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Arriva's revamped website

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daodao

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I get why printed leaflets have gone, but I don't get why the properly prepared PDFs have gone. Designing a timetable that is actually readable needs some human interaction.

As for Arriva's method of generating a PDF automatically, there's a wonderful example of the gibberish it produces on the 1 Blyth-Ashington route. Just look at the state of that PDF that I've attached and weep. Each version of the route is listed separately; the buses to Ashington, the buses to the hospital, and the buses to Widdrington are listed in separate sections, even though they are variations of the same route. You open the PDF and it looks like there is one bus a day from Blyth to Ashington at 1818, it runs "MOnday to Sunday" but then the footnote says "only during Bank Holidays". So instead of one bus a day, the first page makes it look like you have eight buses a year. And then you get gibberish like the attached screenshot, which shows that buses from Wansbeck Hospital to Blyth are at 0905, 0925, 1005 and 0945, with that pattern repeated for the day. Aye, right you are.

Who on earth looked at this website, thought it was good enough to be released into the wild, and signed it off as complete?
For curiosity, I have just looked at the Arriva website for the towns that they serve (Altrincham/Crewe/Macclesfield) that I know best. Superficially, the site looks user friendly, but the pdf timetables are very confusing.

The timetable for route 6 shows both the regular service from Leighton Hospital to Shavington and the completely separate circular service from Macclesfield to Broken Cross (1 early morning and 1 early evening journey only) in the same table!! The timetables for routes 21 and 21A (Macclesfield to Hurdsfield circular) and shown completely separately, and while the route plan with these timetables is correct, the route on the Cheshire area map shows the service incorrectly running via Churchill Way in Macclesfield.

Overall, the website seems confusing, is incorrect in places, mixes up separate services and does not show the complete service for a route where some journeys have a different number or have a letter suffix.
 
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Smethwickian

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It's utterly baffling why so many bus companies make it so hard to get hold of one of the most basic, essential pieces of information on what their business is all about - namely, a simple, readable bus timetable.
Would a takeaway food business survive by displaying or offering only illegible menus? Would a clothes shop survive if it removed all its size labels? I'm struggling to think of sensible comparisons because frankly I find the whole idea of obscuring, or not bothering about, published public transport schedules quite incomprehensible.
No other business would behave like this.
 

Baxenden Bank

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It's utterly baffling why so many bus companies make it so hard to get hold of one of the most basic, essential pieces of information on what their business is all about - namely, a simple, readable bus timetable.
Would a takeaway food business survive by displaying or offering only illegible menus? Would a clothes shop survive if it removed all its size labels? I'm struggling to think of sensible comparisons because frankly I find the whole idea of obscuring, or not bothering about, published public transport schedules quite incomprehensible.
No other business would behave like this.
Not an illegible menu in the takeaway, no menu at all. You play 'guess what they may sell' and the staff reply 'yes' or 'no' until you get it right. A bit like an old fashioned shop where they served you, but with the shelves turned round facing away from the customer so, again you have to guess.

Transport for Wales seem to be heading in the same direction, "oh look at our lovely app, isn't it fantastic".
 

markymark2000

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It's utterly baffling why so many bus companies make it so hard to get hold of one of the most basic, essential pieces of information on what their business is all about - namely, a simple, readable bus timetable.
Would a takeaway food business survive by displaying or offering only illegible menus? Would a clothes shop survive if it removed all its size labels? I'm struggling to think of sensible comparisons because frankly I find the whole idea of obscuring, or not bothering about, published public transport schedules quite incomprehensible.
No other business would behave like this.
An airline offering mystery flights with no accomodation included?
 

Baxenden Bank

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I attach a copy of my local Arriva route, downloaded from the new website. It lists Monday to Saturday journeys - in both directions, then Monday to Friday journeys - in both directions, then Saturday journeys - in both directions. How useful.

I contacted Arriva and received a response along the lines of 'we are sorry that the revised bus times are not convenient, we can't always please everybody' as though I had complained about a revised timetable being introduced rather than their website producing unusable rubbish.
 

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  • 164 from Market Drayton Bus Station to Hanley Bus Station.pdf
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py_megapixel

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I attach a copy of my local Arriva route, downloaded from the new website. It lists Monday to Saturday journeys - in both directions, then Monday to Friday journeys - in both directions, then Saturday journeys - in both directions. How useful.

