Arriva Trains Wales' Request Stops

[Starmill]

Why do ATW not publish request stops in the way other TOCs do? Their station customer information systems don't make any reference to the fact that some stations are only made on request. I boarded at Fishguard Harbour the other day travelling to Milford Haven. The train was advertised on the board as normal, with the calling stations just listed as:

Fishguard and Goodwick
Clarbeston Road
Clunderwen
Whitland
and Carmarthen

Normally, I'd expect an "(x)" to be placed after Clarbeston Road and Clunderwen in that situation. The 'infotec' automatic announcements that sound like awful text-to-speech systems don't mention request stops either. If they were using the ATOS system they could have the warning added; "Please note that Clarbeston Road and Clunderwen are request stops, and passengers for these stations should ask the conductor on the train to arrange for the train to stop to allow them to alight." Even ATW's own version of this announcement didn't play, which goes something like "Some stations on this route are only made on request, please ensure the conductor knows where you wish to alight."

My theory on this is that on ATW the conductor has always been so proactive at checking where everyone wants to get off whenever I have been on them before (Heart of Wales, Pembroke Dock and Crewe - Shrewsbury) that they don't really think it matters. This was backed up when I asked the guard on the later Milford Haven train how we were supposed to know which stations are request stops from the screens. He said "Well it doesn't really matter does it? The conductor will know where you want to get off when they come to check your ticket, or they will ask you." Except in that case...

In the specific case of me missing Clarbeston Road the other day and having to go all the way to Carmarthen and back before getting to Milford Haven 2 hours late, why is an interchange station, where some trains actually terminate, still a request stop? Would there be any benefit in removing it's status as a request stop to help out Fishguard passengers a bit?

 

[northwichcat]

When the Mid-Cheshire line had request stops they were referred to as such at Piccadilly and Chester but not at Stockport, either on the screens or by the PA announcements. The Stockport screens also referred to Northern Trains for a long time instead of Northern Rail.

 

[swcovas]

Maybe I'm wrong but I feel sure that from my experiences of travelling on HOWL and West Wales trains announcements are always made regarding reques stops.

 

[theshillito]

After spending time bashing round Wales, I've started holding my arm out at non-request stops out of habit lately. On the plus side, this sometimes leads to an entertaining conversation with the guard, which is a nice change to just having my headphones on until I get off.

Back to the topic at hand, I think there must be an issue with the screens you mentioned, as whenever I've seen them they have, as you say, (x) next to request stops, with a note immediately following explaining so (at the very least this happens at Chester). The on-board announcements sometimes remember to announce request stops in addition to the "principal" stations too, but the guard will often make a manual announcement a few stops before (or pop his head in the carriage and yell).

As already mentioned though, the guard will check destinations on tickets, or ask where you're going if you have a rover (as happened to me). I'm quite surprised you missed out Clarbeston Road, perhaps the guards on that route are less proactive.

 

[Parallel]

Usually the station announcements do list request stops at ATW stations. The Cambrian lines announcement and the Heart Of Wales announcements always stick out in my mind. On most electronic display boards they don't have the (x) for some reason but most guards will come around checking tickets to find out where you're alighting on lines where request stops are coming up.

 

[krus_aragon]

Normally, I'd expect an "(x)" to be placed after Clarbeston Road and Clunderwen in that situation. The 'infotec' automatic announcements that sound like awful text-to-speech systems don't mention request stops either. If they were using the ATOS system they could have the warning added; "Please note that Clarbeston Road and Clunderwen are request stops, and passengers for these stations should ask the conductor on the train to arrange for the train to stop to allow them to alight." Even ATW's own version of this announcement didn't play, which goes something like "Some stations on this route are only made on request, please ensure the conductor knows where you wish to alight."

Arriva's normal automated station announcements list applicable request stops (I can vouch for Cardiff Central, Swansea, Ruabon and Colwyn Bay from memory). Might the fact that Fishguard Harbour is owned and operated by Stena Line offer some explanation for the variation?

