Arriva service cuts in North Herts?

[philjo]

There is a letter in The Comet (local newspaper) this week saying that Arriva is planning to cut route 98 (Hitchin-Letchworth-Baldock) in the New Year.

Nothing mentioned on Intalink services changes pages yet but it looks like the service registration has already been cancelled
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/484793/

This would mean that Baldock only has the less frequent Buses that go to Ashwell and the Buntingford bus. (and Baldock is planned to lose the fast trains in 2018 under the GTR timetable consultation for Thameslink integration).


I see that services 96/96A (letchworth to Stotfold) and 97 (hitchin to stotfold/arlesey) are also shown as cancelled
https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/484804/

Does anyone know of any other forthcoming cuts planned?

 

[jon0844]

We're on alert for loads of bus cuts in March and HCC has been telling at least one operator to monitor passenger numbers for a while, with decisions made this month and the start of January.

I got advance details of the last round of cuts, where HCC pulled funding or part funding, which saw the late evening and Sunday buses axed. Pretty much only buses serving the Lister were saved.

Obviously anyone can take on all the financial risk and possibly even do well if other services competing are axed, but that takes time and, again, is a risk that a lot of companies don't want to to take. Problem is they may wait until buses are axed/cut, then decide what risk to take, but by the time they start people make alternative plans.

 

[MedwayValiant]

I'm a bit puzzled here, because the effective dates of the cancellations of the services are given as 9 October 2016. That date is well past, and the services haven't disappeared yet. Is it possible that the services are not actually being withdrawn, but that Arriva is moving them to a different O-licence? I don't know the reason or the full details, but I seem to remember Arriva services in Colchester being moved onto Kent Thameside's O-licence a couple of years back.

If they really are being withdrawn altogether, Stotfold is more significant than Baldock. It's a town of 7,000 without a railway station, and would be by quite some distance the biggest place in the UK to have no public transport service at all. (OK, so there would still be the Wanderbus shopping service three times a week. Doesn't count.)

The worry has to be that if that is what is happening, Hertfordshire and Central Bedfordshire will both say that it is the other's job to do something about it.

 

[philjo]

There used to be a regular evening and sunday service to Stotfold but that got cut back last year.

 

[MedwayValiant]

It turns out that the 96/96A, 97, and 98 services have indeed all been taken off Arriva The Shires' O-licence and re-registered on Arriva Kent Thameside's O-licence. No subsequent cancellation of any of these services has been registered.

 

[spuddie]

Any idea why they are moving them to a different licence? Wouldn't that mean the vehicles used would have to be on that licence too?

 

[MedwayValiant]

Moving services from one O-licence to another is sometimes a bit of a ruse, but in this case it appears to be a deliberate decision.

Although the legal name of the Arriva company based in Luton is still Arriva The Shires, they seem to be switching to using the name Arriva Beds and Bucks in their publicity. For whatever reason, services in Hertfordshire and Essex are now managed from Maidstone rather than from Luton, using the fleetname Arriva Herts and Essex but legally operated by Arriva Kent Thameside.

 

[Robertj21a]

Moving services from one O-licence to another is sometimes a bit of a ruse, but in this case it appears to be a deliberate decision.

Although the legal name of the Arriva company based in Luton is still Arriva The Shires, they seem to be switching to using the name Arriva Beds and Bucks in their publicity. For whatever reason, services in Hertfordshire and Essex are now managed from Maidstone rather than from Luton, using the fleetname Arriva Herts and Essex but legally operated by Arriva Kent Thameside.

Presumably anything that remains 'The Shires' is being killed off. Luton is part of the Arriva Midlands operations nowadays.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

There was something in Buses magazine a couple of months ago about the Herts & Essex operations transferring to Southern Counties and the Beds & Bucks operations moving to the Midlands. Admittedly the Shires hasn't been the crowning glory of Arriva's operations over the years. Managing decline would be the kindest description... HOWEVER I don't see how moving control of these operations to even further flung places will do anything to turn the operations around

 

[Robertj21a]

There was something in Buses magazine a couple of months ago about the Herts & Essex operations transferring to Southern Counties and the Beds & Bucks operations moving to the Midlands. Admittedly the Shires hasn't been the crowning glory of Arriva's operations over the years. Managing decline would be the kindest description... HOWEVER I don't see how moving control of these operations to even further flung places will do anything to turn the operations around

I thought one of the key reasons was to separate out the red (TFL) ops from the more traditional provincial ops. Hence the Watford (Garston) ops now, I believe, come under Arriva London but places like Luton, High Wycombe, Aylesbury and Milton Keynes are managed as part of the Midlands.

