ASLEF non-contractual overtime bans -various dates and TOCs

[Bumpkin]

A question: How are XC impacted by this news?

I have to travel up to the north east on Thursday evening to deal with a family matter on Friday, travelling back Friday evening or Saturday morning. The problem is I cant get away from work until 1700 the Thursday so will have to use the later XC trains from Birmingham/Tamworth

From memory Avanti and LNWR were not to badly impacted by overtime bans last time round but I have no knowledge on XC. Any advice greatly appreciated!

Looking at the XC website it says the following on their 'Industrial Action' page

During this period CrossCountry will continue to operate to our advertised timetable. A small number of services may be subject to late-notice cancellation or amendment during this period.

 

[DarloRich]

Looking at the XC website it says the following on their 'Industrial Action' page

thanks - you did better than me in finding that!

 

[Snow1964]

Oh dear, Telegraph (and other Media) are reporting Sky interview with Mr Whelen (General Secretary of ASLEF) that might go on for 20 years

Mick Whelan, the general secretary of the Aslef train drivers’ union, said his members “are going to keep taking action until someone listens to us”.

He said: “Well, if we have to whistle in the wind for five years, 10 years, 20 years to get somebody to the table, this will be resolved at some point and somebody will talk to us properly at some point.”


Asked if Aslef members were really prepared to take industrial action over a 20 year period, Mr Whelan said: “Quite possibly. Because the option is what? To do nothing?”

Access Restricted

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect this won't now be resolved until after a general election.

 

[43066]

Oh dear, Telegraph (and other Media) are reporting Sky interview with Mr Whelen (General Secretary of ASLEF)

Access Restricted

Seems reasonable enough to me.

The point is simply that, until the government is willing to engage with the union and have meaningful negotiations, (as they now appear to be starting to do with doctors) nothing will change.

 

[Snow1964]

I suspect this won't now be resolved until after a general election.

So do I, which rather makes taking further action until that time pointless, as there will be just loss of pay for no progress until that date

 

[43066]

So do I, which rather makes taking further action until that time pointless

Well, if you’re an ASLEF member, you are free to express that view when balloted. If you aren’t, your opinion isn’t particularly relevant.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

So do I, which rather makes taking further action until that time pointless, as there will be just loss of pay for no progress until that date

There is no loss of pay from withdrawing overtime.

 

[43066]

There is no loss of pay from withdrawing overtime.

Indeed. The only people who might lose out are the small minority who work literally all the overtime they can.

Those who do amounts ranging from none, right through to quite a lot, can simply do more of it at other times if they need to (the same goes for strike days - easy enough to do a day’s overtime to recoup the loss, especially as overtime is paid at a higher rate so, if you do one rest day per strike day, you’ll end up with more in your pocket than had the strike not happened!)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2023 ==

EDIT: Hot off the press - a further ASLEF OT ban Monday 17 - Sat 22 July has been announced.

 

[12LDA28C]

Additional dates have been announced for ASLEF overtime ban - 0001 Monday 17th July until 2359 Saturday 22nd July

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2023 ==

Indeed. The only people who might lose out are the small minority who work literally all the overtime they can.

Those who do amounts ranging from none, right through to quite a lot, can simply do more of it at other times if they need to (the same goes for strike days - easy enough to do a day’s overtime to recoup the loss, especially as overtime is paid at a higher rate so, if you do one rest day per strike day, you’ll end up with more in your pocket than had the strike not happened!)

Not all TOCs pay overtime at a higher rate though and of course overtime is not pensionable. Although presumably neither employee or employer pay pension contributions on strike days?

 

[43066]

Not all TOCs pay overtime at a higher rate though and of course overtime is not pensionable. Although presumably neither employee or employer pay pension contributions on strike days?

Yes, that’s true re OT not being pensionable, so there is a loss there. Also correct re strike days AIUI.

 

[DavidKK]

There appear to be more changes to the SWR timetable for this overtime ban than for the one in May. Does anyone know why?

 

[Mag_seven]

There appear to be more changes to the SWR timetable for this overtime ban than for the one in May. Does anyone know why?

Possibly because its now the summer holiday season so more need on overtime to fill turns?

 

[12LDA28C]

There appear to be more changes to the SWR timetable for this overtime ban than for the one in May. Does anyone know why?

At a guess, and this applies to most TOCs, due to annual leave in the Summer there is more reliance on overtime and RDW at this time of year than there is in May.

 

[Towers]

SWR have now published their timetable for that week. Summary of arrangements here:

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Journey planners (including brtimes.com) are all updated

SWR have an auto announcement playing at stations this morning, as well as a message on National Rail, stating that journey planners are, in fact, incorrect.

 

[quartile]

SWR have an auto announcement playing at stations this morning, as well as a message on National Rail, stating that journey planners are, in fact, incorrect.

Is that their way of getting out of paying delay repay?

 

[vikingdriver]

There appear to be more changes to the SWR timetable for this overtime ban than for the one in May. Does anyone know why?

The mainline drivers are now involved, it was just depot drivers previously.

