that makes it hard to practice the test is that the Joysticks:
View attachment 151546
Do not feel like most conventional joysticks and are thus harder to replicate with dual-shock joysticks like those on the Playstation, etc. However, they do flick back slowly to the neutral position, so bear in mind this if you let go during the test. The left joystick controls only the right and left movement of the ball and is restricted to this axis, while the right controls the up and down movement of the ball and is also restricted to this axis.
The real test will look somewhat similar to below:
You are given a practice round first, which involves simply moving the ball to a Point marked B. There's no track in this example. Use the examples to get a feel for positioning; I found that holding the joysticks halfway worked best for me, so you'll need to experiment for yourself. These examples are not timed, and it's up to you to move on by moving the ball to the destination marked B.
Another example after the first practice stage is the circuit itself, and this is your last chance to adjust your audio, find a feel for placement on the joystick, and get to grips with the test. Once you complete the circuit, the test is next. It should take about 10 minutes, estimated, and there are a few tracks. You'll go out for sure in this test; I went out on the first 4 about 3 times each, and there is a clear audio beep telling you this. Try not to panic and just get back on track. I'm very sure they can see how you react to the audio beep, especially if the ball right after increases the distance it's already fallen off the track by.
Going off track isn't too much of a problem; just try not to be too frequent with it. How quickly you get back on track is very important. You'll feel yourself getting better. All 10 track test attempts are the same, The circuit doesn't change at all, its the same Circuit/ Track as the first attempt and which at the time of writing is again similar to the picture above. By test attempt 7, I was going off the track only once on each, with the 10th not coming off at all. You'll improve as you go along.
I don't really have any tips for this one as it's basically a game of ability here.
Hopefully, you're called in after the suite of tests is done and are told you've passed. In which case, you may do the MMI on the day and be told how the final part of that day will proceed. The MMI is so well covered in this forum that I'd be repeating lots of already valuable information on here. Best of luck!
NSEWonderer
Established Member
If the square yes is still flashing black and I mean clearly black then you press the green button. The difference between. Grey and black is quite clear on the day but if you focus too hard I've seen people end up getting disorientated.
Excellent thank you for your reply!
kisyrpk
Member
Hi all.
Is anyone here who has some practice materials for VSE?
Is anyone here who has some practice materials for VSE?
Stickmangn
New Member
Thank you
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I’ve recently passed my assessments and have been invited for a medical. I don’t suppose anyone would know if taking hair loss tablets (Minoxidil and Finasteride) would be a problem?
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You could try "brain game" applications like Peak or Luminosity which you can do on your phone. As with anything, practice makes perfect.
Setting up patterns & systems for yourself are normally the best techniques for short-term memory recall.
zero1990
Member
Hello everyone. Ive been practicing the gbt for the last few days. At the start i was horrendous. But now im managing to get 8/9 rows but i keep making 3 mistakes(omissions) everytime. Any advice? Thanks 
You won’t only have one chance at MMI. You haven’t done it once yet.
NSEWonderer
Established Member
Will only have one chance as they failed a core assessment in 2 hand coordination already rather than an additional test like the VSE or DFFT which is TOC dependent.
Good Afternoon,
I sat a train driver psychometric assessment recently but sadly failed on the group bourden test.
I was informed that I had a national pass but not an enhanced pass that LNER are looking for.
My question is, do I now only have 1 further attempt at the psychometric assessment, should I wish to apply for LNER, or another TOC in the future
Many thanks
I sat a train driver psychometric assessment recently but sadly failed on the group bourden test.
I was informed that I had a national pass but not an enhanced pass that LNER are looking for.
My question is, do I now only have 1 further attempt at the psychometric assessment, should I wish to apply for LNER, or another TOC in the future
Many thanks
Juliet Barvo
Member
- Joined
- 24 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 252
You have one further attempt for an Enhanced Pass of the Group Bourden.
If you take the Group Bourden and fail at the National Standard then you lose your current National Standard pass.
You can only fail the test twice under current rules.