Aslef strikes and OT ban called…

[class 9]

Oh my days that sounds horrendous. I know you have a much higher salary but still.

Most times the movement isn't too far, but there's the potential, very occasionally particularly on a Monday you end up on a 4am job off early pm spare

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2023 ==

Of course XC (as well as VWC) agreed significant rises in exchange for these conditions. The government expects everyone to take on the same conditions, but won't do anything to harmonise pay between the lower-paying TOCs and the higher-paying ones. In fact as it's the same percentage on offer the gap in pay is widening further.

Indeed, that in a nutshell is the crux of impasse

 

[Facing Back]

Oh look! The Government wants to implement Minimum Sevice Levels as soon as possible because there's an ASLEF dispute (that could be solved very easily):

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/153/transport-committee/news/198784/transport-committee-warns-government-not-to-overlook-risks-as-it-presses-ahead-with-plans-for-rail-strikes-regulations/

That was interesting thank you

 

[Bantamzen]

Are the usual rules not applicable in such circumstances then? Different TOCs?

Edit: Have cancelled Travelodge booking and emailed Trainsplit regarding a refund. No big deal, it was just an impulsively booked short break.

I don't blame you for cancelling. I've got a colleague travelling from Hull to Leeds today, and there are no TPs between 06:53 & 10:03 headed between the two. I would not be wanting to travel over the Pennines today if this is anything to go by.

 

[chuff chuff]

Most times the movement isn't too far, but there's the potential, very occasionally particularly on a Monday you end up on a 4am job off early pm spare

What is the movement on a week's spare?

 

[trainophile]

I don't blame you for cancelling. I've got a colleague travelling from Hull to Leeds today, and there are no TPs between 06:53 & 10:03 headed between the two. I would not be wanting to travel over the Pennines today if this is anything to go by.

Hopefully some of the effect on hotels etc. will be offset by people who get stranded having to stay in them!

 

[dctraindriver]

If Dft ever got through any of these crazy proposed changes, you would see an almost immediate massive uptick in drivers getting "accomodated", for a whole variety of reasons. I'd actually argue, ultimately it would lead to less flexibility, and a requirement for a much larger number of employed drivers.

I don’t think that will be the case, think they’ve been briefed to cut back on accommodated staff….

 

[Ridercross]

Absolute carnage on the Snow Hill lines today. Have just walked into the station to find a massive queue and word that there are hardly any trains after 19:00 tonight. It's inpy action short of strike too. looked on national rail and nearly everything is cancelled. It's only Monday.

According to the Tweets sent out by WMR last night, things got so bad at Snow Hill that they had to stop entry to the station last night. In my 29 years of travelling on the Snow Hill lines for work and leisure I can't ever recall this happening before:

https://twitter.com/WestMidRailway/status/1731727818550018429

Luckily I got on at Moor Street last night so managed to actually get on a train.

 

[12LDA28C]

What is the movement on a week's spare?

The proposed change to Ts & Cs is to introduce unlimited movement on a week of Spare so a driver can pick up any vacant line of work with Rest Day(s) moved accordingly.

 

[dk1]

The proposed change to Ts & Cs is to introduce unlimited movement on a week of Spare so a driver can pick up any vacant line of work with Rest Day(s) moved accordingly.

Back to the dark ages in other words. No chance.

 

[Teddyward]

Back to the dark ages in other words. No chance.

We already have this on great eastern. 1 week out of the cycle of 8 is variable spare week.

 

[dk1]

We already have this on great eastern. 1 week out of the cycle of 8 is variable spare week.

We are 4hrs for a weeks work, 3hrs on the day, and 1hr if moved from cancelled turn.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Only two hours movement here. Wouldn’t want a third, let alone the rest.

 

[class 9]

What is the movement on a week's spare?

We don't have weeks of spares, they are all allocated on a daily basis.

 

[CastlebarKeith]

The quickest way to get the TOCs to back down would be to run a full service, BUT, first,
Come to an arrangement with Revenue Collection that NO barriers are closed and there will be no ticket inspection anywhere.
The cessation of all their income whilst running a full service will do the job quite quickly.

Having 24 hour strikes from mid-day to mid-day the next day will have exactly the opposite effect. You'll lose customers, lose their support, and lose the battle.

 

[LowLevel]

The quickest way to get the TOCs to back down would be to run a full service, BUT, first,
Come to an arrangement with Revenue Collection that NO barriers are closed and there will be no ticket inspection anywhere.
The cessation of all their income whilst running a full service will do the job quite quickly.

Having 24 hour strikes from mid-day to mid-day the next day will have exactly the opposite effect. You'll lose customers, lose their support, and lose the battle.

That's been said so many times like it's the Holy Grail it isn't even funny. If it was that simple do you not think it would have been done?

It's been mooted before, the RMT suggested they were going to do it with Central Trains 20 years ago, it quickly got binned because in the UK there are legal connotations as you can't choose to perform some of your duties, it's all or nothing as you're breaching your contract regardless.

