Ashford to Brighton During Marshlink Closure

[TheJRB]

I was taking a look at the fares to Brighton from Ashford during the closure of the Marshlink line.

According to National Rail Enquiries and Southeastern, off peak day return is £13.20 per adult and £6.20 per child. However the thing that I'm interested in is that the same price applies to both routes mentioned (both via Tonbridge, Redhill and Gatwick Airport as well as via HS1, St Pancras and Thameslink). Southeastern also show this ticket as being valid for outbound travel via one route and return via the other. The Ashford to St Pancras off peak day return fare is usually greater than this ticket all the way to Brighton so what I'm asking is, is this really correct?

 

[John @ home]

what I'm asking is, is this really correct?

Quite probably.

On occasions due to short notice engineering work and disruption, services may be diverted from their normal routes or customers asked to use alternative routes. In these circumstances operators will make special provision to allow extra permitted routes. They will advise other operators and retailers of the extra provisions made to convey customers by routes other than those which are normally permitted. This provision will also apply to connecting services which are not directly affected. Any through train diverted from its usual route will count as a permitted route between the stations it is normally scheduled to call at. This does not apply to additional stops on the diversionary route, unless specially advised or they are on the permitted route for the journey being made.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/instructions.pdf

 

[TheJRB]

Well that's good. Seems quite a good offer.

 

[IanD]

When I look on NRE, it shows £47.10 via HS1 and £13.20 via London Bridge or Tonbridge.

 

[TheJRB]

When I look on NRE, it shows £47.10 via HS1 and £13.20 via London Bridge or Tonbridge.

Interesting. It still shows the same fares for both when I look at it (see here).
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Oh and one further question: would this ticket be valid on First Great Western services between Redhill and Gatwick Airport? I assume it would be as they are the same price usually.

 

[John @ home]

would this ticket be valid on First Great Western services between Redhill and Gatwick Airport.

During the Marshlink closure, the route via Edenbridge and Redhill would appear to be the shortest route by rail. The shortest route is always a Permitted Route.

 

[Mike395]

During the Marshlink closure, the route via Edenbridge and Redhill would appear to be the shortest route by rail. The shortest route is always a Permitted Route.

Does this apply even where a replacement bus is provided?

 

[John @ home]

I would say it does if an alternative route wholly by rail is advertised. Offering to sell tickets at the "route via Hastings" price with a travel itinerary normally appropriate to the "route Not via London" or "route + Any Permitted" tickets would constitute an advertisement.

 

[SickyNicky]

Does this apply even where a replacement bus is provided?

Last year I was happily sold ANY PERMITTED tickets with reservations via a non-permitted route (Askam to Crewe via Carlisle) when the Arnside viaduct was closed. I told the Barrow ticket office I would rather travel by train even though it took longer.

 

[cjohnson]

When I look on NRE, it shows £47.10 via HS1 and £13.20 via London Bridge or Tonbridge.

It seems to give the £13.20 fare if trains are running through the Thameslink 'core' for the date and times selected. If you need to transfer across London on the tube it will offer the more expensive fare.

 

[gdale1]

The price has now gone up if you go via St Pancras

 

[34D]

I would say it does if an alternative route wholly by rail is advertised. Offering to sell tickets at the "route via Hastings" price with a travel itinerary normally appropriate to the "route Not via London" or "route + Any Permitted" tickets would constitute an advertisement.

If a future scenario occurred in a PF area, I would want to have a little more comfort.

I seem to recall a closure somewhere near reading on FCC, where a journey could have been done wholly by rail by making a direct/via/not restriction the same as an equivalent any permitted, yet FCC chose not to relax and insisted on bus use.

It seems to give the £13.20 fare if trains are running through the Thameslink 'core' for the date and times selected. If you need to transfer across London on the tube it will offer the more expensive fare.

National rail tickets are accepted on LU (at no further cost) when the core is closed. I suggest that this is a limitation of the booking/search system, and that those tickets are valid - though convincing LU staff of this is another matter.

 

[Mike395]

I seem to recall a closure somewhere near reading on FCC, where a journey could have been done wholly by rail by making a direct/via/not restriction the same as an equivalent any permitted, yet FCC chose not to relax and insisted on bus use.