I contacted Arriva and received a response along the lines of 'we are sorry that the revised bus times are not convenient, we can't always please everybody' as though I had complained about a revised timetable being introduced rather than their website producing unusable rubbish.
Sounds great...it's almost as if Arriva would rather people didn't use the bus.
I wouldn't blame someone, after seeing that, to just decide to jump in their car instead.
 

NorthOxonian

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I attach a copy of my local Arriva route, downloaded from the new website. It lists Monday to Saturday journeys - in both directions, then Monday to Friday journeys - in both directions, then Saturday journeys - in both directions. How useful.

I contacted Arriva and received a response along the lines of 'we are sorry that the revised bus times are not convenient, we can't always please everybody' as though I had complained about a revised timetable being introduced rather than their website producing unusable rubbish.

Also (and it's just a little thing specific to that route and only a few others), that timetable doesn't indicate the connection onto service 64 for Shrewsbury - I'm positive that the old timetable did show this.
 

Baxenden Bank

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Also (and it's just a little thing specific to that route and only a few others), that timetable doesn't indicate the connection onto service 64 for Shrewsbury - I'm positive that the old timetable did show this.
I think the downloaded pdf's did not, certainly through COVID reductions they were showing an hourly service Shrewsbury to Market Drayton, and separately a two-hourly service Market Drayton to Hanley.

The journey planner does recognise the through journey though. The problem with those 'driving hours' connections is that a journey planner will need to know that it is really a through journey, otherwise they will introduce a long gap between hourly services at Market Drayton.
 

Llandudno

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Yep, loads of journeys missing on the Arriva Buses Wales website, or journeys shown in a jumbled up order.
A non regular bus user would have no chance of finding out times of buses.

Unfortunately the Conwy County Council website which normally shows proper timetables is only showing a link to, you guessed it, the Arriva website.

The marketing of Arriva bus services in Wales is duly awful in normal times, but with all the recent Covid changes it is more important than ever to have correct, up to date information. You really do wonder why Arriva don’t sell up in north Wales as they don’t seem really interested in promoting their network.
I think there marketing dept for Wales is based in Luton...!
 

Baxenden Bank

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Yep, loads of journeys missing on the Arriva Buses Wales website, or journeys shown in a jumbled up order.
A non regular bus user would have no chance of finding out times of buses.

Unfortunately the Conwy County Council website which normally shows proper timetables is only showing a link to, you guessed it, the Arriva website.

The marketing of Arriva bus services in Wales is duly awful in normal times, but with all the recent Covid changes it is more important than ever to have correct, up to date information. You really do wonder why Arriva don’t sell up in north Wales as they don’t seem really interested in promoting their network.
I think there marketing dept for Wales is based in Luton...!
As are the Midlands people, at least the address on the email response is Luton.

I guess, in general, the people in charge of the website, app and marketing never travel by bus, so they don't think it is important.
 

markymark2000

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Yep, loads of journeys missing on the Arriva Buses Wales website, or journeys shown in a jumbled up order.
A non regular bus user would have no chance of finding out times of buses.

Unfortunately the Conwy County Council website which normally shows proper timetables is only showing a link to, you guessed it, the Arriva website.

The marketing of Arriva bus services in Wales is duly awful in normal times, but with all the recent Covid changes it is more important than ever to have correct, up to date information. You really do wonder why Arriva don’t sell up in north Wales as they don’t seem really interested in promoting their network.
I think there marketing dept for Wales is based in Luton...!
I've said millions of times before, Arriva don't care about Wales. You only have to look at the cuts to services and how little they care about posting diversions and route change updates etc. The day they sell up, I think I will plan a party. The down side is that buses in Wales don't make much money and Arriva won't sell up cheaply so it would take too long for anyone to get their investment back. There are also too few people with the money to do such a thing as Wales, especially North Wales is full of smalish independants who, if it wasn't for tenders, they wouldn't have any work.



As are the Midlands people, at least the address on the email response is Luton.

I guess, in general, the people in charge of the website, app and marketing never travel by bus, so they don't think it is important.
Luton is where customer service for ALL Arriva Bus areas (Not sure on London) is controlled. Social media is also based there.
 

