Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[cnjb8]

Once Arriva close Guildford, they will be largely absent from areas west and south west of London. From what I can tell, if we look at everywhere beyond Greater London reached by a direct train from Waterloo, we will only see Arriva buses in Epsom and Reading. These are route 166 to Croydon, which could be lost to another operator through future TfL route tendering, and routes 800 & 850 to High Wycombe resoectively.

This list might not be comprehensive, but the following Arriva bus operations will have been divested or closed:-

Scotland West - now McGills

Berwick - now part of WCM Borders Buses (although Arriva still reach Berwick from Newcastle)
Hexham - now part of Go North East (although Arriva still run some journeys on route 685 from Newcastle to Carlisle via Hexham)
Yorkshire Tiger - now Transdev Team Pennine

Gillmoss - now part of Stagecoach (although Arriva still serve much of the area)

Wardle Transport - now part of Centrebus D&G
Cannock - now part of Centrebus D&G
Burton - now part of Midland Classic (although Arriva still reach Burton from Derby)
Wednesbury - formerly Midland, now part of Rotala Diamond (although Arriva still reach Wolverhampton from Bridgnorth)

Crawley & Horsham - now part of Go-Ahead Metrobus
Guildford - soon to close, mainly replaced by additional Stagecoach services

They have also pulled out of parts of Cheshire, north Surrey and Aberystwyth, with services replaced by a mixture of other operators

Small correction but really not a big deal, Arriva reach Burton from Leicester too

 

[Andy Pacer]

Small correction but really not a big deal, Arriva reach Burton from Leicester too

They don't actually. The 29/29A run as far as Swadlincote, not Burton.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Small correction but really not a big deal, Arriva reach Burton from Leicester too

Isn't it now cut back to Swad?

 

[317 forever]

They don't actually. The 29/29A run as far as Swadlincote, not Burton.

I was in the area in March and saw those routes terminate at Swadlincote. I did a Google search and bustimes indicated this service does indeed only reach Swadlincote. I checked whether it reaches Burton during the evenings or Sundays but evidently not.

Picking up on my original list, I wonder whether Arriva could divest or close any other operation soon?

 

[Robertj21a]

Once Arriva close Guildford, they will be largely absent from areas west and south west of London. From what I can tell, if we look at everywhere beyond Greater London reached by a direct train from Waterloo, we will only see Arriva buses in Epsom and Reading. These are route 166 to Croydon, which could be lost to another operator through future TfL route tendering, and routes 800 & 850 to High Wycombe resoectively.

This list might not be comprehensive, but the following Arriva bus operations will have been divested or closed:-

Scotland West - now McGills

Berwick - now part of WCM Borders Buses (although Arriva still reach Berwick from Newcastle)
Hexham - now part of Go North East (although Arriva still run some journeys on route 685 from Newcastle to Carlisle via Hexham)
Yorkshire Tiger - now Transdev Team Pennine

Gillmoss - now part of Stagecoach (although Arriva still serve much of the area)

Wardle Transport - now part of Centrebus D&G
Cannock - now part of Centrebus D&G
Burton - now part of Midland Classic (although Arriva still reach Burton from Derby)
Wednesbury - formerly Midland, now part of Rotala Diamond (although Arriva still reach Wolverhampton from Bridgnorth)

Crawley & Horsham - now part of Go-Ahead Metrobus
Guildford - soon to close, mainly replaced by additional Stagecoach services

They have also pulled out of parts of Cheshire, north Surrey and Aberystwyth, with services replaced by a mixture of other operators

Haven't they also reduced a bit around Sheerness (and Sevenoaks?)

 

[MotCO]

Looking at it the other way, are there any areas where Arfiva have actually expanded? If not, whither Arriva?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They have also pulled out of parts of Cheshire, north Surrey and Aberystwyth, with services replaced by a mixture of other operators

To be honest, that's rather glossing over things.

They have essentially closed/sold all of the former London & Country/Guildford & West Surrey operations with the depots at Guildford, Crawley, Cranleigh, Woking, Merstham, and Warnham all now disappearing. According to wiki, that was a fleet of over 400 vehicles - all gone.