I assume you mean FGW? FCC go nowhere near Reading :P

 

[TheJRB]

The price has now gone up if you go via St Pancras

Indeed all tickets to Brighton have gone up. On both routes it's now £42.40 return or two singles at £13.10 each way per adult. That is silly pricing. At least before it was a nice discount for Marshlink users during the closure. Now? It's almost twice again the cost. A right joke in my opinion. :roll:
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Another look shows that on a Saturday, it seems to be £15 per adult day return via Tonbridge and Redhill.

 

[richardm]

Brighton - Ashford fares via Hastings have been subject to a fare cap since the through service was introduced in December 2005, hence they are significantly cheaper than other routes.

They are especially cheap at the moment because Southern has brought in a temporary 50% reduction on the Ashford - Hastings leg for the duration of the line closure.

http://www.southernrailway.com/sout...works-southern-announces-special-fares-offer/

At other times, the journey may be made either one way or day return for £12 using the Southern Daysave ticket:

http://www.southernrailway.com/tickets-and-fares/ticket-types/daysave/

You couldn't use this any other route out of Ashford (e.g. via Tonbridge) because the other routes are operated by Southeastern.

 

[John @ home]

Brighton - Ashford fares via Hastings have been subject to a fare cap since the through service was introduced in December 2005,

Not quite. Only certain fares are protected or regulated, and hence subject to a fares cap. First Class fares and Standard Advance fares are never protected or regulated. Protected fares include Standard season tickets and Anytime Day Returns (SDRs) in commuter areas, and Off-Peak Returns (SVRs) elsewhere. The lowest Brighton - Ashford fare which can be bought on the day of travel, the Off-Peak Day Return (CDR), is not protected or regulated.

hence they are significantly cheaper than other routes.

Not always. Fares in the current National Fares Manual include:

Brighton - Ashford Intl

Route Hastings
CDR £15.00 Validity Code B3
Standard 7-day season £60.00
First Class 7-day season £90.00.

Route Not Via London
CDR £15.00 Validity Code B3
Standard 7-day season £60.00
First Class 7-day season £90.00.

They are especially cheap at the moment because Southern has brought in a temporary 50% reduction on the Ashford - Hastings leg for the duration of the line closure.

http://www.southernrailway.com/sout...works-southern-announces-special-fares-offer/

This is a good offer, but the reduction in the £15 CDR Brighton - Ashford Intl route via Hastings is only £1.80 (12%) if bought from Southern.

At other times, the journey may be made either one way or day return for £12 using the Southern Daysave ticket:

http://www.southernrailway.com/tickets-and-fares/ticket-types/daysave/

This too is a good offer. I have used the ticket. But it cannot be bought on the day of travel. The requirement to buy 7 - 14 days in advance restricts its usefulness.

You couldn't use this any other route out of Ashford (e.g. via Tonbridge) because the other routes are operated by Southeastern.

This is not true. A passenger with a £15 CDR Brighton - Ashford Intl route via Hastings may travel via Tonbridge in accordance with NRCoC Condition 13(e) upon payment of the difference between the price paid for the ticket you hold (£15) and the price of the lowest priced ticket(s) available for immediate travel that would have entitled you to travel by that route (£15), that is zero. A passenger with a £13.20 CDR Brighton - Ashford Intl route via Hastings would pay an excess fare of 90p for each leg of the journey travelled via Tonbridge.

The fact that parts of other routes are operated by different train companies is not relevant here. NRCoC Condition 10 allows the validity of a ticket to be restricted to travel in the trains of a particular Train Company or Train Companies if the restriction is shown on the ticket. This is not shown in this instance, therefore an excess fare from one route to another is allowed by Condition 13(e).

Finally, welcome to the forum richardm!

 

[richardm]

If you live in Hastings, Eastbourne or Lewes you can buy a Daysave on the day of travel from the Tourist Information Centres. In Brighton it is available from the Brighton and Hove Buses shop on Old Steine.

I don't know if it is available anywhere in West Sussex.

As you will be aware, it is valid on all Southern off-peak services, so you can use it for the entire width of the Southern network between Ashford and Southampton.
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Have also checked Southern website:

Southampton to Ashford day return is the same price as Brighton - Ashford day return (£15)

From Southampton is descibed as Route Via Barnham

From Brighton is 2 identical fares: Route Via Hastings and Not London