Arriva Trains - Prosecution?

[Newport]

Hi all

I have read through many posts about similar circumstances to mine (my sons) and recognise the seriousness of this situation but will try to be as brief as possible as there are a few specific questions I have.

Yesterday, my son caught an Arriva train from Barry to Cardiff as he regularly does. He is used to purchasing a ticket on train and expected to do so.
There are ticket buying facilities at Barry but he is used to purchasing on the train so planned to do so.

The train arrives at Cardiff without a conductor coming round so he buys his ticket at Cardiff and states he has traveled from (the most recent station) Grangetown. A Revenue Inspector had witnessed his travel and challenged him.

He was completely honest and stated what he had done and gave all of the usual statements honestly. Clearly he acknowledged that he had committed an offence.
When I asked him why, he said he didn't know and that he just did it on the spur of the moment. He regularly uses this route and still has many tickets showing he usually pays the full fare.

Not making any excuses here, he committed an offence, was caught and will have to suffer the consequences. He should not have avoided the correct fare.

My questions are:
What is Arriva's record on prosecuting this offence or simply issue a fine?
Do they accept an early - or any - offer of an out of court settlement?
This is his first offence and he can evidence his record of payment, will this assist in mitigation?
If they proceed to court, what is the likely fine?
If prosecuted (he will plead guilty as early as he can) how long would the subsequent conviction appear on his record - will it get 'spent' at some point?

Thanks in advance.

 

[yorkie]

What is Arriva's record on prosecuting this offence or simply issue a fine?

They will prosecute, and a successful prosecution (which this would be, as he is admitting guilt) would indeed result in a fine, in addition to a criminal record.

Do they accept an early - or any - offer of an out of court settlement?

That is likely.

This is his first offence and he can evidence his record of payment, will this assist in mitigation?

If ATW have no reason to believe it's a repeat offence, and merely a one-off, that would minimise the amount they would be prepared to settle for.

Obviously, it is in the interests of both parties to reach an out of court settlement.

I have heard of some Train Companies coming to agreements by 'phone, but most will require any correspondence to be in writing.

 

[Newport]

Yorkie, thank you for your prompt and detailed reply which is very much appreciated.

Our intention is to be completely honest, evidence his record of payment and offer settlement.

In case it is of use to future posters, I will let you know the progress and outcome.

Thank you again.

 

[bb21]

With first offences, train companies tend to give the offender the opportunity to learn his lesson and settle out of court, if shown genuine remorse and the right attitude. They are not obliged to however. Court convictions under the Regulation of Railways Act (which carry a record) quite commonly carries a fine circa £300-£500, plus compensation for unpaid fare, victim surcharge, and costs. but it can vary depending on the individual circumstances. The fine for a conviction under the Railway Byelaws (non-recordable) typically comes in at around £150. Only the compensation part and costs (which may or may not cover the whole amount requested by the prosecution) will go to the train company, so it is also financially advantageous for them to settle.

I can see sufficient evidence to demonstrate the opposite to your son's claim that he had "intended to pay his fare", so a charge under the Regulation of Railways Act is quite possible should negotiation for an out of court settlement fails. The action of asking for a short fare is sufficient proof that he showed intent to avoid paying the correct fare. There is not always a reason for that, and I quite believe that he did it in the spur of the moment. Many opportunist fare evaders make last-minute decisions when they see a chance to save a few quid. Most teenagers especially will want to save their limited funds for other things rather than pay their train fare, so your son is not alone.

His past tickets will probably mean nothing because it is what he did on that particular day that matters.

 

[Clip]

His past tickets will probably mean nothing because it is what he did on that particular day that matters.

Indeed. And also if the OPs son travels daily but there are not daily recordsd then they could look upon him as a serial evader who will only purchase a ticket when the guard comes round - not saying he is but it needs to be looked at from the TOCs point of view only.

 

[Greenback]

I was about to say something very similar. Any gaps in the dates for which full tickets are supplied may need explaining. It may end up looking worse rather than better, but only the OP will know how comprehensive the tickets are.

 

[Newport]

Thank you all for your replies.

He isn't a daily traveler - but a regular one. Any gaps are simply because he didn't travel on those dates but I can understand how this may be seen otherwise.

Poster bb2 says : I can see sufficient evidence to demonstrate the opposite to your son's claim that he had "intended to pay his fare"

Agree completely with this. He boarded the train with the full intent of paying as he usually does but no conductor came around (as had always happened previously). He then took a spur of the moment decision to under declare his journey. Be in no doubt he understands his mistake and won't repeat it no matter what the outcome of this!