Similarly, they didn't merely pull out of Aberystwyth; they have vacated all of mid Wales so the outstations/sub depots at Lampeter, Machynlleth, Abermule and Dolgellau all going, more recently followed by Pwllheli.

They also pulled out of Lincolnshire with the closure of Ryhall, and most of North Yorkshire in Hambleton/Richmondshire with all their operations going with the closure of Richmond and Stokesley depots. In the case of the latter, where once a depot existed, the only presence is now an hourly service from Middlesbrough.

Even where they still do operate, such as in Co Durham, the retrenchment has been such that networks are now skeletal in places like Bishop Auckland and Peterlee.

 

[Typhoon]

Haven't they also reduced a bit around Sheerness (and Sevenoaks?)

The Sheerness outstation is closed but they still operate in on the 334 from Maidstone. They surrendered the Sheppey services (requires about 5 buses) to Chalkwell.

The former London Country garage near Sevenoaks (Dunton Green) closed years ago. A few routes have been surrendered over the years, most recently 306/8, before that the services running to the villages. They still retain the 402 which runs to Tunbridge Wells (and is operated from there) and its Sunday equivalent, the 401. The village services were no great loss because of the dead running and competition from Go-Coach.

 

[Surreyman]

To be honest, that's rather glossing over things.

They have essentially closed/sold all of the former London & Country/Guildford & West Surrey operations with the depots at Guildford, Crawley, Cranleigh, Woking, Merstham, and Warnham all now disappearing. According to wiki, that was a fleet of over 400 vehicles - all gone.

Similarly, they didn't merely pull out of Aberystwyth; they have vacated all of mid Wales so the outstations/sub depots at Lampeter, Machynlleth, Abermule and Dolgellau all going, more recently followed by Pwllheli.

They also pulled out of Lincolnshire with the closure of Ryhall, and most of North Yorkshire in Hambleton/Richmondshire with all their operations going with the closure of Richmond and Stokesley depots. In the case of the latter, where once a depot existed, the only presence is now an hourly service from Middlesbrough.

Even where they still do operate, such as in Co Durham, the retrenchment has been such that networks are now skeletal in places like Bishop Auckland and Peterlee.

Presumably some of the most recent closures/scale backs are maybe down to 'clearing the decks' for a future sale by DB?
I noted that recent accounts for Arriva in the south east had a loss of @ £4m, no way of telling how or where exactly but maybe the closures of Sheerness & Guildford are a pointer?

 

[cnjb8]

They don't actually. The 29/29A run as far as Swadlincote, not Burton.

Isn't it now cut back to Swad?

Oh, my apologies. Last time I saw the 29 was in Burton

 

[43055]

Oh, my apologies. Last time I saw the 29 was in Burton

I think it was quietly dropped in early 2020. Before then it was only hourly with the other terminating in Swad. Probably won't return to Burton now Midland Classic run the 9 every half hour to Ashby.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think it was quietly dropped in early 2020. Before then it was only hourly with the other terminating in Swad. Probably won't return to Burton now Midland Classic run the 9 every half hour to Ashby.

I think that's a return to how it was in the mid-1990s. I think after the privatisation of Midland Fox and the sale of Swad depot to Stevensons as part of the deal, the route (118?) went from Leicester to Swad (operated by Coalville depot).

 

[Andy Pacer]

I think that's a return to how it was in the mid-1990s. I think after the privatisation of Midland Fox and the sale of Swad depot to Stevensons as part of the deal, the route (118?) went from Leicester to Swad (operated by Coalville depot).

Yes for many years the 118 just went to Swadlincote (although there was a short spell when it went to Burton). For most of the time the 3 PVR was split between Midland Fox at Coalville (2 buses) and Stevensons at Swadlincote (1 bus).

 

[317 forever]

Looking at it the other way, are there any areas where Arfiva have actually expanded? If not, whither Arriva?

They have recently expanded in Widnes due to the collapse of Halton Transport. They also took over the Wrexham - Rhyl route (and potentially others) following the collapse of GHA Coaches.