 

[Deerfold]

There is a letter in The Comet (local newspaper) this week saying that Arriva is planning to cut route 98 (Hitchin-Letchworth-Baldock) in the New Year.

Nothing mentioned on Intalink services changes pages yet but it looks like the service registration has already been cancelled
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.service.gov.uk/search/find-registered-local-bus-services/details/484793/

This would mean that Baldock only has the less frequent Buses that go to Ashwell and the Buntingford bus. (and Baldock is planned to lose the fast trains in 2018 under the GTR timetable consultation for Thameslink integration).

I see that services 96/96A (letchworth to Stotfold) and 97 (hitchin to stotfold/arlesey) are also shown as cancelled
https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/484804/

Does anyone know of any other forthcoming cuts planned?

I didn't think there was much left to cut there.

When I moved to Hitchin in 2001 there were buses every 10 minutes between Hitchin and Letchworth, with a half-hourly evening service until 11.

Last buses are 4 hours or so earlier, with half the frequency there was then.

 

[MedwayValiant]

I thought one of the key reasons was to separate out the red (TFL) ops from the more traditional provincial ops. Hence the Watford (Garston) ops now, I believe, come under Arriva London but places like Luton, High Wycombe, Aylesbury and Milton Keynes are managed as part of the Midlands.

A look at the registrations shows that it's not quite that simple. TfL services run out of Garston are registered to Arriva London North, while Watford and Hemel local services are registered to Arriva Kent Thameside in the same way as most other "Arriva Herts and Essex" branded services. But the 321 to Luton and the 500 to Aylesbury are registered to Arriva The Shires, even though they are branded "Herts and Essex". Local management must be an interesing job!

It's been suggested - here and elsewhere - that Arriva would probably be open to selling its Colchester and Southend operations if it got a sensible offer for them. Does the same apply to the Herts and Essex operation, but it would want to keep the 321 and 500 which is why they are on a different O-licence?

 

[Busaholic]

It's been suggested - here and elsewhere - that Arriva would probably be open to selling its Colchester and Southend operations if it got a sensible offer for them.QUOTE]

An offer from First would almost certainly have to be approved by the competition authorities!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Does the same apply to the Herts and Essex operation, but it would want to keep the 321 and 500 which is why they are on a different O-licence?

The 500 is operated by more than one depot, IIRC both Hemel and Aylesbury depots also have running boards for that route. As far as I can see, it's actually registered to both Arriva Thameside and Arriva The Shires now, probably for this reason.

I expect that Arriva would be very happy to sell the Hemel Hempstead depot if someone wanted to take it off its hands. To say they've been managing decline is being generous, it's been clear for at least the last five years that Arriva don't really give a stuff about the town.

 

[MedwayValiant]

An offer from First would almost certainly have to be approved by the competition authorities!

This does seem very likely, and in the case of Southend it's hard to imagine who else might be interested in the Arriva operation.

Colchester has a couple of possibilities though. Go Ahead already has Chambers and Hedingham in that area, so why not add the Arriva routes and make a proper "Go North Essex". Or Ipswich Buses' purchase of Carters Coaches last year gave it the Ipswich to Colchester service, so why not run local services at both ends?

I can't really see anyone wanting the entire Arriva operation in Hertfordshire either. What actually makes much money? The 300/301 and the Stevenage locals might, but possibly not a great deal else.

Go Ahead (as Carousel Buses) might be the most likely to take Hemel off Arriva's hands - but if there was a deal to be done there, it would probably have been done by now.

Same applies to Stagecoach and the Hitchin and Letchworth corner. Which is a shame, because a properly organised Hitchin - Cambridge service might have potential.

 

[SteveHFC]

The 500 is operated by more than one depot, IIRC both Hemel and Aylesbury depots also have running boards for that route. As far as I can see, it's actually registered to both Arriva Thameside and Arriva The Shires now, probably for this reason.

I expect that Arriva would be very happy to sell the Hemel Hempstead depot if someone wanted to take it off its hands. To say they've been managing decline is being generous, it's been clear for at least the last five years that Arriva don't really give a stuff about the town.

The 321 is also operated by more than one depot - if my observations are right - whereas previously 100% was operated by Garston, now the majority is operated by Luton, with the rest operated by Garston.

