Arriva court summons

[Laluz]

Hi guys.

I received a court summons today for apparently avoiding paying 50p. I got on the train at Blackrod travelling to Manchester Victoria. There's no ticket office at Blackrod so I couldn't buy a ticket. When I got off the train at Manchester Victoria there was a guy sat on a bench issuing the tickets from a hand held machine. He said "where from?" and I said "Blackrod, Bolton". I paid and he printed the ticket. Two seconds later two men got hold of me and pulled me to the side and said they were inspectors. He asked why I had purchased a ticket from Bolton and not from Blackrod and I told him that I told the ticket vendor I had said Blackrod, Bolton and I was issued the incorrect ticket; I offered the 50p difference but he said that it was not possible. He asked why I mentioned a Bolton and I replied that because Blackrod is in Bolton. He then asked for ID which I didn't have on my person and then asked for my address details which I gave. He accused me of lying about the details I had provided, I said they are my genuine details and he said he would go and check. When he returned after a few minutes he said they were false details because they weren't on the electoral register. The details were correct and I am on the electoral register and have been at this address for years. (So I don't know why all this nonsense about me giving false details, I was truthful all along). After all this he wrote a statement which I signed for him and then I left the station.

I was truthful all along and cooperated fully giving all correct details and complying fully with their requests despite their seemingly hostile attitude (one guy in particular). At one point I called a police woman over to help me because I felt I was being bullied somewhat and she was ambivalent towards the situation and another rail worker who was looking on who I spoke to was sympathetic towards me and agreed with me that they had made the error.

They issued me the wrong ticket so it's their fault. If I was being cynical I could have accused them fine harvesting but that would be difficult to prove. Also if I was trying to avoid payment I could have claimed to have travelled from Salford Central which would have been a cheaper ticket.

They sent a fixed penalty demand which I ignored after reading a similar situation in the Bolton Evening News faced by a traveller in 2015. You will have to google it I can't post links yet ( Bolton Eviening news business man train ticket fine )

He appealed the fixed penalty notice twice but they wouldn't budge so I didn't want to waste my time. I decided that I would let it go to court and plead not guilty because I am innocent and if I lost I would pay the costs because I hate bullies which is what Aviva are acting like and I will not be bullied by anyone.

What worries me about standing up to these bullies in court and proclaiming my innocents is that if I lose I will have a criminal record for the very first time which I do not want. I am travelling to USA with my family soon and it may jeopardise that and any other future travel plans.

I can settle for £100 and avoid all this but why should I? I've done nothing wrong.

What is my best course of action?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I'm sure the experts will be along in a minute but as long as you gave the correct boarding station (i.e. not short-fared) and gave your correct address details etc then I'm sure you've got nothing to worry about - however... you ignored the fixed penalty demand. If you are truly innocent, then why didn't you contact the relevant people re the fixed penalty?

 

[30907]

According to the National Rail website, Blackrod has ticket machines - were they not working, or was there some other reason why you did not use them?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Knowing that you have been issued with a Summons makes it clear to me that whatever the evidence that the Company has gathered, it is convincing enough to persuade them that a Prosecution against you will be most likely to succeed. I'm not going to ask you more questions about what happened on the day, nor about your opinions or your preferences for outcomes. And I'm not going to argue the point about the difference between 50p and paying the correct fare for the journey taken. What I will do is to expand on my understanding of the challenge facing you now, based on your report, and the choices that you now have to choose from. This should assist you in making your own decisions.

You are already aware that there is one option which is to settle for a fixed sum, and conclude the matter entirely.

You also have the option of pleading Guilty on the day given to you, or in advance to the Court in writing (unless the deadline has passed), which will result in a fine and almost definitely a costs order against you (plus 'Victim Surcharge'). The first two of these costs will probably both be more than £100 and, depending on the actual Offence which the Company believes can be proved with the Evidence they have, may lead to a Criminal Conviction which is recorded on the Police National Computer (PNC).

You have the option to plead Not Guilty to the Court, whether in writing (if the deadline has not passed) or in person on the date on the Summons, and if you do leave this until the date on the Summons, then another date will be set for a contested hearing, which means that proper time will be allowed for both parties to call their Witnesses to present their evidence, and for each party then to cross-examine the other's Witnesses; or, if it's agreed that it won't be necessary to cross-examine, then the evidence can simply be presented in writing. If you loose, then you would go on to present evidence of your income and any other personal circumstances which all helps the Magistrates to impose the correct Fine. Again, depending on the actual Offence you are charged with, this might lead to a Criminal Conviction on the (PNC). I get the impression that you don't have the expertise to confidently succeed in contesting a Prosecution by yourself, nor in arguing mitigation, so I would urge you to choose this option only with the help of a local Solicitor who regularly practices in Criminal Defence work. Under the rules of disclosure, your Solicitor would have the opportunity to examine the Evidence which the Company has to support their Prosecution and discuss with you where any significant factor could be challenged that would make a difference to the outcome in your favour. The costs of all the work and time involved in this option are considerable.
You will NOT be expected to confront 'those bullies' in Court unless you call them to cross-examine them on their Evidence.