 

[GarethJohn]

A busy Station with a 2 minute stop might not have time to announce each request stop. If a train is too busy for the guard to get down then a Driver will usually stop to be on the safe side with close

I wonder what the fare dodging estimates are for request stop stations? As getting the attention of staff is against their nature and awkward.

 

[merlodlliw]

When the Mid-Cheshire line had request stops they were referred to as such at Piccadilly and Chester but not at Stockport, either on the screens or by the PA announcements. The Stockport screens also referred to Northern Trains for a long time instead of Northern Rail.

I can only speak of stations on the Dee/Seven line, all announcements state request stops at Wrexham/Ruabon/Chirk (Bi ling) and Gobowen which I use every thursday.The CIS also state request stops with an x

 

[Greenback]

I can also vouch for the fact that request stops are announced as such at main stations, and, in the vast majority of cases, on board the train. Drivers will stop if they see anyone on the platform, and conductors are normally very efficient at noting where passengers want to alight.

As said previously, if the conductor can't get down the train, the train will stop. This was frequently the case when Gowerton was listed as a request stop. I lost count of the number of times I heard the conductor announce that 'this train will stop at Gowerton' on services about to depart Swansea.

As for Clarbeston Road, not all services are by request, and these are not marked with an 'x' in the timetable.

 

[Starmill]

I feel as though it was a mistake I'm never likely to live down!

The guard didn't ask where I wanted to get off when they sold me the West Wales Day Ranger, but then, I never actually thought to venture this information!

I agree that in the past whenever I have been on ATW they have dealt onboard with the request stops splendidly, which was partly why I was so unconcerned about this and didn't see the problem coming until we sailed through the station!

The screens and announcements at all of the stations in Wales west of Carmarthen that I saw that day were all the same; none displayed the 'x' after the request stops.

 

[Greenback]

With a ranger, I'd expect the guard to ask where you are going. Having said that, when I had a South Wales flexi rover a few years back, I don't remember ever being asked! This was before the extra Fishguard trains, and I didn't alight at any request stops, but I remember the guards being very proactive in checking tickets and noting request stops like Lamphey if they spotted a ticket for that station.

I think it's a good idea to mention your destination to the conductor if you are on rover or ranger. But of course, if the screens don't say it's a request stop, how are you supposed to know?! Double checking is probably the best solution either before getting on or once you are on board.

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

The problem I have seen with ATW's requests stops is different: it's that the displays on the Class 175s only show the non-request stops on the on-board displays. More than once I have seen people alighting at Yorton thinking they were at Shrewsbury because they have read the display which says "Next station Shrewsbury"; especially when the train is running a few minutes late, the mistake is understandable because the time is about right for Shrewsbury. Now I know that passengers are responsible for checking where they are, but it's hardly their fault when they are misled because of a wrong display on the train! I haven't seen this happen on the daytime stopping services, presumably because (a) there is no visual display to misinterpret (meaning they pay more attention to the audio announcements) and (b) it's usually daylight when those services are running so it's easier to tell that the train is still out in the sticks.

 

[Kite159]

I was on a couple ATW request stop services on Monday (10:40 Newport to Fishguard via Swansea District Line & Heart of Wales service) and both times the guard was proactive in going up and down to check for any request stops, even heading straight to the passengers alighting from stations on the Heart of Wales to check where they want to go (and also to check/sell tickets).

 

[Delta558]

The 10:40 Newport - Fishguard service doesn't have any request stops on it, it calls CDF, BGN, LLE, WTL, FGW and FGH. All are booked stops. It's one where we quite regularly get passengers boarding at Llanelli for either Burry Port or Carmarthen, despite correct advertising on the train itself, the CIS screens and the platform announcements!

 

[Michael.Y]

The 10:40 Newport - Fishguard service doesn't have any request stops on it, it calls CDF, BGN, LLE, WTL, FGW and FGH. All are booked stops. It's one where we quite regularly get passengers boarding at Llanelli for either Burry Port or Carmarthen, despite correct advertising on the train itself, the CIS screens and the platform announcements!

