Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[Snex]

The problem with MAN EcoCity's is that MAN build very little now for the UK and its probably become hard to source spares for such a rare model, so its been decided simply to get rid, I doubt the BYD/Enviro E200MMC at Green Lane are at any risk as spares availability is plentiful currently and they may do a full service life, dependent on Battery availability as Batteries develop. More at risk are possibly the Volvo B5LH's when the batteries go, as they cost quite a bit of money to replace and they will probably all go with others in the batch, although the later batches with the Gemini 3 StreetDeck style are much better than those with the original Gemini style body.

I can't comment on Runcorn, but I believe the issue is the gas fuelling tanks need refurbishment work (10 years). It's become uneconomical to spend the money to do it though as the gas buses are more expensive to run after the price of gas has skyrocketed due to the Ukraine / Russia war. Stagecoach at Sunderland are having similar problems and they are in the process of withdrawing them there aswell.

 

[daodao]

What is the likely impact of bus franchising in Merseyside (announced today) on Arriva's significant bus operation in this region?

 

[MasterSpenny]

What is the likely impact of bus franchising in Merseyside (announced today) on Arriva's significant bus operation in this region?

Probably a huge amount of losses, depending on what happens with the buy out of the company

 

[WAB]

Probably a huge amount of losses, depending on what happens with the buy out of the company

It'll go some way to replacing the oldest vehicles in the other Arriva areas...

 

[pm2304877]

As long as Go Ahead, Mobico, or the LCRCA does the buyout. No management buy outs they are total poison after Glenvale and Yellow Buses in Bournemouth.
First were "last" ( a local word for losers) and Stagecoach are too large and I'm not certain about the monopoly rules with franchising.

 

[bussnapperwm]

As long as Go Ahead, Mobico, or the LCRCA does the buyout. No management buy outs they are total poison after Glenvale and Yellow Buses in Bournemouth.
First were "last" ( a local word for losers) and Stagecoach are too large and I'm not certain about the monopoly rules with franchising.

To be fair, Abellio UK is now a MBO after the directors brought Abellio out

 

[M803UYA]

As long as Go Ahead, Mobico, or the LCRCA does the buyout. No management buy outs they are total poison after Glenvale and Yellow Buses in Bournemouth.
First were "last" ( a local word for losers) and Stagecoach are too large and I'm not certain about the monopoly rules with franchising.

I'm not sure your opinion is going to be listened to by DB who will be selling.... I don't understand what your issue is with a management buyout as there's been many over the years, fairly successfully.

 

[Deerfold]

As long as Go Ahead, Mobico, or the LCRCA does the buyout. No management buy outs they are total poison after Glenvale and Yellow Buses in Bournemouth.
First were "last" ( a local word for losers) and Stagecoach are too large and I'm not certain about the monopoly rules with franchising.

Glenvale was a mess before the sale.

Wilt and Dorset (morebus) was also a management buyout before selling to Go Ahead. It seemed to manage quite well for 16 years.

 

[dvfmlfc]

What is the likely impact of bus franchising in Merseyside (announced today) on Arriva's significant bus operation in this region?

Arriva (and Stagecoach) have welcomed it. Two things occur to me 1) Arriva must be very confident of securing franchised services, or 2) Arriva's Merseyside operations will be someone else's problem by the due-date in 2026, so current management don't really care.....

 

[Cesarcollie]

Glenvale was a mess before the sale.

Wilt and Dorset (morebus) was also a management buyout before selling to Go Ahead. It seemed to manage quite well for 16 years.

Many bus companies have been MBOs at some point, later selling out to larger groups. To name a few - Centrewest, London United, London General, Metroline, Eastern National, Eastern Counties, East Kent, Western Travel, Cambus, Midland Red West….. there are loads! Wellglade (Trent Barton) are also an MBO. Most were/are very successful.

 

[dvfmlfc]

Glenvale was a mess before the sale.

Wilt and Dorset (morebus) was also a management buyout before selling to Go Ahead. It seemed to manage quite well for 16 years.

Glenvale couldn't afford the repayments on the then new-ish fleet at Gillmoss depot, so Arriva hived them off with 20+ year old Metrobuses. Glenvale subsequently bought in more clapped-out ex-London Titans, and unwanted B6s and Darts from Stagecoach. It was heartbreaking to be honest.

 

[M803UYA]

Wilt and Dorset (morebus) was also a management buyout before selling to Go Ahead. It seemed to manage quite well for 16 years.

