Ashford International Incident

[Saint66]

Sounds like a nasty PUT occurred earlier at Ashford. Lines are not expected to open until 5pm at least now. The emergency services were alerted at 11:40am.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31693733

Eurostar services have been suspended after a person was hit by a train on the line in Kent.

British Transport Police (BTP) and Kent Police were called to the incident at about 11:40 GMT on the line close to Crismill Lane in Bearsted.

The BTP said: "Medics from South East Coast Ambulance Service also attended the incident, but the person was pronounced dead at the scene."

The rail company has advised customers to avoid travelling on the line.

In a statement, the BTP said the incident was being treated as "non-suspicious", adding: "Officers are currently working to establish the identity of the person and how they came to be on the tracks".

Lots of queues and people waiting at St Pancras for both Eurostar and High Speed.

Thoughts with all those involved.

 

[gavin]

19:00 is the latest estimate now for disruption to ease though trains are now able to run

 

[2R84]

Wasn't Ashford, but further up the line the other side of Lenham, where the train involved would have been traveling at line speed.

Will not go into the details but well done to everyone involved in dealing with it, as it sounded like a rather bad one.


Massive disruption at Ashford station. 2 London bound Eurostar trains terminated in the platforms and passengers eventually transferred to the 'classic' lines, which were already busy due to no HS1.

 

[theageofthetra]

Must have been horrendous at that speed. Thoughts with crew and all who assisted. Out of interest how easy is access to the lineside at this place- I assumed that HS1 was slightly more secure than most lines?

 

[2R84]

Must have been horrendous at that speed. Thoughts with crew and all who assisted. Out of interest how easy is access to the lineside at this place- I assumed that HS1 was slightly more secure than most lines?

HS1 lineside fencing is good, quality high fencing along the entire line and security patrols, but the incident occurred via a footbridge.

 

[TheJRB]

First time I'm aware of an incident like this happening (i.e. a fatality on the high speed section).

There seems to have been an additional train to and from London this afternoon, the 13:00 Ashford to Charing Cross and the 14:30 return. The return trip took just precisely an hour! Shows what can be got out of the "classic" line if it's needed.

 

[2R84]

First one I have heard about too.

Amazed that they managed to put that extra service on so quickly! A shame it was before the rush of 600 eurostar passengers which all wanted to get on a 4 car....

Ironic that southeastern just taken Fawkham junction off everyones routecards, although I assume it would require a double reversal to use from Ashford.

 

[Welshman]

There seems to have been an additional train to and from London this afternoon, the 13:00 Ashford to Charing Cross and the 14:30 return. The return trip took just precisely an hour! Shows what can be got out of the "classic" line if it's needed.

Yet when I was travelling to university in Canterbury in 1970-71, the x00 from Charing Cross regularly arrived into Ashford at x57, with just the one stop at Waterloo East, and that was every hour.

45 years ago!

 

[Cletus]

I turned up at St Pancras at 3.00pm not realising there'd been an incident or that the lines had been shut for that long.

That left a traipse to London Bridge forgetting that the Kent coast trains weren't stopping there So I went to Sevenoaks to await a train, eventually arriving at Dover Priory at 6.10pm.

It was a bit annoying for me in that I'd come up from "south of the river" especially to get a HS1 services back to Dover. Had I'd known I could have detoured to a Charing Cross service.

 

[Class 170101]

Thought SE High speed might have run services as far as Ebbsfleet and thence to Faversham and perhaps to Dover this way.

 

[Antman]

Thought SE High speed might have run services as far as Ebbsfleet and thence to Faversham and perhaps to Dover this way.

And possibly to Ashford via the Medway Valley line with a reversal at Paddock Wood?

 

[Cletus]

Thought SE High speed might have run services as far as Ebbsfleet and thence to Faversham and perhaps to Dover this way.

You're probably right, I didn't go up to the platforms because there were no platform numbers displayed on the departure boards, so I assumed that no trains were departing from St Pancras.

 

[HowardGWR]

Looking at RTT it looks as though some services eventually got through in the London direction but it seemed that the situation threw ES into paralysis from what was tweeted and reported. I would have thought that after the recent fire, they would have more resilience than seemingly was displayed today. Just putting out a message 'try another day' does not seem to cut the mustard does it?

 

[D1009]

Looking at RTT it looks as though some services eventually got through in the London direction but it seemed that the situation threw ES into paralysis from what was tweeted and reported. I would have thought that after the recent fire, they would have more resilience than seemingly was displayed today. Just putting out a message 'try another day' does not seem to cut the mustard does it?

Given the number of passengers with which they regularly deal, what are you suggesting they should have done, then?

 

[Hadders]

I would've thought more passengers travel from, say London-Manchester each day than London-Paris.

Agree it is a difficult one as there aren't any diversionary routes that the ES trains can use.

I suppose the only thing they can do is start/terminate at Ashford, with onward connections via the classic lines. How feasible that is firstly, with appropriate facilities at Ashford to handle the number of international passengers and secondly, is it possible (and how quickly can) classic line services be strengthened. Thirdly, this would depend there being sufficient ES stock on the right side of the incident.

 

[Bald Rick]

I would've thought more passengers travel from, say London-Manchester each day than London-Paris.

Undoubtedly more on London-Manchester trains than London-Paris trains. But on the former, many are bound for Stoke, Macc, Stockport etc, whereas on the latter almost everyone is going the distance. So probably not much in it.

 

[2R84]

I would've thought more passengers travel from, say London-Manchester each day than London-Paris.

I suppose the only thing they can do is start/terminate at Ashford, with onward connections via the classic lines. How feasible that is firstly, with appropriate facilities at Ashford to handle the number of international passengers and secondly, is it possible (and how quickly can) classic line services be strengthened. Thirdly, this would depend there being sufficient ES stock on the right side of the incident.

