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ASLEF and RMT agree: no more DOO or DCO

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BestWestern

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As for Unions striking over conditions and changes to terms and conditions etc it will be interesting to see what happens with the situation with Junior Doctors. A strike which does have some public support.

I suspect (and hope) that we shall see some widescale refusal to accept the Government's sinister policies, which incite people to take industrial action and then desperately try to avoid the consequences by forcing laws which make that action impossible. With a rather respectable group such as doctors at the heart of things now, as opposed to just the usual hooligans and students, it would be pleasing to see a strategy of protest emerging that is both effective yet dignified.
 
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A-driver

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Let's be realistic, this is 2016 not the 1926 miners general strike or something, people have families, mortgages etc so I'm sure it would be far from 100% of a TOCs drivers that would ultimately choose compulsory redundancy over DOO or DCD


It's never going to come to that though as no TOC would be stupid enough to sack all its drivers meaning it's unable to run a single train for the next 2-3 years until they have recruited enough. It's fantasy land and never, ever going to happen.
 

BestWestern

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On the subject of redundancies; once upon a time there was a shiny, newly privatised company called South West Trains. They decided it would be a good idea to get shot of a load of those tedious old British Rail dinosaurs, and run their railway with new blokes who would do exactly as they were told. Unfortunately, all those tedious old dinosaurs were the ones who actually knew how to drive the trains, while the new blokes didn't. And, umm, it all sort of went tits-up for a while. Ooops, how embarrassing.

I don't think too many TOCs will be getting rid of all their Drivers anytime soon ;)
 

FordFocus

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On the subject of redundancies; once upon a time there was a shiny, newly privatised company called South West Trains. They decided it would be a good idea to get shot of a load of those tedious old British Rail dinosaurs, and run their railway with new blokes who would do exactly as they were told. Unfortunately, all those tedious old dinosaurs were the ones who actually knew how to drive the trains, while the new blokes didn't. And, umm, it all sort of went tits-up for a while. Ooops, how embarrassing.

I don't think too many TOCs will be getting rid of all their Drivers anytime soon ;)

The BR men with a few years left saw the money and where the company was going and took the cash.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/south-west-trains-to-sack-hundreds-1343451.html

Then... http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/risk-passengers-train-drivers-work-4860520
 
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Carlisle

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Things have matured a bit since that early privatisation debacle by SWT. Government/DFT now clearly want to see a sensibly managed industry capable of adapting to changes where they think it makes sense and are prepared to back the industry through this,
 
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highdyke

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As for DOO-P working in heavily trafficked london .How will it work on rural branch lines with masses of unmanned stations with old stupidly low platforms and being miles away from anywhere .

There's an awful lot of places that are rural locations where DOO-P is in operation on the Chiltern, GWR, Southern, East Anglian and South Eastern lines. Most freight trains are DOO and they can be in the middle of Scotland or the Lake District.

There are many studies that have concluded even in these circumstances DOO-P does not pose a risk, including a couple by RSSB. And we are talking about overall risk, there will be freak occurrences of course. There is no dam or bridge that is 100% safe, no medical operation that is 100% safe. Unfortunately there is not unlimited resources and you cannot prevent all eventualities.

The point is, guards are better off assisting passengers in the event of an accident/incidents and serving their needs rather than running off down the track to apply emergency detonators. Drivers are better off operating doors, if to enable guards to collect tickets, serve and promote rail services get trains away from stations in a timely manner.

It doesn't matter what grade you are, you must report any accident to operations control or the signaller, safety critical or not. In fact, the public are also obliged (morally and in some cases legally) to report serious accidents to the emergency services. In the event of an accident this is what they do. There has been occasions where 999 operators are aware of incidents before the railway authorities are.

The bus point is even more relevant when you consider how reality uncontrolled that environment is. In some ways the railway industry has itself to blame for disputes over the role of the guard. Very few train crew are versed in the signalling regulations and may not be aware of other procedures that come into play during incidents. But it is better to think the railway as 'a system' rather an environment of purely independent vehicles, in that sense they are many inherent advantages over buses (or even aircraft and marine vehicles) in terms of safety, even without a traditional guard on the modern railway.
 
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muz379

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There's an awful lot of places that are rural locations where DOO-P is in operation on the Chiltern, GWR, Southern, East Anglian and South Eastern lines. Most freight trains are DOO and they can be in the middle of Scotland or the Lake District.

There are many studies that have concluded even in these circumstances DOO-P does not pose a risk, including a couple by RSSB. And we are talking about overall risk, there will be freak occurrences of course. There is no dam or bridge that is 100% safe, no medical operation that is 100% safe. Unfortunately there is not unlimited resources and you cannot prevent all eventualities.

The point is, guards are better off assisting passengers in the event of an accident/incidents and serving their needs rather than running off down the track to apply emergency detonators. Drivers are better off operating doors, if to enable guards to collect tickets, serve and promote rail services get trains away from stations in a timely manner.