The fourth option comes in a variety of forms - it is the Out-of-Court (OOC) settlement. Very many Railway ticketing offences are resolved in this way. You could attempt this yourself, but it is vital to remember that now that a Summons has been issued, there are now three parties involved who must all be included in all correspondence :- you, the Company (its Prosecutions Manager), the Court (the Clerk to the Magistrates); if you settle with the Company and don't involve the Court, then the Trial will still go ahead, which is a pointless outcome! You could try to settle by phone, but having now reached this stage where a Trial date has been set, a Prosecutor has been instructed, evidence has been collated, the Court Fee has been paid, and a Summons has been issued, then I wouldn't expect much chance of a settlement by phone now. You could plead Not Guilty by post, and then on the day on the Summons, arrive 30 minutes before the session and ask for a word with the Prosecutor out of Court, and make your offer there (though by that stage, an acceptable offer is likely to be more than the £100 currently suggested. Or, you could instruct a local Solicitor, again, one specialising in Criminal Defence work in the local Magistrates Court, to negotiate on your behalf, though if they succeed, and I expect that they would be able to reach some acceptable settlement as a final outcome without proceeding to a Trial, there will be a cost to you for their services.

As I indicated at the start, I won't get into a debate on here about the facts, the significance of mentioning 'Bolton', or the failure to buy a ticket before travel or before reaching the destination. but all of these facts WILL have been considered by the specialist 'revenue protection' staff of the Railway Company, and will be considered by the Court, and it seems to me that they are facts which are mostly already written in your own Witness Statement made on the day.

I'm guessing that this isn't exactly what you want to hear, but I do hope it helps you to decide what to do next, while you bear in mind all the details of your experiences with the Railway Company that they are likely to have on their files.

Good luck!

 

[thejuggler]

According to the National Rail website, Blackrod has ticket machines - were they not working, or was there some other reason why you did not use them?

Northern have installed a lot of ticket machines very recently. Evidence of a ticket machine now does not mean the station had one at the time of this incident.

I know of one station which has a ticket machine, but only on the entrance to one platform. Go directly to the other platform and you wouldn’t know.

You do have to check tickets though. A couple of weeks ago I was sold a ticket for the reverse of the journey I wanted.

 

[falcon]

You say-

"After all this he wrote a statement which I signed for him and then I left the station "

What did that statement say? in particular did it contain information showing that you disputed the fact that you had try to short fare and that you had been sold the incorrect ticket.

Also were you cautioned (you do not have to say anything bla bla....) at any point.

 

[Clip]

As an aside - is it common for people to say 'Blackrod,Bolton' when either saying this station or purchasing a ticket from a guard in the past?

 

[thealexweb]

According to the National Rail website, Blackrod has ticket machines - were they not working, or was there some other reason why you did not use them?

I believe the TVMs are card only. No options for using actual money.

 

[falcon]

What is the actual offence quoted on the summons?

 

[najaB]

I guess this is an example of commas being important. "Blackrod, Bolton" is quite clear when written, but less so when said. It could equally be heard as "Blackrod. <correction> Bolton."

As others have said, the main problem is that you didn't respond and engage earlier in the process.

 

[scrapy]

What is the actual offence quoted on the summons?

Agreed this would be very useful to know. The fact that you ignored a fixed penalty is not damming particularly if you plead not guilty however if you were given an opportunity by Arriva Northern to give your side to the story then this could be looked upon negatively if you didn't respond.

Blackrod station has a card only TVM which is quite prominent on the Manchester bound platform and certainly visible from the entrance. Was there any reason why you didn't or couldn't use it?

Did you pay cash or card for your ticket when you arrived in Manchester?

When i tried googling the story you referred to in the Bolton Evening News, I get several different articles including one from last week on 27th March where a man was successfully prosecuted for a very similar short fare (from Horwich asking for a ticket from Bolton) that Northern allege against you so I'd maybe read several of these stories and their outcomes rather than just one from 2015 to give you a better idea of your chances of success in court.

 

[xtradj]

Can I clarify something

You said blackrod Bolton and you were given a ticket from Bolton even though you travelled from blackrod? Ok easy mistake

But why would two inspectors then say why did you buy a ticket from Bolton when you travelled from blackrod

How would they know where you’ve traveled from?

Unless of course they heard you say black rod Bolton? In which case if they did then they’d have known the inspector has given you the wrong ticket as you clearly stated blackrod?