So unsuccessful in fact that Go Ahead paid a hefty sum to acquire it 20 years ago from the management team who bought it from National Bus Company. Quite a lot of the privatised companies went to management buyouts- some were quite successful as well and survived a very long time.

Arriva didn't begin that way of course, it was the bus operating division of Rentokil that bought two companies from National Bus, which was added to, then merged with Cowie Group in the mid 1990s. The name was chosen as the word Arriva is non offensive in all languages - unlike their bus operations which are a byword for poor quality, constant cost cutting and a fleet that a scrap dealer would be extremely proud of.

I recall reading the June 1997 edition of Buses magazine when I was fairly youthful and there was a John Cash article on his time running what was C Line in Macclesfield. It was one of a series of articles intended to be autobiographical. I worked for Arriva almost 20 years after that and readily related to most of the observations in that article - the company has been run in the same chaotic cost cutting manner for what seems to be most of it's time in business.

Whilst there were some 'decent' operating companies within the group, overall the entire operation suffers from the same disease of knowing the value of everything and the price of nothing. Fleet replacement is well behind and the best performing routes do not receive new vehicles. In the company I worked in, the only person making profits was the local recovery company, who could afford to operate American big-rig underlift wreckers (Kenworth/Peterbilt/Western Star etc) which had their fuel consumption measured in gallons per mile (rather than miles per gallon). They had very nice lorries, which I could see from my office window twice a day and the fleet was well utilised.

Nicely for me they'd alternate the vehicles coming in so I could see the entire fleet across the working week. More depressing to be able to keep notes of which buses were being towed in, sometimes they were consecutive tow-in's as well! As in, workshop hadn't fixed the problem and just returned the vehicle for allocation the morning after.

 

[Deerfold]

Arriva didn't begin that way of course, it was the bus operating division of Rentokil that bought two companies from National Bus, which was added to, then merged with Cowie Group in the mid 1990s. The name was chosen as the word Arriva is non offensive in all languages - unlike their bus operations which are a byword for poor quality, constant cost cutting and a fleet that a scrap dealer would be extremely proud of.

In the UK, that's certainly true, but I've caught buses run by Arriva subsidiaries in various European countries which have been high quality.

 

[Roilshead]

Arriva didn't begin that way of course, it was the bus operating division of Rentokil that bought two companies from National Bus

Drawlane Ltd was indeed a subsidiary of a company involved in the cleaning business, Salisbury-based Endless Holdings Ltd, but I don't think there was any connection between that privately-owned company and FTSE100-listed Rentokil-Initial PLC. Drawlane Ltd acquired four companies in the NBC provatisation: Lonson Country (South West), Midland Red North, North Western, and Shamrock & Rambler.

 

[pm2304877]

Drawlane Ltd was indeed a subsidiary of a company involved in the cleaning business, Salisbury-based Endless Holdings Ltd, but I don't think there was any connection between that privately-owned company and FTSE100-listed Rentokil-Initial PLC. Drawlane Ltd acquired four companies in the NBC provatisation: Lonson Country (South West), Midland Red North, North Western, and Shamrock & Rambler.

Management buyouts involve individuals mortgaged to the max.
So they sell out in order to get the wolf from the door. Either that or lose everything. Bus operation is high risk because most customers are from the poorer end of society .

So Arriva could have been Rentokil Buses? There's a joke there somewhere!

 

[M803UYA]

Management buyouts involve individuals mortgaged to the max.
So they sell out in order to get the wolf from the door. Either that or lose everything. Bus operation is high risk because most customers are from the poorer end of society .

Don't see how - surely all small bus/coach operators are in that financial position too.....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Don't see how - surely all small bus/coach operators are in that financial position too.....

Isn't that how Badgerline began as an MBO?

Surely Stagecoach and Rotala required their founders to secure funds?

 

[M803UYA]

Isn't that how Badgerline began as an MBO?

Surely Stagecoach and Rotala required their founders to secure funds?

You've hit it on the head. That's why I'm struggling to understand the OP's position on MBOs..... pretty much all of the UK Bus industry was either started from nothing, or was at one point or another a management buyout of an existing business!

 

[GusB]

The discussion about Management Buyouts is also getting rather off-topic. Could we stick with the topic of Arriva, please?

