ASLEF strike 1st Sept and alternative transport

[MrJeeves]

I'm due to get to Gatwick for an early morning flight on the 2nd Sept. For this, I booked a rail ticket for the last train of the day from my local station to Gatwick.

An ASLEF strike has just been announced for the 1st Sept, meaning GTR won't run any services on that day.

As I understand it, since I already have an itinerary and valid ticket, I should be entitled to replacement transport of some kind under the PRO.

What's the likelihood of actually getting compensated for a taxi if I need one in this situation? I understand I'd need to request compensation after the fact, since GTR would never actually book the taxi on my behalf beforehand because that would be too logical.

 

[northwichcat]

I believe industrial action is one of the instances where operators have an exemption from the usual rules.

You are definitely entitled to a refund on a ticket you're unable to use.

 

[MrJeeves]

I believe industrial action is one of the instances where operators have an exemption from the usual rules.

You are definitely entitled to a refund on a ticket you're unable to use.

They are not exempt from their responsibilities under PRO whether there is a strike or not.

If you have a confirmed itinerary, and there is an expected delay of 60 minutes or more late (or 61+, but I'll go with the UK Gov guidance), then:

passengers may either choose to have a:

• refund of the fare when the journey will no longer serve the passenger’s originally planned purpose. The refund will include the return journey where appropriate

or

• continuation or re-routeing under comparable transport conditions to the final destination at the earliest opportunity

or

• continuation or re-routeing under comparable transport conditions to the final destination at a later date at the passenger’s convenience

In addition, under Article 18:

Where the railway service cannot be provided, the railway undertakings shall provide alternative transport as soon as possible.

Guidance on regulation No 1371/2007 on rail passengers' rights and obligations

www.gov.uk

My main point is, we've mentioned this on the forums a few times, but I don't remembering seeing anyone who has actually tried to get compensated for alternative transport on a strike day yet.

 

[Adam Williams]

To be clear, the pertinent bit of the guidance here is:

there are no limitations on railway undertakings obligations to their passengers in respect of compensation of the ticket price and assistance requirements set out in articles 16 to 18 [summary quoted above by @MrJeeves]. This means that railway undertakings are obliged to give passengers compensation or assistance even in situations which they consider are outside of their, or the rail industry’s control.

How I suspect this will go:

1. You ask GTR to pre-book the taxi to try and limit the extent of your losses. GTR refuse.
2. You pay for the taxi yourself
3. Front-line customer services fob you off when you claim compensation for it
4. You write a clear letter before action and request, in straightforward terms, a substantive response in the next 14 days
5. At this point you may be paid the compensation you requested to make the problem go away
6. If you receive an unsatisfactory response, or no response at all, you may have to consider going down the small claims track

I personally would be very interested to see how such a case would play out, particularly if it does reach point 6.

 

[MrJeeves]

I personally would be very interested to see how such a case would play out, particularly if it does reach point 6.

And trust me... I definitely would.

 

[N1]

Taking a look at the Rail Ombudsman Case Studies might help you gather the evidence you need to try and get the costs of a taxi covered.

 

[MrJeeves]

Unfortunate that they only disclosed the outcome to two of the consumers on the Industrial Action case study.

Consumer A's case is most similar to mine.

Travel During Industrial Action - Rail Ombudsman

rail ombudsman customer complaints

www.railombudsman.org

• Consumer A had pre-purchased a train ticket for travel to an airport station. A then arrived at the station to find no services running due to strikes. A advised that they were travelling to catch a pre-booked flight from the airport and therefore took a taxi for which they were claiming compensation.

 

[Adam Williams]

No mention of the PRO in any of the Rail Ombudsman's case studies.

 

[MrJeeves]

Either way, I have sent a long, detailed email to GTR Customer Relations setting out their legal responsibilities and requesting a pre-booked taxi from either one of the two closest stations to myself, or my home.

