Arriva Midlands

[isaac27]

I’ve seen that the new E200MMC’s due for Tamworth have started to arrive at the depot now with 2157 (YX26JZM) and 2158 (YX26JZN) arriving this week.

The long wait for new buses at Tamworth is nearly over, hopefully they will be in service very soon!

I’ve seen them in person today at the depot. They are hoping to send them out for the first time on Monday which is great news!

 

[BusLink61]

I’ve seen them in person today at the depot. They are hoping to send them out for the first time on Monday which is great news!

Yes I think this may be for type training with new features for the drivers such as the camera mirrors etc…

 

[joieman]

I’ve seen that the new E200MMC’s due for Tamworth have started to arrive at the depot now with 2157 (YX26JZM) and 2158 (YX26JZN) arriving this week.

The long wait for new buses at Tamworth is nearly over, hopefully they will be in service very soon!

Aargh, why 21xx and not 31xx...

 

[citybus2500]

Aargh, why 21xx and not 31xx...

3xxx is for 12m buses, 2xxx is for 10/11m buses, so 21xx is correct. Unusual, given the general shambles of fleet numbering within all parts of Arriva!

 

[Russel]

3xxx is for 12m buses, 2xxx is for 10/11m buses, so 21xx is correct. Unusual, given the general shambles of fleet numbering within all parts of Arriva!

That's took me by surprise, I didn't realize there was that much thought put into fleet numbering at Arriva.

I really wish they would move to a national system.

 

[joieman]

3xxx is for 12m buses, 2xxx is for 10/11m buses, so 21xx is correct. Unusual, given the general shambles of fleet numbering within all parts of Arriva!

Apart from the trio of second-hand MMCs, all E200MMCs until now have been numbered in the 31xx series regardless of length.

Luton's new E400MMCs also got numbered in the 44xx series rather than following on from 4579 and being numbered 4580 onwards.

 

[isaac27]

Yes I think this may be for type training with new features for the drivers such as the camera mirrors etc…

Yes they’ve also had Yx72oef to also help with training and camera mirrors. The drivers have been taking it in turns to do the dm1 and Tz2 for the past couple of weeks. It will be interesting to see what goes in place of them. I would think it would most likely be the versas.
Hopefully the new busses get looked after by both passengers and Arriva.

 

[busfan308]

I suppose 12 if you include recently scrapped FJ58 KXP (which I don’t think was replaced by a decker)?

 

[Qwerty133]

Leicester also have 4 E400s (4400/4401/4424/4425) which could be freed up (and return 4400/4401 to their sisters in Derby) when the single deck EVs start to arrive in the coming months.

Given single decks are already being used on decker boards on a daily basis at Thurmaston I really don’t think further reducing the number of deckers would be anything other than an idiotic (and potentially illegal given the requirement to provide sufficient capacity for the expected demand on registered services) move.

 

[isaac27]

Versa 2978 has been sent to Luton this morning from Tamworth.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Given single decks are already being used on decker boards on a daily basis at Thurmaston I really don’t think further reducing the number of deckers would be anything other than an idiotic (and potentially illegal given the requirement to provide sufficient capacity for the expected demand on registered services) move.

Proving ‘illegal’ operation based on capacity would certainly be an interesting legal test case. I don’t think it has ever been done before. I’m not even sure on what grounds it would be illegal. Can you advise the relevant legislation please?

 

[Qwerty133]

Proving ‘illegal’ operation based on capacity would certainly be an interesting legal test case. I don’t think it has ever been done before. I’m not even sure on what grounds it would be illegal. Can you advise the relevant legislation please?

It may be more unlawful than illegal but the mechanism is that services that are unable to pick up all of the waiting passengers are considered to have not ran punctually and could therefore contribute towards an enquiry with the transport commissioner.

 

[Cesarcollie]

It may be more unlawful than illegal but the mechanism is that services that are unable to pick up all of the waiting passengers are considered to have not ran punctually and could therefore contribute towards an enquiry with the transport commissioner.

Really? Surely unlawful and illegal mean the same thing!

What part of the 1985 Act or subsequent amendment says that?

 

[SalopBuses]

It may be more unlawful than illegal but the mechanism is that services that are unable to pick up all of the waiting passengers are considered to have not ran punctually and could therefore contribute towards an enquiry with the transport commissioner.