It doesn't matter what grade you are, you must report any accident to operations control or the signaller, safety critical or not. In fact, the public are also obliged (morally and in some cases legally) to report serious accidents to the emergency services. In the event of an accident this is what they do. There has been occasions where 999 operators are aware of incidents before the railway authorities are.

The bus point is even more relevant when you consider how reality uncontrolled that environment is. In some ways the railway industry has itself to blame for disputes over the role of the guard. Very few train crew are versed in the signalling regulations and may not be aware of other procedures that come into play during incidents. But it is better to think the railway as 'a system' rather an environment of purely independent vehicles, in that sense they are many inherent advantages over buses (or even aircraft and marine vehicles) in terms of safety, even without a traditional guard on the modern railway.
Care to actually provide citations for the studies you have read then ?

Guards and drivers are quite rightly better off assisting passengers in the event of an accident which is why developments like GSMR are brilliant as they allow the signaler to put everything to red straight away and allow the traincrew to assess the situation , However in the area i operate (And I suspect other areas ) the GSMR does still occasionally loose signal . For this reason we are still trained in emergency protection .

It is also widely disputed that drivers doing the doors would improve punctuality . Countless times I have shortened dwell times by using the whistle to speed up boarding . I have got people stood dangerously close to stand back . I have waved people away who are trying to hold the doors for their mates . I have also saved on potential on train issues and potential for extended dwell times by making sure people with their bikes ,buggies and large items of luggage board at the correct door . These are things a driver sat in a cab watching on CCTV cannot do .

What situation do the public have a legal duty to act to report an incident ? Their moral duty means nothing btw . Many people are out for themselves and will not give a second thought to anybody else .
 
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455driver

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10 May 2010
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There's an awful lot of places that are rural locations where DOO-P is in operation on the Chiltern, GWR, Southern, East Anglian and South Eastern lines. Most freight trains are DOO and they can be in the middle of Scotland or the Lake District.

There are many studies that have concluded even in these circumstances DOO-P does not pose a risk, including a couple by RSSB. And we are talking about overall risk, there will be freak occurrences of course. There is no dam or bridge that is 100% safe, no medical operation that is 100% safe. Unfortunately there is not unlimited resources and you cannot prevent all eventualities.

The point is, guards are better off assisting passengers in the event of an accident/incidents and serving their needs rather than running off down the track to apply emergency detonators. Drivers are better off operating doors, if to enable guards to collect tickets, serve and promote rail services get trains away from stations in a timely manner.

It doesn't matter what grade you are, you must report any accident to operations control or the signaller, safety critical or not. In fact, the public are also obliged (morally and in some cases legally) to report serious accidents to the emergency services. In the event of an accident this is what they do. There has been occasions where 999 operators are aware of incidents before the railway authorities are.

The bus point is even more relevant when you consider how reality uncontrolled that environment is. In some ways the railway industry has itself to blame for disputes over the role of the guard. Very few train crew are versed in the signalling regulations and may not be aware of other procedures that come into play during incidents. But it is better to think the railway as 'a system' rather an environment of purely independent vehicles, in that sense they are many inherent advantages over buses (or even aircraft and marine vehicles) in terms of safety, even without a traditional guard on the modern railway.
The highlighted bit proves that you are nothing more than a troll, I cant be bothered answering the rest of the cr4p in that post.

No doubt this post of mine will be deleted as well as it 'adds nothing to thread' while this troll is allowed free reign to post his opinion as fact even though its cr4p (which has been done to death 20 times before) and only serves to **** off the rail staff on here!
 
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A-driver

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The highlighted bit proves that you are nothing more than a troll, I cant be bothered answering the rest of the cr4p in that post.

No doubt this post of mine will be deleted as well as it 'adds nothing to thread' while this troll is allowed free reign to post his opinion as fact even though its cr4p (which has been done to death 20 times before) and only serves to **** off the rail staff on here!


Absolutely.

Will look out for the message telling me this post has been deleted for 'referring to content in a deleted post'...
 

tony6499

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The highlighted bit proves that you are nothing more than a troll, I cant be bothered answering the rest of the cr4p in that post.

No doubt this post of mine will be deleted as well as it 'adds nothing to thread' while this troll is allowed free reign to post his opinion as fact even though its cr4p (which has been done to death 20 times before) and only serves to **** off the rail staff on here!

It demeans this forum when people are allowed to troll such rubbish
 

ainsworth74

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It would seem we're now rehashing the same tired old arguments as always as such this thread is locked to prevent everyone winding each other up (deliberately or otherwise) and falling out.

If there are developments regarding the agreement between the RMT and ASLEF please would someone contact myself or another member of the staff team and we'll look into reopening this thread or starting a new one.

Many thanks.
 
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