They aren't required to provide me transport from my home, but I left that option there if they happened to say yes. :P

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Aug 2023 ==

No mention of the PRO in any of the Rail Ombudsman's case studies.

Almost as if they haven't heard of it (or don't want people to know about it!)

 

[N1]

Unfortunate that they only disclosed the outcome to two of the consumers on the Industrial Action case study.

There are similar ones for the same kind of situation in the Amended Timetable section that go into a little more detail

 

[MrJeeves]

There are similar ones for the same kind of situation in the Amended Timetable section that go into a little more detail

Which all, as far as I can tell, find in favour of the TOC because the customer should have been aware prior to starting their travel.

Still no mention of PRO legislation though.

Wouldn't really expect much difference from the ombudsman, considering other reports on how useless they are.

 

[island]

What should happen and what will happen are quite divergent; Adam Williams has already set out the likely course of events.

 

[SuspectUsual]

How I suspect this will go:

1. You ask GTR to pre-book the taxi to try and limit the extent of your losses. GTR refuse.
2. You pay for the taxi yourself
3. Front-line customer services fob you off when you claim compensation for it
4. You write a clear letter before action and request, in straightforward terms, a substantive response in the next 14 days
5. At this point you may be paid the compensation you requested to make the problem go away
6. If you receive an unsatisfactory response, or no response at all, you may have to consider going down the small claims track

I personally would be very interested to see how such a case would play out, particularly if it does reach point 6

My money is on GTR only reply in the first instance after 2 September

 

[Sonic1234]

I personally would be very interested to see how such a case would play out, particularly if it does reach point 6.

Me too. Likely, they'd pay out once they knew it wasn't a bluff and put it down to an awkward customer.

 

[MrJeeves]

My money is on GTR only reply in the first instance after 2 September

If I don't have a response before I'm due to travel, I'd be phoning GTR and recording the call from my side.

 

[ficedula]

Certainly interested to hear how you get on - my mother is in a similar situation, of having an advance ticket (booked before the strikes were announced) for the 1st. Certainly sounds like the PRO requires the TOC to get her a taxi, but I imagine customer services aren't going to be keen to admit that given it's nearly 100 miles of travel in her case...

 

[_toommm_]

I managed to claim back the alternate travel costs from Christmas Eve, where the services finished much earlier. I’d booked a ticket for Leeds to Flowery Field before the strikes were announced for 18:45, onto the last train towards Glossop. I had to book a coach to Manchester, get a tram to Ashton, then an Uber home, getting home about two hours later than planned. After much to-ing and fro-ing, Transpennine eventually refunded me the £30 additional travel costs I incurred.

I could have gone even further and refunded my train ticket as I couldn’t use it, but by the time TPE responded I was well out of the 30 days and didn’t have the effort to argue another case.

The travel was absolutely essential for that time of day, as I was working and I was struggling to get out of my shift.

 

[iamterry]

I am honestly wondering whether I may need to go down the route of <something> for my return journey on the 1st of September - I'm waiting with baited breath to see what LNER announce for the route Berwick to Stevenage but given I've got a bike reservation as well as taking two kids, this significantly complicates things. I'm dreading the news that there are no trains available for possibly both the Friday and the Saturday and then wondering what to do next. Especially if I have to then buy a last minute overnight accommodation for us. Ho hum...

 

[MrJeeves]

I could have gone even further and refunded my train ticket as I couldn’t use it, but by the time TPE responded I was well out of the 30 days and didn’t have the effort to argue another case.

The ticket is what entitled you to claim back the travel costs. You can't refund that, and ask the TOC to provide replacement transport (or costs)!

 

[Watershed]

The ticket is what entitled you to claim back the travel costs. You can't refund that, and ask the TOC to provide replacement transport (or costs)!

Indeed. But @_toommm_ would have been entitled to claim delay compensation if sufficiently delayed.

 

[_toommm_]

The ticket is what entitled you to claim back the travel costs. You can't refund that, and ask the TOC to provide replacement transport (or costs)!