There are additionally ad-hoc routes and towns that have been withdrawn from the Arriva network. Arriva used to reach Hastings from Maidstone & Hawkhurst and Sheffield from Bradford for example.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes for many years the 118 just went to Swadlincote (although there was a short spell when it went to Burton). For most of the time the 3 PVR was split between Midland Fox at Coalville (2 buses) and Stevensons at Swadlincote (1 bus).

Thanks for that. I'd forgotten Stevos still had a board on that. Was there a Sunday variant (218?) - can't recall if that went to Burton or not?


On the wider Arriva, as I alluded to, it's not merely that they have vacated territory but even in the areas where they still operate, services have declined at an alarming rate. If you look at the North Wales coast, the depots are a shadow of their former selves; Rhyl has about 50 vehicles and that's despite getting some work when Llandudno closed (IIRC) whilst Bangor has about 60 and, I think, that includes the Llandudno outstation.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Thanks for that. I'd forgotten Stevos still had a board on that. Was there a Sunday variant (218?) - can't recall if that went to Burton or not?

Yes Sunday 217/218 operated by Coalville using Mercedes 709Ds, was a Leicestershire County Council tender picking up various areas of outer Leicester that didn't have a commercial Sunday service. The 217 ran out as far as Ashby with the 218 terminating at Swadlincote.

 

[Robertj21a]

They have recently expanded in Widnes due to the collapse of Halton Transport. They also took over the Wrexham - Rhyl route (and potentially others) following the collapse of GHA Coaches.

There are additionally ad-hoc routes and towns that have been withdrawn from the Arriva network. Arriva used to reach Hastings from Maidstone & Hawkhurst and Sheffield from Bradford for example.

Hasn't Arriva also turned up in Rugby nowadays ?

 

[317 forever]

Hasn't Arriva also turned up in Rugby nowadays ?

Oh yes, on route X84 from Leicester via Lutterworth. I think this might be the replacement for a Travel De Courcey service.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Oh yes, on route X84 from Leicester via Lutterworth. I think this might be the replacement for a Travel De Courcey service.

Though wasn't that a service that they had already given up once - the X40?

 

[Deerfold]

Thanks for that. I'd forgotten Stevos still had a board on that. Was there a Sunday variant (218?) - can't recall if that went to Burton or not?


On the wider Arriva, as I alluded to, it's not merely that they have vacated territory but even in the areas where they still operate, services have declined at an alarming rate. If you look at the North Wales coast, the depots are a shadow of their former selves; Rhyl has about 50 vehicles and that's despite getting some work when Llandudno closed (IIRC) whilst Bangor has about 60 and, I think, that includes the Llandudno outstation.

Quite - as recently as the early 2000s Arriva ran the 223, 224, 226, 227, 278, 279, X23 out of Halifax, all hourly except the 227 (evenings, Sundays) and X23 (peak journeys) - just the 255 is left, an amalgam of the 223 and 226. In Elland they used to run the 225 (hourly), X25 (peak) and a local network of mostly hourly routes.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Oh yes, on route X84 from Leicester via Lutterworth. I think this might be the replacement for a Travel De Courcey service.

Though wasn't that a service that they had already given up once - the X40?

Nothing to do with De Courcey, it was the Woods Coaches 140, which then became Centrebus.
When Arriva re-acquired the Hinckley operation it became the X44, and latterly the X84.

 

[317 forever]

I wonder whether these cutbacks and divestments could cause Arriva to fall behind Go-Ahead across the country as a whole in terms of total number of buses in the UK?

 

[Andyh82]

I wonder whether these cutbacks and divestments could cause Arriva to fall behind Go-Ahead across the country as a whole in terms of total number of buses in the UK?

If the numbers on the relevant corporate websites are correct, they already are

 

[bussnapperwm]

Coach & Bus Week reports that the 758 service is to be withdrawn. (Also on the Green Line twitter

https://t.co/rpTykcvUM8

https://t.co/fWtKAw3322

Arriva has announced that it will cease operating @GreenLineUK services between Hemel Hempstead and London, with last day of service being 4/12/2021. A decline in passengers numbers prior to COVID-19, and no sign of them increasing now has been the reason given.

