Arwyn Thomas Wins Tribunal

[AlterEgo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13879563

I'm not a union member, but good for him, and for the union for fighting his corner.

Wonder what LU's response will be.

 

[j0hn0]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13879563

I'm not a union member, but good for him, and for the union for fighting his corner.

Wonder what LU's response will be.

the truth is that we don't fully know the circumstances behind this, but I don't think it's surprising that now we have a conservative government again, strike action has exploded.

I don't see that as a coincidence and I deplore the power they have to bring the country to its knees just because 1 person was "unfairly dismissed".

Sure I've been unfairly dismissed myself, did I p155 and moan and bring the country to it's knees? no, I got on with my life and found another job.

Why would anyone want to work somewhere that doesn't want him? Oh that's right, he'd be unemployable anywhere else

 

[12CSVT]

Totally agree with AlterEgo on this. The onus is now firmly on LU to comply with the ruling of the industrial tribunal.

 

[Smudger105e]

I don't think it's surprising that now we have a conservative government again, strike action has exploded.

That is because the Conservative Government is throwing its weight around and making cuts that affect the poorer in society, and backing employers who are making chages to T&C of employment with no regard for the rights of the employees.

The Tories do not give a damn about the man in the street IMHO, you only matter if you have money. A leopard never changes its spots.

 

[SS4]

the truth is that we don't fully know the circumstances behind this, but I don't think it's surprising that now we have a conservative government again, strike action has exploded.

The Conservatives want to make the public sector pay banker debt - of course there are going to be more strikes! Scorn and hatred should be reserved to the Lib Dems for essentially committing suicide for a taste of power.

I don't see that as a coincidence and I deplore the power they have to bring the country to its knees just because 1 person was "unfairly dismissed".

The UK is not London. RMT industrial action is usually localised anyway. It happens he was in a union willing to fight instead of roll over and die which is what Cameron wants with the 50% turnout law on striking (when his party got nowhere near 50% of the votes cast. Hypocrisy +1). The unions will always be more democratic than government until PR is introduced.

Sure I've been unfairly dismissed myself, did I p155 and moan and bring the country to it's knees? no, I got on with my life and found another job.

Were you a union member? If so, which union? It would appear you've fallen to right-wing propaganda about unions having nothing better to do than strike over the quality of the biscuits in the staff room

Why would anyone want to work somewhere that doesn't want him? Oh that's right, he'd be unemployable anywhere else

Given the scarcity of jobs (cheers Osborne ) it's sadly true.

Like it or not an independent tribunal decided that he was unfairly dismissed and now LU have to reinstate him or find another job equally well paid. The union has enabled him to stand up to his employer when he was in the right, could he have done that on his own? If the answer is no then the unions' existence is justified.
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That is because the Conservative Government is throwing its weight around and making cuts that affect the poorer in society, and backing employers who are making chages to T&C of employment with no regard for the rights of the employees.

The Tories do not give a damn about the man in the street IMHO, you only matter if you have money. A leopard never changes its spots.

A round of applause for that man/woman. The two most powerful men in our country are David Cameron and Richard Murdoch - sad times indeed (but at least the former supports a good football team )

 

[Mojo]

Totally agree with AlterEgo on this. The onus is now firmly on LU to comply with the ruling of the industrial tribunal.

There is nothing to comply with yet, the date of the remedies hearing has not been set yet.

The actual outcome of the tribunal is far from that stated by the RMT. The tribunal did not find that he was dismissed due to his TU activities and there was 50% contributory fault, that he was not considered to be a credible witness to the tribunal and that LUL were entitled to discipline him for his actions, but the sanction was considered too harsh given the circumstances.

The subject of this thread is slightly misleading, as he did not win at the tribunal. The headline of the BBC story gives a better representation of the judgment.

Like it or not an independent tribunal decided that he was unfairly dismissed and now LU have to reinstate him or find another job equally well paid.

No they don't. They have to answer at the remedies hearing where it will be decided.

 

[jon0844]

Why did the RMT call strike action and Bob Crow was on TV (I saw him myself) asking when anyone ever took notice of a tribunal? He said it was pointless, yet the tribunal has said it was too severe and he will be re-instated, albeit in a different job.

So, Bob Crow was wrong and now if he ever asks again, this can be used as an example of how a tribunal is a fair way to deal with things, not strike action.

 

[Greenback]

A tribunal is the ebst way to deal with these sort of issues, but they don't always get it right. hence the existence of the Employment Appeal Tribunal!

 

[jon0844]

Surely Bob Crow did know this (he may be militant, but I doubt he's an idiot), so why did he take this action? The first strike seemed rather pointless too - given it was only six hours long and at an odd time.

If both sides accept the outcome of a tribunal, or any subsequent appeal, then why take any action - just let the tribunal step in and make its decision. In this case, he didn't walk away squeaky clean anyway.

 

[Greenback]

Bob clearly wanted the person to be reinstated pending the outcome - LU were just as adamant that the dismissal should stand unless the tribunal ruled otherwise.

 

[Mojo]

Mr Thomas will not return to his previous role but has been re employed in a non operational role with no customer facing duties, and 6 months leave with no pay.

The RMT have ended all industrial action on this dispute and future cases will follow the normal process, right up to Acas before a ballot is called.

 

[jon0844]

Bob clearly wanted the person to be reinstated pending the outcome - LU were just as adamant that the dismissal should stand unless the tribunal ruled otherwise.

That's why I don't think there needed to be a strike. Have a tribunal and then respect the decision - so it's neither management or the union 'winning'.

It seems like the outcome was as you'd expect and hope from a tribunal, so I hope Bob Crow will change his mind and stop saying they're useless.

 

[Greenback]

That's why I don't think there needed to be a strike. Have a tribunal and then respect the decision - so it's neither management or the union 'winning'.

It seems like the outcome was as you'd expect and hope from a tribunal, so I hope Bob Crow will change his mind and stop saying they're useless.

I haven't read the full decision (is it available anywhere?), but often in cases like this one neither side is vindicated completely, and neither side is ecstatic at the result. Often neither side will want to appeal and incur further costs and hassle, but the facts appear to be that LU was found to have dismissed the drive run fairly, yet he has not got his driving job back.

The most sensible thing would be for all parties to draw a line under it and move on. But since when has anything been sensible on the railway or underground?

As to the strike, well I can see that it would be a tactic to try and pressure LU into reinstatement pending the tribunal decision, but I can also see why it was never likely to work, so therefore it does seem pretty pointless in that respect. It does, however, provide an opportunity for union members to show solidarity with a colleague. It cna help bullying management think twice before dismissing someone on shaky grounds or flimsy evidence. (Not that I am sating that happened in this instance).

 

[swt_passenger]

TfL's latest announcement suggests they've got RMT to agree that they won't even have a ballot until after a tribunal has happened in future.

The RMT leadership agree that any future individual cases will follow the normal processes for resolving individual disputes, all of which will be exhausted up to ACAS level in advance of any ballot for industrial action being called...

From this: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/media/newscentre/20360.aspx