 

[WAB]

Deutsche Bahn nears sale of red London bus operator Arriva

International transport group with strong UK presence being pursued by investor I Squared

www.ft.com

Deutsche Bahn nears sale of red London bus operator

Infrastructure investor I Squared Capital is near a deal to buy Deutsche Bahn’s international transport business Arriva, one of the biggest operators of red London buses and train services in the UK. A deal to buy the company, which transports 1.5bn rail and bus passengers a year and runs operations in 10 countries, could come within days, according to people briefed on the matter. The deal would value Arriva at about €1.6bn including debt, some of the people said, cautioning that the deal has not been finalised and the timing could still shift. Deutsche Bahn, the German state-owned railway company, has been trying to offload at least part of Arriva for years to raise cash to lower its debt and invest in its ailing domestic operations, and had considered a partial sale as early as 2016.[...] The unit is barely profitable, generating an adjusted operating profit of just €12mn last year, up from an operating loss of €73mn in 2021. The company has shed some of its businesses and pulled out of countries including Denmark, Serbia and Sweden following a strategic review to “refocus” the business in 2020 and 2021. The expected transaction would come amid a series of transport deals that have seen some of the UK’s biggest listed rail and bus companies taken private. I Squared Capital is a global long-term investor in various sectors such as energy and telecommunications in addition to transportation. It has made previous acquisitions in the sector such as the 2018 deal for trailer leasing firm TIP. The group’s executives have said they see an opportunity in areas such as the electrification of urban transportation. I Squared made an effort to buy the UK’s First Group last year, though a £1.23bn bid for the rail and bus operator was rejected as “significantly undervaluing” the company. Go-Ahead accepted a takeover bid of roughly £650mn from an Australian bus operator backed by international pension funds in June 2022. And separately on Thursday, Go-Ahead announced the sale of its German rail business to Austria’s state railway ÖBB, without disclosing financial details.

 

[Blindtraveler]

One to watch

 

[RELL6L]

I have held off for some time before reporting to give Arriva a chance to get through teething problems with the new timetables at High Wycombe. But they have not. The problems seem to be (1) unachievable timetables with complex interworking and insufficient resilience for the delays which affect the area and (2) shortage of vehicles. There may be a shortage of drivers but not really evidence of this. There is also some odd decision making.

Starting with the 800/850 they are really letting down some important markets.

From Henley and Marlow into High Wycombe for a 9am start there are arrivals due at 8.00 and 8.35. So You would head for the 8.35 arrival – the 850 which leaves Reading at 7.00. Not if you need to be on time – it is almost always a minimum of 20 minutes late arriving in High Wycombe, sometimes more. This carries a very heavy school load from Henley to Marlow, at least 40 get on in central Henley and it seems to be about the top priority for a double decker. The allocated journey time is quite insufficient, it is usually at least 10 minutes late arriving at Henley and (unlike the old timetable) has no recovery time there.

Then there is the farce which is the 800 leaving Wycombe at 15.30, then the 850 leaving Reading at 17.15. This journey runs off the 11 which leaves Penn at 14.58 and is due into Wycombe at 15.25. This gets badly held up by school traffic in Hazlemere and, over the last three weeks, has consistently arrived at Wycombe between 20 and 40 minutes late. The 800 journey at 15.30 is the one which would take many of the same Henley schoolchildren back home, the 800 does usually run but is between 30 and 40 minutes late. The previous departure from Wycombe, the 850 at 15.00, is almost always on time. The 800 at 15.30 is followed by the 850 at 16.00 which also runs off the next 11 from Penn but this is usually much less late. So the 800 then arrives in Reading usually between 17.35 and 17.55 (due 17.15). Then it supposed to form the 850 leaving at 17.15. This is a key peak hour departure on an hourly service to Twyford and Wargrave before meeting up again with the 800 at Henley. But this almost never runs at all, usually it goes back empty to the depot! In the last two weeks, on 3 October the 15.30 from Wycombe was run by a different bus from the incoming 11 and was roughly on time, on 4 October the 17.15 left Reading 56 minutes late, every other day the 850 has not run at all. Bizarrely yesterday it ran empty from Reading, got as far as the edge of Maidenhead, then turned left and ran to Henley, so missing out the unique 850 section, then resumed service in Henley back to Wycombe just 16 minutes late – and 4 minutes ahead of the following 800 – pointless! Why does this this come back empty from Reading so often – is there a drivers’ hours issue?

Now the vehicles. They need 28 and there are 34 allocated – 3 Streetlites, 1 SB180, 12 Versas, 12 Citaros and 6 assorted deckers.