MotCO

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I attach a copy of my local Arriva route, downloaded from the new website. It lists Monday to Saturday journeys - in both directions, then Monday to Friday journeys - in both directions, then Saturday journeys - in both directions. How useful.

I contacted Arriva and received a response along the lines of 'we are sorry that the revised bus times are not convenient, we can't always please everybody' as though I had complained about a revised timetable being introduced rather than their website producing unusable rubbish.

Alongside the awful sequencing (why can't they just head the columns 'Not Saturday' etc. (1)), some journeys seem to enter a time-warp. The Saturday 164 leaving Hanley at 17.15, arrives at Westlands Seabridge Road at 17.32, Westlands No. 60 at 17.32 and Westlands Sneyd Avenue also at 17.32. This is not the only example.

(1). Bizzarely, the Monday to Friday bus from Market Drayton at 09.11 has two columns - one for term time, and one for School Holidays so it can be done. However, the times for both buses are exactly the same throughout!
 

Andy Pacer

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It seems to think its helpful by showing all the trips that run Mon to Sat followed by those that only run Mon to Fri and then those that only run on Sat.
In the olden days the Timetables used to show 'S' and 'NS' to demonstrate this!
 

RELL6L

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I've said millions of times before, Arriva don't care about Wales. You only have to look at the cuts to services and how little they care about posting diversions and route change updates etc. The day they sell up, I think I will plan a party. The down side is that buses in Wales don't make much money and Arriva won't sell up cheaply so it would take too long for anyone to get their investment back. There are also too few people with the money to do such a thing as Wales, especially North Wales is full of smalish independants who, if it wasn't for tenders, they wouldn't have any work.




Luton is where customer service for ALL Arriva Bus areas (Not sure on London) is controlled. Social media is also based there.
There is certainly strong evidence that Arriva don't care about Wales. It is very difficult to work out what is going on there and what is happening is not all designed to please the passenger! I have looked at various sources to try and piece things together. Both Gwynedd and Denbighshire council websites have been kept up to date and Anglesey's now shows September changes.

Some good news from Rhyl - the 12 to Llandudno is back to the full 15 minute service. The 51/X51 to Denbigh is half hourly (was every 20 minutes) and it is running through to Wrexham every hour, clearly all using deckers. But the 11 to Chester is only hourly, as against the normal half hourly. Local routes in and around Rhyl look fairly back to normal, as is the 40-minutely 13 from Prestatyn to Llandudno.

Arriva's website remains utterly hopeless and the format is just diabolical. They frankly do not deserve to be in business for the state of this site. Under Help there is a Coronavirus timetable information page which does give some broad guidance on frequencies. In the Rhyl area these all seem to agree. And looking at the map on Bustimes backs up all this information. (Bustimes actual timetables are well out of date for all the routes I am talking about in this post, so is Traveline Wales).

Moving west to Gwynedd we get some real oddities. Starting with the 5/5C/5D. The Arriva website's coronavirus information page describes this as every 20 minutes. And glancing at the Gwynedd website's timetable would confirm this, with the 5C from Bangor to Caernarfon and the 5/5D to Llandudno, two 5s and one 5D per hour. Until you look closely. With a round trip of 3 hours 40 minutes a bus every 20 minutes would have 11 boards. But actually two are missing. There are gaps, from Caernarfon there are no buses at 8.10, 9.30, 11.50, 13.10, 15.30, 16.50, which is utterly bizarre. Looking on Bustimes showing the positions of actual vehicles would confirm this is what is being run on the ground. Why would they do this? So the hourly 5D has random 2 hourly gaps, it is totally senseless.

Arriva seem to have given up running the 3 between Porthmadog and Pwllheli, but are running one bus on the 3B section between Pwllheli and Blaenau Ffestiniog at a rather random frequency of up to every 70 minutes but with gaps. No attempt to connect with the Caelloi service on the western part. It would seem the outstation at Pwllheli has closed as a different bus comes down from Bangor each day.