 

[vikingdriver]

The quickest way to get the TOCs to back down would be to run a full service, BUT, first,
Come to an arrangement with Revenue Collection that NO barriers are closed and there will be no ticket inspection anywhere.
The cessation of all their income whilst running a full service will do the job quite quickly.

Having 24 hour strikes from mid-day to mid-day the next day will have exactly the opposite effect. You'll lose customers, lose their support, and lose the battle.

I believe that doing that has been made illegal at some point!

 

[ValentaFan1974]

Indeed it has unfortunately.

 

[CastlebarKeith]

That's been said so many times like it's the Holy Grail it isn't even funny. If it was that simple do you not think it would have been done?

It's been mooted before, the RMT suggested they were going to do it with Central Trains 20 years ago, it quickly got binned because in the UK there are legal connotations as you can't choose to perform some of your duties, it's all or nothing as you're breaching your contract regardless.

lt was never meant to be funny
lt was meant to be practical. IT IS as simple as that.
But because it is practical, it has been made illegal.

 

[43096]

lt was never meant to be funny
lt was meant to be practical. IT IS as simple as that.
But because it is practical, it has been made illegal.

I’d like to know the logic of suggesting it in a thread about the drivers’ union. How do they stop collecting revenue?!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The travelling public absolutely have a right to be of the opinion that the situation needs sorting ASAP so that a reliable train service can run, yes. They don't have the right to demand that drivers or anyone else in the rail industry accept changes to Ts & Cs that would adversely affect their work/life balance and levels of fatigue in a safety-critical role, no.

Yes, I am well aware of that and wouldn't dream of it. Personally, I think the DfT should hand back control to the relevant TOC's but that's a subject for another thread

 

[12LDA28C]

Personally, I think the DfT should hand back control to the relevant TOC's but that's a subject for another thread

I quite agree.

 

[Ashfordian6]

For Christmas Eve they'd have to announce it by the 10th December, or more realistically the last working day 2 weeks prior which is Friday 8th.

I very much doubt a strike will be called for Sunday 24th. The rail network already shuts down early.

Much more likely to be Saturday 23rd as that would give most drivers a 4 day break Christmas but also have a knock-on affect to the 22nd and 24th.

 

[Silverlinky]

I quite agree.

But isn't this what was proposed in the RDG document, specifically the line "Each of these elements will be brought forward for discussion in accordance with the respective recognised TOC collective bargaining procedures."

With so many differing T's and C's across the different companies it is one hell of a task, and I don't think "harmonisation of t's and c's" is on the agenda, however there is a framework of areas to be looked at across all companies.

Each company was tasked with carrying out a scoping exercise, and some companies have done this leading to the rumours of movement from spare, movements of rest days etc, but these are on a company by company basis as, from what can be seen from some of the posts above, some companies already do aspects of what is being proposed.

 

[Train_manager]

I very much doubt a strike will be called for Sunday 24th. The rail network already shuts down early.

Much more likely to be Saturday 23rd as that would give most drivers a 4 day break Christmas but also have a knock-on affect to the 22nd and 24th.

Freight doesn't shut down thank you very much!

 

[ChrisC]

Hopefully some of the effect on hotels etc. will be offset by people who get stranded having to stay in them!

I don’t really know how much it is effecting hotels. I know it’s costing me considerably more to stay in them. For the last 18 months most of my bookings have either been last minute when I know there’s no strikes, when there have been few good deals left. Otherwise I’ve been paying much higher prices by having to book more expensive fully flexible rates which can be cancelled. It‘s hospitality venues in the run up to Christmas that will suffer if people have to cancel group bookings.

 

[Ashfordian6]

Freight doesn't shut down thank you very much!

Your pedantry makes you look foolish on this thread when we are talking about Train Drivers that are on strike and currently in dispute, thank you very much!

 

[Travelmonkey]

I know the weekend just gone I had a non refundable hotel for an event in East London both ways I had to take a longer alternative route (Friday Via Birmingham & Sunday Via Derby) due to the cancellations the staff on trains and gatelines are sick of it (this action) but understood my unorthodox routing although I was worried I'd be penalty fared but thankfully wasn't,

I am glad to have been able to travel even if with 3 TOCs that were not in the original plan,

 

[Jamesrob637]

I know the weekend just gone I had a non refundable hotel for an event in East London both ways I had to take a longer alternative route (Friday Via Birmingham & Sunday Via Derby) due to the cancellations the staff on trains and gatelines are sick of it (this action) but understood my unorthodox routing although I was worried I'd be penalty fared but thankfully wasn't,

I am glad to have been able to travel even if with 3 TOCs that were not in the original plan,

And so it should be/should have been under such circumstances.

 

[Travelmonkey]

And so it should be/should have been under such circumstances.

I mean I was finally able to take the pride pendalino it almost makes up for standing freezing on Litchfied for 2 & a half hours the avanti guard was a little bit taken aback when I quoted 28.2 to him for me and the other traveler who decided to stick by me,

*photos of the white PRIDE with a rainbow background, the progress name plate & a pink monkey with a orange carriage with Avanti Pride in the background*

 

[chuff chuff]

We don't have weeks of spares, they are all allocated on a daily basis.

Ah okay thanks.