The Streetlites mainly work the 3 which needs 2 buses and one runs elsewhere, except that the Streetlites seem incredibly flaky. Take 2325. On Monday it ran from 10.45-10.51. Tuesday not at all. Wednesday 9.36 from Maidenhead before failing at Flackwell Heath at 11.30, out from 13.40 until failing at 14.27, out from 16.38 before failing at 16.48, out again at 19.15. Thursday it was out for 6.22 but didn’t start its first journey, then out from 9.48 to 9.55, out again at 16.30. Today it started at 6.00 but seems to have given up by 7.30. The others seem a little better but are often off the road.

The unusual 2790, the SB180/MCV, seems pretty reliable.

There are 12 Versas. One, 2979, has been off the road since August. It is rare that all the others are out and usually one has given up by mid morning. Today 2952 and 2982 are not out and 2955 seems to have failed before starting the 8.00 service 13 to Totteridge.

There are 12 Citaros and they seem to be the most reliable vehicles. However 3007 has been off the road for a month, 3009 appears to have broken down on 6 October and 3013 last night.

The deckers are not very reliable. 4749, the DAF Gemini hasn’t been out since 30 September. The B9TLs vary, 4212 was off the road for a week, made it back yesterday for about an hour and a half and is off again today. The E400s seem a little better but do not run all the time.

So now, Friday morning, the fleet is missing 1 Streetlite, 4 Versas, 3 Citaros and 2 deckers, that’s 10. There are only 6 spares (fleet 34, PVR 28) so four boards must be missing. There are seven boards on the 2/12, one or two are usually missing, one hasn’t run at all since 3 October (eg 2 departs Wycombe at 11.30), today there are two consecutive boards missing. The 3 should have two buses out all day, often only one is running. The 10/13 should have four boards, some days they do, some days its three, today it looks like only two. The 5/6/7 should have five boards and as the Maidenhead section is only hourly this does do better but sometimes these are missing too – on Tuesday three trips to Maidenhead were missed. The 11/800/850 have nine boards and most journeys do run until the evening peak when things go wrong – eg on Monday only one of the four departures from Reading between 17.00 and 19.00 ran and there was a 3 hour gap in the 850 from Henley to Reading after the 15.45. The final board is on the 4 during the day, this usually runs.

Update, 2325 now restarted at 10.00 and 2982 has come out but 2955 is still off, so two missing. Also 4211 has been at High Wycombe Bus Station for an hour, which isn’t what is supposed to happen. I don’t know if they are short of drivers too!

Whichever way you look at it, the current Arriva service reliability at High Wycombe is way short of an acceptable service and will just drive people away. Compare to Carousel, also in Wycombe. They now have more buses out than Arriva. Looks like 9 for the 1s, 16 for the 41/101-107 set, 2 for the 581/583, 5 for the 8/X8,27,28,38/39,275 and a handful more for schools and Pick-me-up. Some get a break between peak hours, which nothing at Arriva seems to. Carousel also struggle with the same traffic as Arriva but far fewer journeys, odd breakdowns excepted, seem to get cancelled.

Elsewhere the transfer of the 150 from Aylesbury to Milton Keynes has, it now seems clear, included the transfer of two E400s, 4400 and 4401. They didn’t track for weeks but are now tracking on two of the three 150 boards, the ones that include the 250 school service. This reintroduces double deckers to Milton Keynes after a short break.

UPDATING

2325 was off from 12.35. It restarted work again at 17.36 but gave up three minutes later!
2955 has been off since 8.00
2957 died at 16.52
3020 died at Penn at 15.56
3027 died at Reading at 15.05 but appears to have tracked at just one location on the way back so maybe not
4211 was off from 10.09 to 16.00
5458 has run the 15.30 service 800 from Wycombe to Reading, leaving at 16.00 and arriving Reading 49 minutes late. It has gone off line and does not appear to be running back as the 17.15 service 850, even though the 18.15 won't run either (as the 16.30 800 didn't run, should have been 3020).
AWFUL!

 

[Andy Pacer]

I have held off for some time before reporting to give Arriva a chance to get through teething problems with the new timetables at High Wycombe. But they have not. The problems seem to be (1) unachievable timetables with complex interworking and insufficient resilience for the delays which affect the area and (2) shortage of vehicles. There may be a shortage of drivers but not really evidence of this. There is also some odd decision making.

Starting with the 800/850 they are really letting down some important markets.

From Henley and Marlow into High Wycombe for a 9am start there are arrivals due at 8.00 and 8.35. So You would head for the 8.35 arrival – the 850 which leaves Reading at 7.00. Not if you need to be on time – it is almost always a minimum of 20 minutes late arriving in High Wycombe, sometimes more. This carries a very heavy school load from Henley to Marlow, at least 40 get on in central Henley and it seems to be about the top priority for a double decker. The allocated journey time is quite insufficient, it is usually at least 10 minutes late arriving at Henley and (unlike the old timetable) has no recovery time there.

