Aslef losing membership.

[forestboy003]

I’m a Driver, in a TOC, keep hearing of quite a high number of Drivers leaving Aslef over the handling of the current dispute. Aslef will not reveal numbers, at one of the last webinars they gave they said no more than 10 across all TOCs, but given i know of 4, including myself last week, at just my depot, these figures don’t add up.

i was told yesterday of over 20 in my district from a DDC member, I’m in the GWR area, wondering if these figures are being seen across the country and might explain Aslefs recent change in tone to talks….

 

[AverageJoe]

ASLEF have been open to talks though.

 

[Urobach]

I’m a Driver, in a TOC, keep hearing of quite a high number of Drivers leaving Aslef over the handling of the current dispute. Aslef will not reveal numbers, at one of the last webinars they gave they said no more than 10 across all TOCs, but given i know of 4, including myself last week, at just my depot, these figures don’t add up.

i was told yesterday of over 20 in my district from a DDC member, I’m in the GWR area, wondering if these figures are being seen across the country and might explain Aslefs recent change in tone to talks….

I can't say your experience matches the view I see from colleagues at my TOC, with the frustration aimed at the RDG/Govt, not ASLEF for how this dispute is being handled

Can't say I've heard anyone openly declaring they've had enough and leaving ASLEF either

 

[fodphil]

I’m a Driver, in a TOC, keep hearing of quite a high number of Drivers leaving Aslef over the handling of the current dispute. Aslef will not reveal numbers, at one of the last webinars they gave they said no more than 10 across all TOCs, but given i know of 4, including myself last week, at just my depot, these figures don’t add up.

i was told yesterday of over 20 in my district from a DDC member, I’m in the GWR area, wondering if these figures are being seen across the country and might explain Aslefs recent change in tone to talks….

I suppose you will accept a pay rise if the union negotiate one?

 

[12LDA28C]

I suppose you will accept a pay rise if the union negotiate one?

Indeed. Not really ethical to continue to enjoy the benefits of being in a club whilst not being a member, so to speak.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I watched the Green Signals podcast of a couple of months ago where Mick Whelan was interviewed. By and large he talked a lot of sense, although his occasional bolshy side shone through. The working from spare (A/R) is clearly an issue for Aslef but IMHO every employee in a shift ops job with have spare cover to work. . Although I joined BR in 1978 if wasn't really until 1994 that I had spare in my roster but I accept it is what I have to do. My next 10 shifts are RD, 07-14, 07-14, 07-19, 07-19, then five shifts from A/R. 21-07,, 21-07, can't catch, 06-13 and 21-06. It is what it is, but in my view A/R is part of your work routine

 

[scrapy]

I’m a Driver, in a TOC, keep hearing of quite a high number of Drivers leaving Aslef over the handling of the current dispute. Aslef will not reveal numbers, at one of the last webinars they gave they said no more than 10 across all TOCs, but given i know of 4, including myself last week, at just my depot, these figures don’t add up.

i was told yesterday of over 20 in my district from a DDC member, I’m in the GWR area, wondering if these figures are being seen across the country and might explain Aslefs recent change in tone to talks….

When you say it's over ASLEFs handling of the dispute. What do you feel they are doing wrong? what do you suggest they do instead? Have you attended branch meetings and made your feelings known?

 

[12LDA28C]

I watched the Green Signals podcast of a couple of months ago where Mick Whelan was interviewed. By and large he talked a lot of sense, although his occasional bolshy side shone through. The working from spare (A/R) is clearly an issue for Aslef but IMHO every employee in a shift ops job with have spare cover to work. . Although I joined BR in 1978 if wasn't really until 1994 that I had spare in my roster but I accept it is what I have to do. My next 10 shifts are RD, 07-14, 07-14, 07-19, 07-19, then five shifts from A/R. 21-07,, 21-07, can't catch, 06-13 and 21-06. It is what it is, but in my view A/R is part of your work routine

What does that have to do with members deciding to leave ASLEF?

 

[Sly Old Fox]

I’m not sure that this forum is the place to ask this sort of question. I highly doubt Mick Whelan is reading and on the tiny change he is he’s not overly likely to reply.

For what it’s worth I know two drivers who left at the start of the dispute and a handful since. Not enough to worry aslef.

 

[dk1]

Not heard anything like this and know nobody who has left the union. Just the usual moans & groans in the messroom about subs going up again but that’s life. Bit of a positive buzz about the recent news & the RDG officially withdrawing the pathetic 2023 offer from the table.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Despite many grumblings at my depot, none have said they have left the union.

