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Arthur Scargill Was Right ?
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Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
He was outflanked in his modus operandi as the NUM had been infiltrated by MI5 who passed on their information to enable the PR strategy of the Government to utilise his particular naive methods of communication to be belittled and ridiculed.
Masbroughlad
Established Member
It all stinks!
Baxenden Bank
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No, there was no list of pits to be closed, the papers make that quite clear. They also make clear that each pit would be considered individually.
There was, however, a clear strategy to reduce the number of pits (and lots of them) and the paperwork put a number on that for the following three years.
PLEASE NOTE I am not supporting the process used or the decisions taken - merely answering the question posed.
Just like ORR / NR saying 'we will make £x efficiences over the next control period' without them having a full list of exactly which efficiences, where, when and by how much.
PS I did like, in the miners strike, how the flying pickets arrived at Rose Grove where the colliery had already been closed for years!
There was, however, a clear strategy to reduce the number of pits (and lots of them) and the paperwork put a number on that for the following three years.
PLEASE NOTE I am not supporting the process used or the decisions taken - merely answering the question posed.
Just like ORR / NR saying 'we will make £x efficiences over the next control period' without them having a full list of exactly which efficiences, where, when and by how much.
PS I did like, in the miners strike, how the flying pickets arrived at Rose Grove where the colliery had already been closed for years!
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Masbroughlad
Established Member
Putting economics to one side (if there were any REAL ones). It ripped the heart and soul out of my home county of South Yorkshire.
Should we therefore take it that you believe that no pits needed to close? Even those that were uneconomic and were never going to be economic?
Masbroughlad
Established Member
ainsworth74:1668984 said:
I should have put a question mark. The industry needed modernising - both 'sides' could have done things differently.
In that case it seems we broadly agree 
My feeling on the whole sorry mess has always been that both sides got things wrong and need to shoulder responsibility for what followed.
My feeling on the whole sorry mess has always been that both sides got things wrong and need to shoulder responsibility for what followed.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Like with the railways fiftyish years ago, there were clearly some rationalisation/ savings that could have been made.
But instead of an open Government review (like we had on the railways), things appear to have been done behind closed doors - planning to shut seventy five unspecified pits... I can see why Scargill called a strike.
But instead of an open Government review (like we had on the railways), things appear to have been done behind closed doors - planning to shut seventy five unspecified pits... I can see why Scargill called a strike.
I think Baxenden Bank is right - 20 pits in a year, 75 in three is not that big a difference, and in terms of the number of pits and workers then active is not even that great.
What I do think is the greater tragedy is that so little has actually been achieved in some areas in the way of regeneration. There has been money pumped in, but a combination of inefficiency (and worse) by local authorities and intransigence by the communities has severely reduced its effectiveness. I'm sorry, but these have not been "mining communities" for 25 years, and behaving as if the vampire Thatcher is still stamping on their neck from beyond the grave helps no one.
What I do think is the greater tragedy is that so little has actually been achieved in some areas in the way of regeneration. There has been money pumped in, but a combination of inefficiency (and worse) by local authorities and intransigence by the communities has severely reduced its effectiveness. I'm sorry, but these have not been "mining communities" for 25 years, and behaving as if the vampire Thatcher is still stamping on their neck from beyond the grave helps no one.
Amberley54
Member
I was twice stopped by police (from the Hampshire and Thames Valley forces) riding my motor bike in Derbyshire during the pit strike and was roughed up and searched. But the stupid buggers hadn't quite got their stool pigeons information right as I was on the way back over the Pennines after delivering bags of cash donated by trade unionists to the local strike committees and only had about thirty bob on me. Still makes me smile.
Thatcher was dismissive of the real costs to the communities she destroyed as they were labour strongholds, and one day the true extent of her abuse of power and the lies that were lapped-up and printed by her friends in the press shall be revealed as such as the truth is now starting to leak out.
Also, the facts of what really happened at Orgreave will also be revealed. Pity we didn't have mobile phone cameras in them days to record the organised brutal beatings dished out by the police to many people that day. I was charged with damaging a policeman's boot but the magistrate had the courage to laugh the charge out of court when he saw my broken nose and black eye and chose to believe me rather than the copper whose boot I allegedly had damaged.
Thatcher was dismissive of the real costs to the communities she destroyed as they were labour strongholds, and one day the true extent of her abuse of power and the lies that were lapped-up and printed by her friends in the press shall be revealed as such as the truth is now starting to leak out.
Also, the facts of what really happened at Orgreave will also be revealed. Pity we didn't have mobile phone cameras in them days to record the organised brutal beatings dished out by the police to many people that day. I was charged with damaging a policeman's boot but the magistrate had the courage to laugh the charge out of court when he saw my broken nose and black eye and chose to believe me rather than the copper whose boot I allegedly had damaged.
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Bevan Price
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In my opinion, Scargill & Thatcher were two of a kind. Stubborn, pig-headed, rather arrogant, and refusing to accept that sometimes they might be wrong, and somebody else was right.
Scargill seemingly thought that the miners were indispensible and the government would eventually have to meet the miners demands. He failed to realise that, given previous history between Tory governments & miners, he would never be allowed to win - regardless of the cost to the miners / country, etc. Indeed, he probably helped to accelerate the closures that he was trying to stop.
(A lesson that some other TU leaders would do well to heed.......)
Scargill seemingly thought that the miners were indispensible and the government would eventually have to meet the miners demands. He failed to realise that, given previous history between Tory governments & miners, he would never be allowed to win - regardless of the cost to the miners / country, etc. Indeed, he probably helped to accelerate the closures that he was trying to stop.
(A lesson that some other TU leaders would do well to heed.......)
An "open review" maybe, but still a fait accomplis served up to the public with little room for negotiation.
DaveNewcastle
Established Member
The NUM and its Mr Scargill became a client of mine towards the end of that whole sorry conflict, and so I shouldn't comment, but I tend to agree with :
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