321 Sapphire branded vehicles are often found running on local Luton services, more often than not the 31, 32 and 33.

 

[anti-pacer]

Presumably anything that remains 'The Shires' is being killed off. Luton is part of the Arriva Midlands operations nowadays.

How silly. Since when have Beds and Bucks been in the Midlands?

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

How silly. Since when have Beds and Bucks been in the Midlands?

since the bits just west of Glasgow constituted the whole of Scotland?

or since Wales became only about 20 miles wide?

seriously though, Bedfordshire has always been apt to be referred to being in the south midlands.... I remember when the Luton Co-op superstore closed the foodstores dotted around Luton and Dunstable became part of the south midlands co-op

 

[anti-pacer]

since the bits just west of Glasgow constituted the whole of Scotland?

or since Wales became only about 20 miles wide?

seriously though, Bedfordshire has always been apt to be referred to being in the south midlands.... I remember when the Luton Co-op superstore closed the foodstores dotted around Luton and Dunstable became part of the south midlands co-op

It's bad enough it being lumped in with the East of England, but the Midlands is just as crazy. It's the South East really.

This "South Midlands" tag is just odd.

 

[Mwanesh]

The new MD cocked up big time.Stevenage, Ware and Hemel are now part if Southern Counties managed in Maidstone.They are nowhere near each other.Luton ,MK ,Aylesbury and High Wycombe are now part of Midlands.Stagecoach have said they will never come to Hertfordshire.I remember from the Sovereign Inquiry they said costs were too high.First are downsizing.Go Ahead have many problems at present.

 

[anti-pacer]

The new MD cocked up big time.Stevenage, Ware and Hemel are now part if Southern Counties managed in Maidstone.They are nowhere near each other.Luton ,MK ,Aylesbury and High Wycombe are now part of Midlands.Stagecoach have said they will never come to Hertfordshire.I remember from the Sovereign Inquiry they said costs were too high.First are downsizing.Go Ahead have many problems at present.

Being managed from Maidstone seems only slightly more plausible than being managed from Leicester, although still nonsensical.

At least Hertfordshire is a southern county. Arriva need a geography listen if they think Beds and Bucks fall under any part of the Midlands.

 

[Robertj21a]

Being managed from Maidstone seems only slightly more plausible than being managed from Leicester, although still nonsensical.

At least Hertfordshire is a southern county. Arriva need a geography listen if they think Beds and Bucks fall under any part of the Midlands.

The Beds and Berks operations will still have local management, it's only the overall management that has become part of the Midlands operation. Indeed, Leicester already seemed rather well placed as a centre for bus operations

- Arriva Midlands (and Arriva Midlands North), covering Leicester and Derby as well as Birmingham, Staffordshire, Welsh borders etc

- First Midlands, covering Leicester, but Potteries and Worcester as well

- Centrebus, covering Leicester, but also Beds, Berks, Northants and, as High Peak, Derbyshire up to Manchester.

 

[philjo]

Same applies to Stagecoach and the Hitchin and Letchworth corner. Which is a shame, because a properly organised Hitchin - Cambridge service might have potential.

Stagecoach do operate the Bedford to Hitchin service though most of the route is in Bedfordshire. I see the intalink service changes bulletin indicates that evening weekday services on this route will be withdrawn in the new year.

Likewise, Stagecoach operate the Cambrodge to Royston service. Intalink also indicate that the weekday daytime services between 0900 and 1600 will be reduced to running 2-hourly. Not an issue for Royston as they have 2 trains an hour to Cambridge but the bus serves several villages en-route that are not close to the 3 village stations.

 

[MedwayValiant]

I'd suggest that this is an issue for Royston. Cambridge station is well out of the city centre, and Royston station is also a fair walk from the town centre.

The largest of the villages in between is Melbourn. Meldreth station isn't all that far from Melbourn - not quite a mile - and it will be getting an improved train service in 2018, but they are on opposite sides of the A10 and it's too far for those who don't walk very well.

 

[A0]

Being managed from Maidstone seems only slightly more plausible than being managed from Leicester, although still nonsensical.

At least Hertfordshire is a southern county. Arriva need a geography listen if they think Beds and Bucks fall under any part of the Midlands.

Except older readers among us will remember that in the dim and distant days of the National Bus Company that London Country (who had depots in Stevenage, Hemel and Hertford) were managed from Reigate.

And United Counties, who managed Luton and Aylesbury were managed from Northampton.

So management from Leicester and Maidstone isn't really all that different to how it used to be.....