Most grumblings are over new rest day agreements and ongoing training which they think should have stopped. Also annoyance over subs going up despite no pay rise for 4/5 years

 

[bengley]

I’m a Driver, in a TOC, keep hearing of quite a high number of Drivers leaving Aslef over the handling of the current dispute. Aslef will not reveal numbers, at one of the last webinars they gave they said no more than 10 across all TOCs, but given i know of 4, including myself last week, at just my depot, these figures don’t add up.

i was told yesterday of over 20 in my district from a DDC member, I’m in the GWR area, wondering if these figures are being seen across the country and might explain Aslefs recent change in tone to talks….

The GWR area is traditionally Tory so doesn't surprise me that people such as yourself are leaving a socialist democratic union!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Indeed. Not really ethical to continue to enjoy the benefits of being in a club whilst not being a member, so to speak.

I guess by that logic, I should avoid walking around and enjoying one of my local parks, which was done up by a group of volunteers that I was not a member of. And I guess if my local council, whom I did not vote for at the last elections, opens a new cycle path or some other nice amenity, then I should avoid using it because I wasn't a member of, and did nothing to help, the party that brought it in.

 

[theironroad]

Judging by a few replies on a thread to do with a guest speaker at today's Aslef AAD, there may be a few pushed over the edge to resign.

Obviously with the political landscape about to change, things maybe more stable but I wonder if Aslef's small craft union size is no longer suitable. Mick Whelan said in one of the webinars that they have to be cautious in this dispute as 14 TOCs winning a high court judgement ) or even going to the HC) would bankrupt Aslef in an instant. Have to wonder if this has a bearing on tactics. At least the sub rise this year has been far more reasonable than last year's.

 

[Moonshot]

I watched the Green Signals podcast of a couple of months ago where Mick Whelan was interviewed. By and large he talked a lot of sense, although his occasional bolshy side shone through. The working from spare (A/R) is clearly an issue for Aslef but IMHO every employee in a shift ops job with have spare cover to work. . Although I joined BR in 1978 if wasn't really until 1994 that I had spare in my roster but I accept it is what I have to do. My next 10 shifts are RD, 07-14, 07-14, 07-19, 07-19, then five shifts from A/R. 21-07,, 21-07, can't catch, 06-13 and 21-06. It is what it is, but in my view A/R is part of your work routine

This was actually a topic of conversation at my depot the other week. I'm not concerned about it myself, but it does get others backs up.....not sure what the answer is if I'm honest

 

[66701GBRF]

Indeed. Not really ethical to continue to enjoy the benefits of being in a club whilst not being a member, so to speak.

Non union members receive the same returns as union members all the time, just the way it is. Also, presumably the OP has been a paid member and taken action for the last couple of years so it is a bit unfair to effectively say they don't deserve a pay rise.

 

[forestboy003]

I was a member of Aslef for over 27 years, and yes I’ve supported the current action, but I’ve had enough. I will be joining RMT, and won’t cross an Aslef picket line, but I can no longer support the current EC, their handling of the dispute has been shocking.
latest rumour I heard yesterday was that Whelan is going to be given a seat in the House of Lords! Once labour are in power, fits in very nicely as he keeps telling us he’s retiring……..

 

[james_the_xv]

Indeed. Not really ethical to continue to enjoy the benefits of being in a club whilst not being a member, so to speak.

It's basic economics / game theory. If you can free-ride then it's advantageous to do so.

 

[12LDA28C]

It's basic economics / game theory. If you can free-ride then it's advantageous to do so.

Advantageous to the minority yes. Not to the others who 'play by the rules'.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2024 ==

I guess by that logic, I should avoid walking around and enjoying one of my local parks, which was done up by a group of volunteers that I was not a member of. And I guess if my local council, whom I did not vote for at the last elections, opens a new cycle path or some other nice amenity, then I should avoid using it because I wasn't a member of, and did nothing to help, the party that brought it in.

That's not a valid comparison and you know it. A more suitable analogy would be if your local park required an entrance fee that the vast majority paid in order to enjoy the park's facilities but a small minority bunked over the wall to get in for free.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2024 ==

Despite many grumblings at my depot, none have said they have left the union.

Most grumblings are over new rest day agreements and ongoing training which they think should have stopped. Also annoyance over subs going up despite no pay rise for 4/5 years

Indeed. I'm sure ASLEF wouldn't settle for any pay deal that increased salaries by a lesser percentage than the subs have gone up during the same period... would they?