Then there is the farce which is the 800 leaving Wycombe at 15.30, then the 850 leaving Reading at 17.15. This journey runs off the 11 which leaves Penn at 14.58 and is due into Wycombe at 15.25. This gets badly held up by school traffic in Hazlemere and, over the last three weeks, has consistently arrived at Wycombe between 20 and 40 minutes late. The 800 journey at 15.30 is the one which would take many of the same Henley schoolchildren back home, the 800 does usually run but is between 30 and 40 minutes late. The previous departure from Wycombe, the 850 at 15.00, is almost always on time. The 800 at 15.30 is followed by the 850 at 16.00 which also runs off the next 11 from Penn but this is usually much less late. So the 800 then arrives in Reading usually between 17.35 and 17.55 (due 17.15). Then it supposed to form the 850 leaving at 17.15. This is a key peak hour departure on an hourly service to Twyford and Wargrave before meeting up again with the 800 at Henley. But this almost never runs at all, usually it goes back empty to the depot! In the last two weeks, on 3 October the 15.30 from Wycombe was run by a different bus from the incoming 11 and was roughly on time, on 4 October the 17.15 left Reading 56 minutes late, every other day the 850 has not run at all. Bizarrely yesterday it ran empty from Reading, got as far as the edge of Maidenhead, then turned left and ran to Henley, so missing out the unique 850 section, then resumed service in Henley back to Wycombe just 16 minutes late – and 4 minutes ahead of the following 800 – pointless! Why does this this come back empty from Reading so often – is there a drivers’ hours issue?

Now the vehicles. They need 28 and there are 34 allocated – 3 Streetlites, 1 SB180, 12 Versas, 12 Citaros and 6 assorted deckers.

The Streetlites mainly work the 3 which needs 2 buses and one runs elsewhere, except that the Streetlites seem incredibly flaky. Take 2325. On Monday it ran from 10.45-10.51. Tuesday not at all. Wednesday 9.36 from Maidenhead before failing at Flackwell Heath at 11.30, out from 13.40 until failing at 14.27, out from 16.38 before failing at 16.48, out again at 19.15. Thursday it was out for 6.22 but didn’t start its first journey, then out from 9.48 to 9.55, out again at 16.30. Today it started at 6.00 but seems to have given up by 7.30. The others seem a little better but are often off the road.

The unusual 2790, the SB180/MCV, seems pretty reliable.

There are 12 Versas. One, 2979, has been off the road since August. It is rare that all the others are out and usually one has given up by mid morning. Today 2952 and 2982 are not out and 2955 seems to have failed before starting the 8.00 service 13 to Totteridge.

There are 12 Citaros and they seem to be the most reliable vehicles. However 3007 has been off the road for a month, 3009 appears to have broken down on 6 October and 3013 last night.

The deckers are not very reliable. 4749, the DAF Gemini hasn’t been out since 30 September. The B9TLs vary, 4212 was off the road for a week, made it back yesterday for about an hour and a half and is off again today. The E400s seem a little better but do not run all the time.

So now, Friday morning, the fleet is missing 1 Streetlite, 4 Versas, 3 Citaros and 2 deckers, that’s 10. There are only 6 spares (fleet 34, PVR 28) so four boards must be missing. There are seven boards on the 2/12, one or two are usually missing, one hasn’t run at all since 3 October (eg 2 departs Wycombe at 11.30), today there are two consecutive boards missing. The 3 should have two buses out all day, often only one is running. The 10/13 should have four boards, some days they do, some days its three, today it looks like only two. The 5/6/7 should have five boards and as the Maidenhead section is only hourly this does do better but sometimes these are missing too – on Tuesday three trips to Maidenhead were missed. The 11/800/850 have nine boards and most journeys do run until the evening peak when things go wrong – eg on Monday only one of the four departures from Reading between 17.00 and 19.00 ran and there was a 3 hour gap in the 850 from Henley to Reading after the 15.45. The final board is on the 4 during the day, this usually runs.

Update, 2325 now restarted at 10.00 and 2982 has come out but 2955 is still off, so two missing. Also 4211 has been at High Wycombe Bus Station for an hour, which isn’t what is supposed to happen. I don’t know if they are short of drivers too!