Twas even better in the past when it didn't call at Bridgend. An hour non-stop on a Class 150 (or, if you were unlucky, a 143 bolted to the back of a Class 150)

 

[Kite159]

Twas even better in the past when it didn't call at Bridgend. An hour non-stop on a Class 150 (or, if you were unlucky, a 143 bolted to the back of a Class 150)

I guess I was lucky with a 158 with 153 on the front then, apart from passengers not working out that the 153 was the unit with all the reservation slips

 

[Delta558]

Twas even better in the past when it didn't call at Bridgend. An hour non-stop on a Class 150 (or, if you were unlucky, a 143 bolted to the back of a Class 150)

Twas even better when you could pop the oven on whilst prepping Mk2 coaching stock, stick a pasty in the oven before you set off and then enjoy it during that hour over the District!

 

[GarethJohn]

The problem I have seen with ATW's requests stops is different: it's that the displays on the Class 175s only show the non-request stops on the on-board displays. More than once I have seen people alighting at Yorton thinking they were at Shrewsbury because they have read the display which says "Next station Shrewsbury"; especially when the train is running a few minutes late, the mistake is understandable because the time is about right for Shrewsbury. Now I know that passengers are responsible for checking where they are, but it's hardly their fault when they are misled because of a wrong display on the train! I haven't seen this happen on the daytime stopping services, presumably because (a) there is no visual display to misinterpret (meaning they pay more attention to the audio announcements) and (b) it's usually daylight when those services are running so it's easier to tell that the train is still out in the sticks.

How could you mistake Yorton for Shrewsbury ?

 

[quarella]

How could you mistake Yorton for Shrewsbury ?

It is so easy to say that but stations are not always as we may expect. Would you expect one of the stations for a major tourist resort to just be a couple of bus sheters. (Blackpool North). Other stations with a very limited service still have vast Victorian buildings. Wonder if TorqueoftheDevil just watches these people alight at Yorton knowing they want Shrewsbury.

I don't know if the auto-announce on ATW 175s has been changed but a while ago the announcement was "We will be calling at the following principal stations ..." before listing every wayside halt including Yorton.

 

[GarethJohn]

It is so easy to say that but stations are not always as we may expect. Would you expect one of the stations for a major tourist resort to just be a couple of bus sheters. (Blackpool North). Other stations with a very limited service still have vast Victorian buildings. Wonder if TorqueoftheDevil just watches these people alight at Yorton knowing they want Shrewsbury.

I don't know if the auto-announce on ATW 175s has been changed but a while ago the announcement was "We will be calling at the following principal stations ..." before listing every wayside halt including Yorton.

I can imagine mistaking one of the Cambrian Coast line stop's for another due to the amount listed on the timetable and a passenger trying to count the stations until their one. Or falling a sleep and trying to work out where you are. But

Isn't Yorton a short platform requiring specific announcements ?
If the Train Conductor knows there are passengers needing it they will/should announce it .
If they know for sure their isn't any passengers on their is no point making an announcement.
Yorton has signs on the Station and is as different to Shrewsbury as you can possibly get (apart from the accents).

Yorton:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/40011...7eE-dYLYWa-bzpSyH-9BkMHt-7dAC2q-7dwJge-bdkLag

Shrewsbury:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/azimb...933-bGUEri-bJikQi-9pYB7Q-ehsvTN-bAvsuJ-bimHZz

 

[Llanigraham]

Sorry, but someone confusing Yorton for Shrewsbury shouldn't be allowed out on their own!

 

[edwin_m]

If it's dark, you're going by the clock and you haven't had any announcements, then I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult for someone not too familiar with the stations to get off at the wrong one. Especially if they had to attend to heavy luggage or small children, and as the train pulled in their view out was obscured by the luggage rack or toilet as it often is when your queuing to get out of those units that have end vestibules. As the train was running late the guard would be anxious to get it moving again, and if you weren't the first off you might have 20s or less to realise it was the wrong station and re-board the train.