On Anglesey the 4H/4R/X4 as it seems to be now to Holyhead is back to hourly, the previous service having been half hourly, this is consistent between all sources (but Arriva's own website has only just changed). So to the 62 to Amlwch. The Arriva coronovirus help page describes this as every 45 minutes. The Anglesey website now gives us a timetable showing this. Arriva's own website though still shows it as two hourly, with a complete mess as some journeys are the same as Sundays, some are not (even if they are). And for some reason Bustimes simply does not show any vehicles on the 62 at all - the map for northern Anglesey shows no buses. I can't tell whether the 45 minute frequency is actually running, but it would seem rather odd to be doing this.

Conwy council do not give anything much helpful, they just lead us to the Arriva website. Looking at one more pair of routes, the 14/15 from Conwy to Colwyn Bay, the Arriva website is the only source. The coronavirus help page describes this as irregular. Looking closely at the Arriva website timetable, by combining the two routes shown separately of course, shows a roughly half hourly service - with a 2hr 30min round trip time you would expect 5 boards - but one is missing. So there are four buses at 30 minute intervals then a 60 minute gap, throughout the day. Again Bustimes vehicles on the ground appears to back this up.

If you wanted to attract passengers then you would run services on a sensible frequency, not with these gaps. And you would let people know when they were running. I have lost words to describe how bad Arriva's own website is. And its not just the timetable format, the latest news gives some details of Yorkshire's service changes at the end of August - but absolutely nothing for any other region. Arriva clearly don't care.
 

Llandudno

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In Wales the awful, difficult to remember frequencies, 40 and 70 minute headways on some key routes is ridiculous, coupled with incomprehensible timetable ‘information’ on their website is driving potential passengers away.

They will then cite reduced patronage as a reason to cut frequencies and routes still further.

Why don’t they pack up and hand the keys to someone else?

Howabout Transdev/TrentBarton/Goahead or even Stagecoach!
 

cnjb8

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In Wales the awful, difficult to remember frequencies, 40 and 70 minute headways on some key routes is ridiculous, coupled with incomprehensible timetable ‘information’ on their website is driving potential passengers away.

They will then cite reduced patronage as a reason to cut frequencies and routes still further.

Why don’t they pack up and hand the keys to someone else?

Howabout Transdev/TrentBarton/Goahead or even Stagecoach!
Trent Barton definitely wouldn't expand to Wales, bear in mind the Trent bit stands for the river through the Midlands while Barton used to be an operator in Nottingham
 

carlberry

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Trent Barton definitely wouldn't expand to Wales, bear in mind the Trent bit stands for the river through the Midlands while Barton used to be an operator in Nottingham
That should mean everybody is safe from Deutsche Bahn taking over UK companies and Stagecoach running buses!
 

Robertj21a

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Trent Barton definitely wouldn't expand to Wales, bear in mind the Trent bit stands for the river through the Midlands while Barton used to be an operator in Nottingham

Trent and Barton are simply part of the Wellglade group. They could, in theory, operate wherever they want - but I doubt if Wales post-Arriva is a very attractive option for them.
 

Simon75

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When I downloaded the 38 Crewe to Macclesfield, it created a pdf of 5 pages of EVERY stop between the two towns
 

Llandudno

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I intended to watch an FA Cup match last Tuesday evening, Quorn v Matlock 7.45pm kick off

I prefer to use public transport so that I can have a pint or two before or after the match, or in the case of non-league football you can even have a pint during the match!

I looked at the Arriva website for bus times after the match from Quorn back to Loughborough to catch a late night train north bound. I couldnt make head or tail of the Arriva website, despite being involved in public transport in various guises for 40 years, so six days before the match I tweeted Arriva Midlands East asking for details of buses from Quorn back to Loughborough after 2130.

Five days later, ie one day before the match they responded and asked me for the route number, I replied that I didn’t know which was why I was asking you!

On the Wednesday, one day after the game they told me the route number and times of the buses!

So what I was a routine timetable enquiry took 8 days to get the answer.

FYI Quorn 0, Matlock 2
 

Statto

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There's still no 1A Blacon Circular timetable loaded on the Arriva site either, Arriva only have the 1 Blacon Circular timetable up.
 

Llandudno

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Considered using the No 5 last night from Conwy to Llandudno, couldn’t find any evidence of it on the Arriva website so my wife drove instead.

Two return tickets, £12 revenue lost.

