As Required turns for train drivers

[Athletic]

If the Resource Managers are constantly swapping a train driver's As Required shifts to their mates, is this acceptable? Surely the train driver who is constantly being favoured with As Required shifts is obtaining a pecuniary advantage and gaining hundreds of hours at home whilst the other train driver who is losing his As Required shifts is working hundreds of additional hours over a period of months and years. Could this be a type of fraud at work?

 

[manmikey]

At my TOC our "as ordered" turns are just another diagram along with spare and running turns. They are just part of your roster and there is no certainly no giving these turns to whomever the resource manager (?) decides to. Oh and they are not "stay at home" shifts (where did you get that idea from?) you sign on as per any other diagram and be ready to do whatever is required.

 

[Athletic]

At my TOC our "as ordered" turns are just another diagram along with spare and running turns. They are just part of your roster and there is no certainly no giving these turns to whomever the resource manager (?) decides to. Oh and they are not "stay at home" shifts (where did you get that idea from?) you sign on as per any other diagram and be ready to do whatever is required.

Not staying at home on an As Required turn, but the opportunity to go home 90 minutes before the end of your As Required turn, while the other driver is still out there driving trains. Resource Managers constantly changing As Required shifts on the IT system to favour their mates. Meaning other drivers are driving (working) trains constantly when it was their As Required shift.

 

[skyhigh]

What are you expecting us to do about it?

If you think it's wrong, speak to your union rep or raise a grievance.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

It is not fraud, by any measure.

At the end of the day, whilst there are union agreements/collective bargaining agreements - your employer only guarantees to pay you for the hours specified in your contract. They could give you all the really bad jobs if they wanted to, so long as it was in line with your contract. The fact that they don't work like this is because they want to maintain a good workforce and have negotiated with a union in good faith, but there is nothing fraudulent or illegal occuring if they ever did chose to make your work more demanding.

It is perfectly legal for them to have favourites etc - so long as they don't discriminate based on a protected characteristic (race, sex, disability etc).

 

[Athletic]

What are you expecting us to do about it?

If you think it's wrong, speak to your union rep or raise a grievance.

Raise a grievance? That's the kiss of death on the railway. Lol

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Aug 2024 ==

It is not fraud, by any measure.

At the end of the day, whilst there are union agreements/collective bargaining agreements - your employer only guarantees to pay you for the hours specified in your contract. They could give you all the really bad jobs if they wanted to, so long as it was in line with your contract. The fact that they don't work like this is because they want to maintain a good workforce and have negotiated with a union in good faith, but there is nothing fraudulent or illegal occuring if they ever did chose to make your work more demanding.

It is perfectly legal for them to have favourites etc - so long as they don't discriminate based on a protected characteristic (race, sex, disability etc).

And if the Resource Manager is systematically and methodically targeting a specific driver? Is this not considered as victimisation and possibly harassment?

 

[driverd]

Not staying at home on an As Required turn, but the opportunity to go home 90 minutes before the end of your As Required turn, while the other driver is still out there driving trains. Resource Managers constantly changing As Required shifts on the IT system to favour their mates. Meaning other drivers are driving (working) trains constantly when it was their As Required shift.

Without knowing the in's and out's, all I'd say is, it's easy to scrutinise rostering decisions from a distance, but, a few things to think about.

1. Do the drivers concerned sign all of the job they're being moved off?
2. Do these drivers have personal circumstances that may mean these changes have been authorised by management?
3. Do the drivers concerned sign all the traction on the jobs they're moved off?
4. Being spare/as required can be a poison chalice depending on your companies movement agreements. If you can be moved x hours before 24 hours notice, your 0500 spare can become an 0230 book on for a job - and that sure is a kick in the manhood.

 

[Athletic]

Without knowing the in's and out's, all I'd say is, it's easy to scrutinise rostering decisions from a distance, but, a few things to think about.

1. Do the drivers concerned sign all of the job they're being moved off?
2. Do these drivers have personal circumstances that may mean these changes have been authorised by management?
3. Do the drivers concerned sign all the traction on the jobs they're moved off?
4. Being spare/as required can be a poison chalice depending on your companies movement agreements. If you can be moved x hours before 24 hours notice, your 0500 spare can become an 0230 book on for a job - and that sure is a kick in the manhood.

This is a straight forward case of the Resource Managers ensuring that their friend(s) are in receipt of most of the As Required / Spare turns at the expense of other drivers who are being worked like dogs and are at a higher risk of having a Safety of the Line or Operational incident. Basically, the Resource Managers are protecting their mates and their getting a free ride.