Whichever way you look at it, the current Arriva service reliability at High Wycombe is way short of an acceptable service and will just drive people away. Compare to Carousel, also in Wycombe. They now have more buses out than Arriva. Looks like 9 for the 1s, 16 for the 41/101-107 set, 2 for the 581/583, 5 for the 8/X8,27,28,38/39,275 and a handful more for schools and Pick-me-up. Some get a break between peak hours, which nothing at Arriva seems to. Carousel also struggle with the same traffic as Arriva but far fewer journeys, odd breakdowns excepted, seem to get cancelled.

Elsewhere the transfer of the 150 from Aylesbury to Milton Keynes has, it now seems clear, included the transfer of two E400s, 4400 and 4401. They didn’t track for weeks but are now tracking on two of the three 150 boards, the ones that include the 250 school service. This reintroduces double deckers to Milton Keynes after a short break.

UPDATING

2325 was off from 12.35. It restarted work again at 17.36 but gave up three minutes later!
2955 has been off since 8.00
2957 died at 16.52
3020 died at Penn at 15.56
3027 died at Reading at 15.05 but appears to have tracked at just one location on the way back so maybe not
4211 was off from 10.09 to 16.00
5458 has run the 15.30 service 800 from Wycombe to Reading, leaving at 16.00 and arriving Reading 49 minutes late. It has gone off line and does not appear to be running back as the 17.15 service 850, even though the 18.15 won't run either (as the 16.30 800 didn't run, should have been 3020).
AWFUL!

Just out of interest are you basing your assumptions that buses "died" on tracking data from "bustimes.org" as opposed to hard facts?

 

[RELL6L]

Just out of interest are you basing your assumptions that buses "died" on tracking data from "bustimes.org" as opposed to hard facts?

Fair point, I failed to mention the usual caveat about BusTimes, nothing from yesterday was confirmed by observation. However the tracking here is pretty reliable and failures are often addressed by sending out replacements when possible. For example last night 2958 was sent out to take up the 850 leaving Reading at 18.15- but only from Earley so I’m not sure what the point was.

The only one I have some doubt about is 2325, it seems to stop tracking so often it may be a tracking problem.

I see a spare also went out yesterday afternoon, not sure if this was a spare bus or a spare ticket machine on an existing vehicle.

 

[markymark2000]

I couldn't find a more relevant, open thread to post this in but I thought some would be interested to know. Arriva has decided that it wants to do things differently to everyone else and has lovingly decided on 6 monthly fare increases it seems.

Southern Counties fares only went up back in April and now they are due to increase again next week. Absolutely bonkers. Too many links to provide as Arriva has separated each fare increase into a separate news article but all of their articles are linked here: https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news?page=1

 

[Simon75]

Last week i was in Chatham, and I travelled briefly on a 02 plate double decker,then saw at the waterfront bus station a 04 plate double decker

 

[londonteacher]

ly on a 02 plate double decker

The only 02 plate double decker that Arriva Kent has is based on routes in Maidstone. 6136.

As for the 04 plate, there are many of them at Gillingham.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Sum of the zero four plate deckers are now proving more reliable than the 15 or 16 plate e400 that were bought new for the one zero one no longer sapphire

 

[duncombec]

Last week i was in Chatham, and I travelled briefly on a 02 plate double decker,then saw at the waterfront bus station a 04 plate double decker

The only 02 plate double decker that Arriva Kent has is based on routes in Maidstone. 6136.

As for the 04 plate, there are many of them at Gillingham.

I believe 6136 is, or at least was, based at Tunbridge Wells, although often appears in Maidstone as it is used a lot on the 6 and 7 pair of services between the towns. There are 9 of the 64** -04- plate Volvos still in service at Gillingham the moment, with a few more in various states of reserve.

Perhaps Simon75 could give us more information as to the -02- plate decker travelled on in Chatham, e.g. type, as there aren't any with any of the local bus operators in the Medway Towns that I can think of (ASD, Arriva, Chalkwell or Nu-Venture).

 

[Llandudno]

I couldn't find a more relevant, open thread to post this in but I thought some would be interested to know. Arriva has decided that it wants to do things differently to everyone else and has lovingly decided on 6 monthly fare increases it seems.

Southern Counties fares only went up back in April and now they are due to increase again next week. Absolutely bonkers. Too many links to provide as Arriva has separated each fare increase into a separate news article but all of their articles are linked here: https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/latest-news?page=1

I guess the plan is to sneak as many fare increases in as possible whilst the £2 fare cap is in place, so very few passengers will be affected.

It will then be up to Sir Keir to keep or scrap the fare cap from January 2025….