 

[156421]

Not 100% sure but I don't believe the regional side of EMR was largely affected last time. Certainly noticed a few changes on the London services. As Llandudno says if there are any issues then the Transpeak and sixes 6.1 run from Derby to Matlock, both are hourly. The former is the faster of the two routes.

All trains cancelled day between Cleethorpes and Barton-on-Humber

 

[Alex C.]

Journey planners are completely wrong for the Portsmouth Direct Route and Trainline are happily selling tickets for none existent services. At least it means they can’t fiddle their way out of delay repay compensation

 

[Robertj21a]

Whatever the rail staff/Unions want is of little real concern to the travelling public. All these disputes will achieve is a steady lessening of confidence in the ability of the railways to provide a reliable service.
More people WFH or using cars doesn't sound too helpful for an industry already struggling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

All trains cancelled day between Cleethorpes and Barton-on-Humber

Presumably the one man and his dog noticed, though the one with the bicycle is probably just riding it there instead (it's pretty flat around there)

Meanwhile Chiltern seem to be operating a better service than normal on the Met (albeit with a slightly early finish) - longer trains on a number of services than usual, and only a few of the second hourly daytime trains trimmed.

 

[Goldfish62]

Is that their way of getting out of paying delay repay?

That's my thoughts. Be ultra-cautious - therefore no cancellations and no Delay Repay.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

That's my thoughts. Be ultra-cautious - therefore no cancellations and no Delay Repay.

It also helps prevent people getting stranded when last trains etc get cancelled with no crew.

People on here are always banging on about how they wish TPE would do an emergency timetable to give sone surety.

 

[Goldfish62]

Seems reasonable enough to me.

The point is simply that, until the government is willing to engage with the union and have meaningful negotiations, (as they now appear to be starting to do with doctors) nothing will change.

It's reasonable in that industrial action was pretty much a permanent feature of the railways in BR days. Perhaps not so reasonable if it means no pay rise for his members for another 20 years, most of whom will have retired or otherwise left before then!

Unfortunately I don't see the government being willing to engage - they simply don't care enough about the railways. I think that's more than obvious by now. Needs all-out action by both unions to bring things to a head.

 

[43066]

It also helps prevent people getting stranded when last trains etc get cancelled with no crew.

My TOC has specifically advised against relying on last trains, and has apparently suspended sales of advance tickets, which seem sensible steps to take .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2023 ==

It's reasonable in that industrial action was pretty much a permanent feature of the railways in BR days. Perhaps not so reasonable if it means no pay rise for his members for another 20 years, most of whom will have retired or otherwise left before then!

Unfortunately I don't see the government being willing to engage - they simply don't care enough about the railways. I think that's more than obvious by now. Needs all-out action by both unions to bring things to a head.

The “20 years” comment is a ridiculous thing for the media to have jumped on, as very clearly the point was being made that the dispute is indefinite but will ultimately be resolved. The government can choose to continue to waste public money supporting this (and other) disputes if it wishes, at least until the next election. I don’t see that strategy as likely to win it many voters, though. Perhaps it doesn’t care.

Keep going and see where things are in the autumn seems to be the strategy for now. As you say, perhaps an escalation then. I’m not 100% sold on the wisdom of taking action during the summer recess.

 

[Goldfish62]

The “20 years” comment is a ridiculous thing for the media to have jumped on, as very clearly the point was being made that the dispute is indefinite but will ultimately be resolved. The government can choose to continue to waste public money supporting this (and other) disputes if it wishes, at least until the next election. I don’t see that strategy as likely to win it many voters, though. Perhaps it doesn’t care.

Agree with all that.

I've just watched said interview and Mick Wheelan came across very well.

 

[PeterY]

I

Unfortunately I don't see the government being willing to engage - they simply don't care enough about the railways. I think that's more than obvious by now. Needs all-out action by both unions to bring things to a head.

I agree with you Goldfish62 . People have got used to planning around the odd strike day here and there. An overtime ban is a bit inconvenient. IMO I think the only way this will be resolved is all out action.

 

[Bletchleyite]

IMO I think the only way this will be resolved is all out action.

Yes, I agree. If the Unions want to force the Government's hand it will need to be "we won't work until we have an agreement".

Otherwise it'll just bubble on until a change of Government.

 

[43066]

Yes, I agree. If the Unions want to force the Government's hand it will need to be "we won't work until we have an agreement".

Otherwise it'll just bubble on until a change of Government.

Then again the position appears to be changing in relation to the NHS. No reason why the same shouldn’t happen regarding the railway, as it would cost a lot less to alter the conditions offered in a way ASLEF could credibly recommend to its membership.

Otherwise I think many are indeed resigned to this continuing until the next election. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.

 

[Robertj21a]

Then again the position appears to be changing in relation to the NHS. No reason why the same shouldn’t happen regarding the railway, as it would cost a lot less to alter the conditions offered in a way ASLEF could credibly recommend to its membership.

Otherwise I think many are indeed resigned to this continuing until the next election. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.

It's a big leap of faith to believe that a different political party will be rushing to resolve railway issues above other areas that may well still be outstanding at thee time.