 

[bengley]

I was a member of Aslef for over 27 years, and yes I’ve supported the current action, but I’ve had enough. I will be joining RMT, and won’t cross an Aslef picket line, but I can no longer support the current EC, their handling of the dispute has been shocking.
latest rumour I heard yesterday was that Whelan is going to be given a seat in the House of Lords! Once labour are in power, fits in very nicely as he keeps telling us he’s retiring……..

Ah yes, as expected. Thanks for confirming

 

[james_the_xv]

Advantageous to the minority yes. Not to the others who 'play by the rules'.

There are no rules. If the trade union is effective it's always advantageous to free ride up until the point the trade union is not effective.

While I have no desire to send this thread into the realm of game theory, it's that attitude that stops people who are on the fence about joining the union from doing so.

 

[12LDA28C]

Non union members receive the same returns as union members all the time, just the way it is.

So what is the benefit of being in a Union then? Might as well not bother and save yourself £480 a year. You'd still benefit from improvements to Ts & Cs gained through collective bargaining and an (historical) annual pay rise, just losing out on representation.

 

[EZJ]

latest rumour I heard yesterday was that Whelan is going to be given a seat in the House of Lords! Once labour are in power, fits in very nicely as he keeps telling us he’s retiring……..

Ah yes the good old rumour mill, I can't believe for one minute you actually think that's true. Sounds like you have an axe to grind for whatever reason. Support for action as demonstrated by the ballot results is still very strong.

 

[Train_manager]

So what is the benefit of being in a Union then? Might as well not bother and save yourself £480 a year. You'd still benefit from improvements to Ts & Cs gained through collective bargaining and an (historical) annual pay rise, just losing out on representation.

A free diary?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2024 ==

I was a member of Aslef for over 27 years, and yes I’ve supported the current action, but I’ve had enough. I will be joining RMT, and won’t cross an Aslef picket line, but I can no longer support the current EC, their handling of the dispute has been shocking.
latest rumour I heard yesterday was that Whelan is going to be given a seat in the House of Lords! Once labour are in power, fits in very nicely as he keeps telling us he’s retiring……..

But you will lose your right to vote on weather the strike should continue.

Does seem a bit back to me. Lose a day's pay during action but no vote?

 

[12LDA28C]

A free diary?

Haha! Exactly, or a £480 diary depending on your viewpoint.

 

[james_the_xv]

So what is the benefit of being in a Union then? Might as well not bother and save yourself £480 a year. You'd still benefit from improvements to Ts & Cs gained through collective bargaining and an (historical) annual pay rise, just losing out on representation.

You are almost exactly describing the 'free rider problem' in a trade union context. I'd recommend you go an read/watch some resources regarding this as it pretty much explains the whole 'why doesn't everyone join a trade union in a majority unionised industry?' question.

 

[Train_manager]

Haha! Exactly, or a £480 diary depending on your viewpoint.

Well worth it in my opinion

 

[12LDA28C]

You are almost exactly describing the 'free rider problem' in a trade union context. I'd recommend you go an read/watch some resources regarding this as it pretty much explains the whole 'why doesn't everyone join a trade union in a majority unionised industry?' question.

Except of course that pretty much all train drivers are in ASLEF who claim to represent 96% of drivers.

 

[james_the_xv]

Except of course that pretty much all train drivers are in ASLEF who claim to represent 96% of drivers.

Ignoring the fact that 96% =/= 100%, ASLEF has a decent record of fighting for member's rights outside of pay talks so there is increased incentive to join. For the TSSA, as an example, I'd that figure is much lower as the incentive is less outside of general pay talks.

I'd also say that the 96% figure should be taken with a good pinch of salt, there's probably a bit of creative accounting occurring to look better.

 

[irish_rail]

The GWR area is traditionally Tory so doesn't surprise me that people such as yourself are leaving a socialist democratic union!

Sorry this needs correcting. London, Labour. Oxford, Lib Dem. Plymouth half Labour half tory. Exeter Labour. Bristol largely Labour. Swansea and Cardiff , Labour. I think you have got it all wrong. Very much not Tory territory. Just like oooop north, when you go out into the countryside and away from the cities then there are more Tories. No different to the likes of Cumbria or Yorkkshire away from the cities, so let's not tar GWR land with the Tory brush thankyou very much. Where thr drivers are based are not Tory places. And by the way, the OP observations are completely at odds with what I have seen, I haven't come across a single GWR driver leave Aslef due to handling of this strike action.