Indeed. But @_toommm_ would have been entitled to claim delay compensation if sufficiently delayed.

The bit about refund was indeed mis-spoken on my part. I arrived to Flowery Field 90 minutes later on an Anytime Day Single, so the £19.25 could have been claimed back.

 

[MrJeeves]

Indeed. But @_toommm_ would have been entitled to claim delay compensation if sufficiently delayed.

I would have assumed that the timetable would have been updated sufficiently in advance, and Delay Repay is based on the timetable of the day, isn't it? Or could you argue an exemption based on the booking itinerary?

 

[Watershed]

The bit about refund was indeed mis-spoken on my part. I arrived to Flowery Field 90 minutes later on an Anytime Day Single, so the £19.25 could have been claimed back.

Delay Repay has a 28 day limit but compensation under the PRO doesn't - there's only the (6 year) statute of limitations for that.

I would have assumed that the timetable would have been updated sufficiently in advance, and Delay Repay is based on the timetable of the day, isn't it? Or could you argue an exemption based on the booking itinerary?

TOCs purport to limit Delay Repay based on the so-called "Published Timetable of the Day" (which isn't 'published' in any meaningful sense). The enforceability (or otherwise) of this purported exclusion has been discussed at length in previous threads, however it doesn't alter the entitlement to compensation under the PRO.

 

[MrJeeves]

however it doesn't alter the entitlement to compensation under the PRO

PRO's entitlement had slipped my mind!

 

[PacerTrain142]

Going on holiday to the Cotswolds on 1st September. Will needing to travel by Northern, CrossCountry and Avanti to get there.. All three companies are affected by the strikes… Nooooooooo!

 

[ainsworth74]

Wouldn't really expect much difference from the ombudsman, considering other reports on how useless they are.

Who could have predicated that the furniture ombudsman might not be actually equipped to deliver an effective service for railway complaints...

I am honestly wondering whether I may need to go down the route of <something> for my return journey on the 1st of September - I'm waiting with baited breath to see what LNER announce for the route Berwick to Stevenage but given I've got a bike reservation as well as taking two kids, this significantly complicates things. I'm dreading the news that there are no trains available for possibly both the Friday and the Saturday and then wondering what to do next. Especially if I have to then buy a last minute overnight accommodation for us. Ho hum...

On previous ASLEF strike days LNER have run a skeleton service between London and Edinburgh but only two or three trains at most and I wouldn't be surprised if you need to change at Peterborough as well. You may want to check the LNER strike page: https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/Industrial-action/ for more information. Looks like they've confirmed the timetable for 26 August which shows that a journey to Edinburgh from Stevenage would be doable with a change at Peterborough.

 

[Watershed]

Who could have predicated that the furniture ombudsman might not be actually equipped to deliver an effective service for railway complaints...

They're not even very well reputed in their own domain, so one can hardly be surprised!

 

[Idiotic]

One of my friends was once told by a TOC during a strike when he tried going down the PRO route was that because they allow tickets to be used on days earlier / later they are fulfilling their rights under the ‘earliest opportunity’ and refused to reimburse a hotel at Gatwick after they travelled the day before.

• continuation or re-routeing under comparable transport conditions to the final destination at the earliest opportunity

or

• continuation or re-routeing under comparable transport conditions to the final destination at a later date at the passenger’s convenience

 

[Watershed]

One of my friends was once told by a TOC during a strike when he tried going down the PRO route was that because they allow tickets to be used on days earlier / later they are fulfilling their rights under the ‘earliest opportunity’ and refused to reimburse a hotel at Gatwick after they travelled the day before.

I'd bet that the person who gave that response hasn't the foggiest about how the PRO works.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I'd bet that the person who gave that response hasn't the foggiest about how the PRO works.

I'd hazard a guess that few TOCs, nor RDG, have issued any sort of staff briefing regarding the PRO, nor on Condition 28 of the NRCoT.