Thanks again for your time in replying.

 

[Flamingo]

Given that "ticket from Grangetown" is the most common form of fare evasion at the barriers in Cardiff, I would seriously doubt that this is a first offence, even if it is first time caught.

I don't know if the company doing the Revenue Protection for ATW is open to out-of-court settlements or not, what's the history on here?

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

My questions are:
What is Arriva's record on prosecuting this offence or simply issue a fine?
Do they accept an early - or any - offer of an out of court settlement?
This is his first offence and he can evidence his record of payment, will this assist in mitigation?
If they proceed to court, what is the likely fine?
If prosecuted (he will plead guilty as early as he can) how long would the subsequent conviction appear on his record - will it get 'spent' at some point?

Thanks in advance.

I posted a similar tale of woe a few weeks back regarding an 'acquaintance' of mine (actually my daughter)...much to my surprise after a brief exchange of correspondence an offer to settle out of court was accepted and has now been paid. I think that this offer can be made available to those who have no previous history. My daughter has learnt her lesson

 

[Newport]

I posted a similar tale of woe a few weeks back regarding an 'acquaintance' of mine (actually my daughter)...much to my surprise after a brief exchange of correspondence an offer to settle out of court was accepted and has now been paid. I think that this offer can be made available to those who have no previous history. My daughter has learnt her lesson

Thank you. Similarly, lesson learnt.

To Flamingo, I do think this is his first offence to be honest. I know the frequency he uses the train and for various reasons, he has most, if not all,of his tickets going back well over 12 months and they demonstrate a clear pattern of fare paying from the correct station. Unless of course you know something I don't!!!

 

[bb21]

In Flamingo's line of work, he sees plenty of people who are repeat offenders, and we get these people on here from time to time, too. Quite naturally some forum members are sceptical when people claim that it is the first time they have done it when caught because everyone would say that and it would be quite a coincidence to be that unlucky. It is also a common theme with teenagers (not all of course, but many) that they don't tell their parents the full story when they are caught, for a number of reasons, and we have also seen such occurrences on here before.

But I'm sure you know your child best, therefore you should be in a good position to judge whether you believe what you child said or not. At the end of the day, you are the one that will have to help him with this situation.

 

[Flamingo]

Most South Wales stations were not generally barriered until about 2004-2005 with barriers at Cardiff Central relying on passengers buying their tickets on arrival. The yearly traffic from Grangetown (less than 1 mile from Cardiff Central) measured by tickets sold was over 600,000 in 2003-2004. By 2006-2007 (when the gatelines had been reintroduced) passenger numbers buying tickets to/from Grangetown had dropped to 115,000, which has risen a bit, but was 170,000 last year. (Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grangetown_railway_station)

What caused over a half a million journies a year to no longer happen? Draw your own conclusions.

(Judging by the Disputes thread, ATW Revenue Protection have had a productive time. I know that they were recently at a South Wales mainline station and reported 15 for fare evasion in an afternoon!)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It is a matter of fact that ATW may accept an out of Court settlement for a first offender.

On the other hand, it is not probable that any investigator will be inclined to believe the facts are presented on here. So I cannot advise repeating them.

Flamingo offers some statistics from the most basic of industry data collection tools (ticket sales). Let me just introduce another that would have to be true for your son's report to be applicable:
It requires 4 coincidences all to line up at the same moment.
1. He couldn't buy a ticket (actually this is already a coincidence of two facts that he didn't buy before boarding as required by law and didn't buy during travel which should have been possible).
2. On that very same journey, he was interviewed about his failure to buy a ticket in an ad hoc patrol to manage fare evasion.
3. On that very same journey he experienced a 'spur of the moment' impulse to wrongly name the station at which his journey began,
4. That wrongly named station just happens to carry a cheaper fare to the destination than the fare from the actual station at which he boarded.

Coincidences do happen in life, and I'm sure we can all recount some examples - but do you know, there is one more to add to the list?
Railway Companies have been managing fare evasion for well over a century now, and by coincidence, they have discoverd that a very large proprotion of their passengers experience all four of the unusual circumstances I've listed above every day they are out speaking to passengers.

In short, don't waste time with the 'usually pays the full fare' story. He will already have been assessed as one of the regulars and has to face up to that simple truth. The fine, if an out of Court Settlement is not agreed, will depend on the facts, but is likely to be around £70 to £200 plus the ticket cost plus admin costs which depend on how easy or hard he makes their work (say £100 to £400) plus victim surcharge.