Wait about this a couple times I have been denied from the bus because it was full despite its usual allocation, is this classed as unlawful?
Once I tried to get on but the driver said no BUT I was one of the first people at the stop and more people came before the bus arrived and I couldn't get on as most of them pushed in, does this also count?

 

[isaac27]

2157 (edit) and now 2158 are out on their first journeys marking the start of the regeneration of Tamworth depot.

 

[Qwerty133]

Wait about this a couple times I have been denied from the bus because it was full despite its usual allocation, is this classed as unlawful?
Once I tried to get on but the driver said no BUT I was one of the first people at the stop and more people came before the bus arrived and I couldn't get on as most of them pushed in, does this also count?

If it was to relate to the booked vehicle being too small there would need to be a pattern of people being left behind on the same journey of the same service either daily or on the same day each week. In order to implement a sanction the Transport Commissioner would need evidence of people being left behind gained over a period of months and would also need evidence that the bus company could have foreseen that certain services would have left people behind. To show this I would assume that they would have to show regular use of vehicles on individual services with a higher level of average passengers than the capacity of the vehicle used, this could be the use of a too-small vehicle on the same service each day or too-small vehicles being used to cover different services each day.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If it was to relate to the booked vehicle being too small there would need to be a pattern of people being left behind on the same journey of the same service either daily or on the same day each week. In order to implement a sanction the Transport Commissioner would need evidence of people being left behind gained over a period of months and would also need evidence that the bus company could have foreseen that certain services would have left people behind. To show this I would assume that they would have to show regular use of vehicles on individual services with a higher level of average passengers than the capacity of the vehicle used, this could be the use of a too-small vehicle on the same service each day or too-small vehicles being used to cover different services each day.

In what way is it illegal or unlawful (which mean the same thing)?

 

[derbybusdepot]

If it was to relate to the booked vehicle being too small there would need to be a pattern of people being left behind on the same journey of the same service either daily or on the same day each week. In order to implement a sanction the Transport Commissioner would need evidence of people being left behind gained over a period of months and would also need evidence that the bus company could have foreseen that certain services would have left people behind. To show this I would assume that they would have to show regular use of vehicles on individual services with a higher level of average passengers than the capacity of the vehicle used, this could be the use of a too-small vehicle on the same service each day or too-small vehicles being used to cover different services each day.

And seeing as very little attention is given when services are missed out entirely, I doubt any would be given to a smaller bus being used.

As a general trend costs are going up and usage is in decline,more marginal routes are being cut /frequencies reduced in the hope funding is provided to restore said services or frequencies.

 

[joieman]

Given single decks are already being used on decker boards on a daily basis at Thurmaston I really don’t think further reducing the number of deckers would be anything other than an idiotic (and potentially illegal given the requirement to provide sufficient capacity for the expected demand on registered services) move.

Agreed. Personally, I'd have deckers on as many routes as possible, the X3 being an obvious exception due to it passing under a low bridge in Kibworth.

 

[Deerfold]

In what way is it illegal or unlawful (which mean the same thing)?

They're similar, but not synonyms.

Breaking the terms of a contract may be unlawful and you may be sued successfully, but the state wouldn't prosecute you as it's not illegal.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They're similar, but not synonyms.

Breaking the terms of a contract may be unlawful and you may be sued successfully, but the state wouldn't prosecute you as it's not illegal.

Actually, you are right.

I still don't see how providing a single decker instead of double decker on a commercial service is either though

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Agreed. Personally, I'd have deckers on as many routes as possible, the X3 being an obvious exception due to it passing under a low bridge in Kibworth.

With diesels the fuel cost difference (most marked at Euro 3 I think but still significant) of running a double decker over a single-decker, particularly a lighter weight option like an E200, was such that double-deckers were often only deployed where absolutely needed. With electrics I think the calculation is different but I suspect range issues may come in instead as single-deckers have less weight issues so can have larger batteries and run longer distances without recharge over a double-decker.

The X3 could really do with being double-deck, more so than some of the city services run with deckers being discussed as it can often be quite busy, and it would be quite easy to avoid going under that low bridge (just going back to the old route would do it) but they would have to get Stagecoach to also do it and they were the first operator to route under that low bridge.