 

[skyhigh]

So, again, what are you expecting us to do? What's the aim in posting here?

 

[LowLevel]

This is a straight forward case of the Resource Managers ensuring that their friend(s) are in receipt of most of the As Required / Spare turns at the expense of other drivers who are being worked like dogs and are at a higher risk of having a Safety of the Line or Operational incident. Basically, the Resource Managers are protecting their mates and their getting a free ride.

Can you prove that? I've heard plenty of similar moanings over the years about favouritism but none that have ever really been substantiated. Every action taken on these systems is time and date stamped so it is a brave person to mess about too much with it.

 

[driver9000]

If you are a Driver and believe something like that is going on within your depot or company raise it through your local reps and management. For example my TOC has a specific formula for allocation of work to Spare crews to ensure it's kept fair so check your T&C's. I'm afraid that complaining on a public forum won't get you the answer you want.

 

[manmikey]

Not staying at home on an As Required turn, but the opportunity to go home 90 minutes before the end of your As Required turn, while the other driver is still out there driving trains. Resource Managers constantly changing As Required shifts on the IT system to favour their mates. Meaning other drivers are driving (working) trains constantly when it was their As Required shift.

If the as ordered turn is part of your roster you can not be moved from that turn, you can volunteer to move from it if asked but you can not affect a third party in doing so. The resource manager simply can not swap shifts around as you suggest.... certainly not iny TOC.

 

[westcoaster]

This is a straight forward case of the Resource Managers ensuring that their friend(s) are in receipt of most of the As Required / Spare turns at the expense of other drivers who are being worked like dogs and are at a higher risk of having a Safety of the Line or Operational incident. Basically, the Resource Managers are protecting their mates and their getting a free ride.

Is rostering not done by a team away from the depot?
Is the junior driver first to receive work as per your depot minutes?
Who is closer to the job?
Is it a weeks work being given or individual days.
All things you need to consider, and have set in concrete before going forward.

Also more than likely more tham one Resource manager, why not challenge the RM and ask why this is being rostered in such a fashion. I'm sure if your depot minute's are being abused there will be a reporting system in place or take your concerns to the union.

 

[Athletic]

Can you prove that? I've heard plenty of similar moanings over the years about favouritism but none that have ever really been substantiated. Every action taken on these systems is time and date stamped so it is a brave person to mess about too much with it.

Yes, daily diagrams kept and cross referenced with master rosta and weekly sheets, booking-on sheet is an official document that has signatures confirming the duties a driver is given, etc. It's all written down in black and white. Plus IT systems leave an electronic footprint. This is fact and not fiction.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==

Is rostering not done by a team away from the depot?
Is the junior driver first to receive work as per your depot minutes?
Who is closer to the job?
Is it a weeks work being given or individual days.
All things you need to consider, and have set in concrete before going forward.

Also more than likely more tham one Resource manager, why not challenge the RM and ask why this is being rostered in such a fashion. I'm sure if your depot minute's are being abused there will be a reporting system in place or take your concerns to the union

Is rostering not done by a team away from the depot?
Is the junior driver first to receive work as per your depot minutes?
Who is closer to the job?
Is it a weeks work being given or individual days.
All things you need to consider, and have set in concrete before going forward.

Also more than likely more tham one Resource manager, why not challenge the RM and ask why this is being rostered in such a fashion. I'm sure if your depot minute's are being abused there will be a reporting system in place or take your concerns to the union.

A team of rosta clerks issue the weekly, but before it is published via email it goes to the Resource Managers at local level who start altering the As Required turns, adding or deleting work to diagrams almost always to favour their mates. The weekly rosta is then published via email by the Resource Managers.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Aug 2024 ==

If the as ordered turn is part of your roster you can not be moved from that turn, you can volunteer to move from it if asked but you can not affect a third party in doing so. The resource manager simply can not swap shifts around as you suggest.... certainly not iny TOC.

It certainly is happening at my depot and on an industrial scale. It's a disgrace that these corrupt practices are still happening in 2024, where certain drivers are always out driving while the usual drivers are upstairs watching the tv and clock watching.

 

[Bluejays]

There are generally rostering agreements with some pretty set rules, so hard to see how or why people would be continually going against them.

But if they are, then as others have said, really it's a case of collect evidence and go to union rep/line manager.

I struggle with the idea it could be fraud, you're still being paid for hours worked!

 

[transportphoto]

I think we’ve offered appropriate advice to the OP. Thanks all.