Very unlikely based on yesterday. It literally took hours to clear the two trains that terminated at Ashford. Firstly those that would pay for tickets left, followed by volunteers, followed by those that were detrained and joined a makeshift queuing system in the subway. All were cleared by about 4pm I think.


Bare in mind that a Eurostar train is massive - 750 Capacity

And you also have at least a 6 car 395 of passenger trying to transfer to the same 'classics' service - 352 Capacity

And at best these will be trying to transfer to:

SE Mainline: 12 car 375 - ~750 seats

Maidstone East line: 4 car 375 or networker - ~250-300 seats


I would think the border control and security facilities are nowhere near as extensive as those at St Pancras either, but this did not seem to cause too many issues yesterday.


Obviously yesterday was also a day when the lifts at Ashford were out of order, just to make it all easier!

 

[Adam0984]

Could the 395s be sent to London via the classic lines subject to both traction and route knowledge of the crew?

 

[notadriver]

Crews no longer have route knowledge for that.

 

[yorksrob]

Crews no longer have route knowledge for that.

Didn't they used to run a regular diagram up to Victoria for just this sort of eventuality ?

Perhaps it would be worth introducing a regular fast Saturday return service with them on the classic lines for route retention. That way, at least they could send them up the classic route during disruption, rather than having everyone squash onto an electrostar !

Personally I'd route it via Tonbridge as that route has been designed for express speeds and has the necessary loops at Headcorn, Paddock Wood, Tonbridge and Sevenoaks.

 

[Bald Rick]

Could the 395s be sent to London via the classic lines subject to both traction and route knowledge of the crew?

In this case - what would be the point? The line was shut between Ashford and Ebbsfleet, so the diversion would have been from Ashford, via Tonbridge and Sevenoaks to London. Ie following the classic service!

 

[yorksrob]

In this case - what would be the point? The line was shut between Ashford and Ebbsfleet, so the diversion would have been from Ashford, via Tonbridge and Sevenoaks to London. Ie following the classic service!

Presumably so that you don't have to squash everyone onto the classic service !

Plus, as mentioned, there are lots of overtaking points on that line.

 

[Bald Rick]

Presumably so that you don't have to squash everyone onto the classic service !

Plus, as mentioned, there are lots of overtaking points on that line.

The classic service is 8 car all day now, plenty of space off peak.

 

[yorksrob]

The classic service is 8 car all day now, plenty of space off peak.

Including the intending passengers, the passengers of a 395 and a Eurostar for good measure ?

 

[user15681]

There was a regular diagram, on Wednesdays, but was ceased in the December 2013 timetable change. I'm pretty sure I could count on one hand (two at most!) the number of times 395s have visited Victoria in service having been diverted from St Pancras - it happened so rarely I think it was decided it wasn't worth it.

If my memory is right, the last time one went anywhere near was 23rd December 2014, up to Swanley and back following an object-train collision at Higham (echoes of Monday morning). Prior to that, three railtours, and even prior to that... I can't recall, but that's the past year covered.

But this is straying off topic...

 

[TheJRB]

The classic service is 8 car all day now, plenty of space off peak.

Has that been altered recently then? I know most services between 09:35 and 14:05 ex-Ashford was scheduled to be 4 coaches in the Dec timetable (exceptions being 10:05 8 car, 12:05 3 car, 12:35 8 car and 13:35 8 car).

Certainly almost all 8 car at weekends though.

 

[Bald Rick]

Has that been altered recently then? I know most services between 09:35 and 14:05 ex-Ashford was scheduled to be 4 coaches in the Dec timetable (exceptions being 10:05 8 car, 12:05 3 car, 12:35 8 car and 13:35 8 car).

Certainly almost all 8 car at weekends though.

Not sure, I'll have to check, as I'm not on solid ground on this subject!

 

[Adam0984]

In this case - what would be the point? The line was shut between Ashford and Ebbsfleet, so the diversion would have been from Ashford, via Tonbridge and Sevenoaks to London. Ie following the classic service!

All I was saying is there's eurostars stuck at Ashford with people for London on plus the HS trains could they run into London to take they're own passengers plus some ES passengers that were detrained there instead of turn everything round and squish on the timetabled Classic line trains. I thought they may still have the route knowledge as they might drive classic line trains as well as the HS stuff.

 

[Antman]

In this case - what would be the point? The line was shut between Ashford and Ebbsfleet, so the diversion would have been from Ashford, via Tonbridge and Sevenoaks to London. Ie following the classic service!

Well surely any extra trains into London will be more than useful in the circumstances?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

HS1 lineside fencing is good, quality high fencing along the entire line and security patrols, but the incident occurred via a footbridge.

According to online reports it occured at a road bridge going under the line and investigations will be made as to how the victim got onto the line which as you say is surrounded by good quality high fencing.

The victim is a 37 year old local woman and the matter is not being treated as suspicious.

 

[2R84]

All I was saying is there's eurostars stuck at Ashford with people for London on plus the HS trains could they run into London to take they're own passengers plus some ES passengers that were detrained there instead of turn everything round and squish on the timetabled Classic line trains. I thought they may still have the route knowledge as they might drive classic line trains as well as the HS stuff.

I'm not sure there are the paths for extra trains, possibly via maidstone east I guess? However some creative shunting could result in everything going up being a 12 car, however this would probably disrupt not only the rest of the days service but the next days too as stock would be all over the place! I believe everyone was expecting the incident to be cleared a lot quicker than it was which was why further additional trains did not happen.

I didn't think 395 drivers drove anything else, but please correct me if I am wrong.