 

[SSmith2009]

With diesels the fuel cost difference (most marked at Euro 3 I think but still significant) of running a double decker over a single-decker, particularly a lighter weight option like an E200, was such that double-deckers were often only deployed where absolutely needed. With electrics I think the calculation is different but I suspect range issues may come in instead as single-deckers have less weight issues so can have larger batteries and run longer distances without recharge over a double-decker.

The X3 could really do with being double-deck, more so than some of the city services run with deckers being discussed as it can often be quite busy, and it would be quite easy to avoid going under that low bridge (just going back to the old route would do it) but they would have to get Stagecoach to also do it and they were the first operator to route under that low bridge.

If anything the X3 needs to go back to a half-hourly service using single deckers.

Some of the routes that do have deckers frequently allocated such as the 6/6A, 37, 44/44A/44B could easily be worked by full sized saloons.

 

[BuhSnarf]

If anything the X3 needs to go back to a half-hourly service using single deckers.

Some of the routes that do have deckers frequently allocated such as the 6/6A, 37, 44/44A/44B could easily be worked by full sized saloons.

It's interesting that since the Wigston changes the 47/48 quite often has packed single decks and the 44/A/B seem to have hardly used new double deckers.

 

[SSmith2009]

It's interesting that since the Wigston changes the 47/48 quite often has packed single decks and the 44/A/B seem to have hardly used new double deckers.

I've noticed this too and the most I've have seen on the 44 is about dozen passengers.

 

[joieman]

It's interesting that since the Wigston changes the 47/48 quite often has packed single decks and the 44/A/B seem to have hardly used new double deckers.

I also noticed that a while back. Perhaps the idea is that the 47/48 are now supposed to be quasi-express bus services into the city centre now that they no longer go around the houses in Wigston Magna.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2026 ==

There's a photo on Facebook of a green ADL Enviro200EV, said to be for Arriva and therefore possibly for Leicestershire:

Alexander Dennis have made a E200 EV for arriva group as a demo I would of thought | Facebook

Alexander Dennis have made a E200 EV for arriva group as a demo I would of thought AR26 ZEB seen today about to leave the factory in Scarborough on a road test.

www.facebook.com

It's built to a similar demonstrator specification as Enviro400EV DM01-MD except for having Isringhausen Civic seats instead of Lazzerini Practico seats.

 

[BuhSnarf]

I also noticed that a while back. Perhaps the idea is that the 47/48 are now supposed to be quasi-express bus services into the city centre now that they no longer go around the houses in Wigston Magna.

I was wondering if it had been done to try and calm Neil O'Brien MP (etc) down. At least they can say those on the 44/A/B/S are getting the top of the line fleet for their increasingly long journey to town.

I had expected the anger over the changes to have died down a little by now but it is still rumbling on in the local Facebook groups and local news. Quieter, but still there.

 

[SSmith2009]

I was wondering if it had been done to try and calm Neil O'Brien MP (etc) down. At least they can say those on the 44/A/B/S are getting the top of the line fleet for their increasingly long journey to town.

I had expected the anger over the changes to have died down a little by now but it is still rumbling on in the local Facebook groups and local news. Quieter, but still there.

Anger over the changes hasn't died down because most of the changes made some routes unreliable with no additional running time built in when traffic causes delays ehile others have too much built into them and you get buses sitting at timing points for upto 15 mins.

 

[BuhSnarf]

Anger over the changes hasn't died down because most of the changes made some routes unreliable with no additional running time built in when traffic causes delays ehile others have too much built into them and you get buses sitting at timing points for upto 15 mins.

Yep, whilst the 47/48 is now brilliant for those of us on that route, those who need to use 44 and it's many variants... ooof it's a horrible long route.

 

[SalopBuses]

If it was to relate to the booked vehicle being too small there would need to be a pattern of people being left behind on the same journey of the same service either daily or on the same day each week. In order to implement a sanction the Transport Commissioner would need evidence of people being left behind gained over a period of months and would also need evidence that the bus company could have foreseen that certain services would have left people behind. To show this I would assume that they would have to show regular use of vehicles on individual services with a higher level of average passengers than the capacity of the vehicle used, this could be the use of a too-small vehicle on the same service each day or too-small vehicles being used to cover different services each day.

Once an Enviro200 ran on a busy route and after that the next 3 buses was cancelled, meaning I could not get on the bus.