Restaurant in Conwy lost out, as wife drank a bottle of water instead of a bottle of wine!

I think I caught sight of a bus, but had no idea what the times were.
No doubt will be withdrawn soon, citing lack of patronage....?
 

markymark2000

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Considered using the No 5 last night from Conwy to Llandudno, couldn’t find any evidence of it on the Arriva website so my wife drove instead.

Two return tickets, £12 revenue lost.

Restaurant in Conwy lost out, as wife drank a bottle of water instead of a bottle of wine!

I think I caught sight of a bus, but had no idea what the times were.
No doubt will be withdrawn soon, citing lack of patronage....?
Don't tempt Arriva Wales. They will do it. Haha
 

py_megapixel

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Don't tempt Arriva Wales. They will do it. Haha
That could probably apply to just about any Arriva subsidiary to be honest.

Their business model seems to be to do things as cheaply as possible while still offering poor value for money for the passenger. They are the buses as I believe they were thought of under Thatcher when cars were considered the gold-standard mode of transport - the ones you only use if you have no alternative.
 

Llandudno

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Not sure you can blame Thatcher for the ineptitude of Arriva though.

Lots of good private operators running quality vehicles, good marketing etc:
Transdev
Brighton & Hove
Blackpool
Nottingham
TrentBarton
GAG
Even Stagecoach aren’t bad in many areas of the country!
 

py_megapixel

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Not sure you can blame Thatcher for the ineptitude of Arriva though.
Sorry, that wasn't my implication. I was just providing an example of the kind of ideology that I meant.

There are plenty of things that one can blame Thatcher for, but most of those are probably poorly suited to this thread.
 

K219UHA

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There is certainly strong evidence that Arriva don't care about Wales.

Have to agree the latest Arriva website update is a bit iffy in places trying to use, the older one seemed to be more user friendly and reliable for timetables. And as for the updated Arriva App, very shocking from what I have used of it, perhaps it will grow on me over time, the older Arriva Live Map is by far much more useful and reliable. BusTimes are indeed showing the incorrect Welsh timetables from pre September changes. The Midlands stuff on the border for my hometown depot Oswestry is in fairness reliable on both counts and consistent from what I have seen.

I have been up the coast a number of times in recent weeks, camera been aimed at the 13 and 51/X51 and have even travelled last Saturday from Wrexham on the X51, 13 to Llandudno and back. Numbers on these services are coming back thankfully, the 12 since the near return of the normal timetable is looking better. I would say the X51 is suffering with the loss of some evening services. As for Sunday provision the X51 is at the moment missing in action, the 13 is very poor compared to the pre covid Sunday service, i.e at the moment two buses running, a hour apart over the day and huge gaps over the day between the cycles, previously mostly hourly on a Sunday. Weekday and Saturday the 35/36 circulars are running a hourly in each direction or a 30 minutes service combined and not the normal 30 minutes or 15 combined.

The Pwllheli outstation is indeed suspended and on a shorter 3B is operated, oddly the Sunday 3 Pwllheli to Porthmadog is operating with the normal timetable.
 

overthewater

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The problem you have is could any new owners make a better job of it? How does Arriva UK match up to other parts of the Arriva network in the EU?
 

Mal

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I've just had a look at the Arriva website and gone into the News section. What I noticed is that all news of every part of the Arriva empire is there so you'll find everything from a diversion in Darlington to new timetables for Wales and bridge closures in Kent. Absolutely useless!
When you eventually manage to find the region you want, if there are changes in
(for example, Selby) it just lists the services which you have to open up to find what has changed. Why not say 'There are new services and some services withdrawn. Details and timetables are shown below.'? Oh hang on, that's too simple and folk might understand what is going on and might actually want to use the bus services.
Verdict; not impressed and on a scale of 1 for poor and 10 for excellent. I'd give it -5 (minus 5!) It's useless, pathetic and an exercise in how to dissuade passengers from using Arriva buses. If Arriva actually paid consultants thousands of pounds for that excuse of a site, then they were robbed!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The problem you have is could any new owners make a better job of it?

Lothian took over the old failing First routes in East Lothian, they transformed them from losing money to making money and even provided Night buses. If the public are given a decent service with reliable buses and reasonable fares then they will use them.
 
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