Greenline 758 Removal of Service

It is with great regret that Arriva intends to cease operating Green Line services between Hemel Hempstead and London Victoria, with last day of service being 4th December 2021.

 

[Flange Squeal]

The replacement 91 and 436 registrations that Diamond South East put in to replace Arriva have, unsurprisingly given the news from Stagecoach and Falcon about taking on those routes respectively, now been cancelled.

91: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/586794/

Registration history​

Reg No.	Var No.	Status	Application type	Date received	Date effective	End date
PK1135862/31	1	Cancelled	Manual	04 Nov 2021	04 Jan 2022
PK1135862/31	0	Registered	Manual	05 Oct 2021	04 Jan 2022

436: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/586795/

Registration history​

Reg No.	Var No.	Status	Application type	Date received	Date effective	End date
PK1135862/32	1	Cancelled	Manual	04 Nov 2021	04 Jan 2022
PK1135862/32	0	Registered	Manual	05 Oct 2021	04 Jan 2022

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The replacement 91 and 436 registrations that Diamond South East put in to replace Arriva have, unsurprisingly given the news from Stagecoach and Falcon about taking on those routes respectively, now been cancelled.

91: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/586794/


436: https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...registered-local-bus-services/details/586795/

It was likely to be the case - once Falcon registered the 436, I couildn't see Diamond continuing with their registration

 

[spuddie]

Coach & Bus Week reports that the 758 service is to be withdrawn. (Also on the Green Line twitter

https://t.co/rpTykcvUM8

https://t.co/fWtKAw3322

Not surprising really, I work in Hemel and used to see the 758 coaches all the time, now barely at all, always gave the impression the service level has dropped from what it was.

In other news, Stevenage have painted one of their Streetlites in heritage Super Bus livery....not that the SB numbers exist anymore but here it is not even on a Stevenage local service:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/wanderer30/51663371977/in/faves-154682712@N05/

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not surprising really, I work in Hemel and used to see the 758 coaches all the time, now barely at all, always gave the impression the service level has dropped from what it was.

In other news, Stevenage have painted one of their Streetlites in heritage Super Bus livery....not that the SB numbers exist anymore but here it is not even on a Stevenage local service:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/wanderer30/51663371977/in/faves-154682712@N05/

Part of the issue is undoubtedly the Covid related decline in travel, and I guess it is losing a small fortune.

However, and I mentioned this before on my Arriva centric jaunt around Herts/Essex, is the promotion of Green Line. The attached photo (credit to rootymasters) illustrates the point - you've essentially got a coach in dealer white with a green dash panel and some low key promotion on it. It's hardly a moving billboard and that's a problem given the weak level of promotion elsewhere.

Arriva Green Line 7215 BV20HRW

Coaches are beginning to reappear in increased numbers in London although the majority are still those in service on service routes such as National Express, Flixbus, Green Line and Oxford Tube. Here are some coaches seen passing Marble Arch and along Park Lane in mid-June 2021.

www.flickr.com

Having better liveries and better promotion might not have saved the 758 in the current circumstances but it certainly won't have helped.

I don't know what it is about heritage liveries. I don't mind them but do wonder what the point is on a populace that it has little if any relevance to, and it's being done when there are much more pressing issues to concern themselves about.

 

[Simon75]

The Greenline 724 Heathrow to Harlow were branded Mercedes Citaro years ago, then repainted to Arriva colours, with basic Greenline branding.
Now have enviro200 mmc buses, which are plain Arriva colours

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Nov 2021 ==

Arriva were going to introduce a Greenline 720 last year from London Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport, but covid caused them to abandon it

 

[MotCO]

The Greenline 724 Heathrow to Harlow were branded Mercedes Citaro years ago, then repainted to Arriva colours, with basic Greenline branding.
Now have enviro200 mmc buses,

Wasn't that because the Citaros were LEZ compliant? But still no reason not to have Green Line liveries on the MMCs.
It would have been interesting to see what livery the Stansted Airport coaches would have been - or were they already deliveted alongside the 758's, therefore no livery!!