 

[daikilo]

Sorry, but someone confusing Yorton for Shrewsbury shouldn't be allowed out on their own!

Indeed, so why does the train and driver say the next stop will be Shrewsbury, when it wasn't?

 

[Llanigraham]

Indeed, so why does the train and driver say the next stop will be Shrewsbury, when it wasn't?

The driver doesn't say anything! ATW drivers do not make announcements.

And Yorton is only a request stop so no the train doesn't always stop there, therefore the auto announcement don't include it. As has already been stated.:roll:

 

[PHILIPE]

I think it's the internal display on the 175s that is the actual subject of complaint. I've often seen them a station out.

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Wonder if TorqueoftheDevil just watches these people alight at Yorton knowing they want Shrewsbury.

Even if I spent my time hanging around looking out for this to happen, how would I know straight away whether they wanted Yorton or not? On the occasions this has happened, it only became apparent (to the mistaken passengers as well as me) that they were in the wrong place as they picked up their suitcase from the platform and looked around, by which time the doors are shut and the train is departing. As I said, I have only seen this happen after dark.

If it's dark, you're going by the clock and you haven't had any announcements, then I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult for someone not too familiar with the stations to get off at the wrong one

I agree. There are two station name signs on each platform but both the ones on the southbound platform are in the shade and wouldn't be obvious in the dark, unless you happened to alight from a door immediately in front of one of the signs

 

[Parallel]

I think it's the internal display on the 175s that is the actual subject of complaint. I've often seen them a station out.

I saw a video somewhere of someone on a 175 just about to arrive at Shrewsbury with the announcement saying "The next station will be Llandudno Junction. Thank you."

There have been issues with the internal electronic displays along the Cambrian lines too. It seems they get confused when the trains join at Machynlleth so staff usually turn them off in which ever unit it has affected. This also happens with SWT 159s that split at Salisbury on occasion.

 

[craigybagel]

For what it's worth, most 175 services booked to call at Yorton are 3 car, which means local door only. You can't get off without going past the guard, so it's even less likely you'll end up getting off there thinking you're in Shrewsbury. There is an issue with the PIS system on the 158s with request stops, but most guards at this stage switch it off at that point, it's not worth the hassle it causes.

 

[GarethJohn]

How did you know they wanted Shrewsbury? Did they tell you? Did you check their tickets?
They did not check up what there destination may look like before travelling. And upon not hearing a Shrewsbury announcement they then started to walk to a door as the Train slowed down. How did they know it was slowing for a Station?
Not looking out of the window for any sign of where they were while walking down the carriage, they also happened to be next to the correct door with a Conductor standing next to it, who hadn't announced Yorton as they had not been requested it on the Train, who then did not think to mention anything as they got off. Did they look confused looking around for clues to where they were? Were they a bit drunk/sleepy? And how long did it take for them to realise that they were in the middle of nowhere in a place not resembling Shrewsbury in anyway with signs saying Yorton ?

All in all getting off there by mistake a pretty difficult thing to do and unless they were incredibly stupid I'd guess they actually chose to get off there.
Or it is just a story you made up.

 

[Via Bank]

I saw a video somewhere of someone on a 175 just about to arrive at Shrewsbury with the announcement saying "The next station will be Llandudno Junction. Thank you."

There have been issues with the internal electronic displays along the Cambrian lines too. It seems they get confused when the trains join at Machynlleth so staff usually turn them off in which ever unit it has affected. This also happens with SWT 159s that split at Salisbury on occasion.

I wouldn't be surprised if the problems are down to them being the same (rubbish) PIS as the 458s and 334s, which seems likely given they all come from Alstom's Coradia family. The Junipers have an odometer-based PIS, which is prone to running behind or ahead thanks to wheelslip or if it hasn't been configured or set correctly. It can't correct itself based on GPS readings, unlike the newer systems in (for example) Desiros and Electrostars.