Ariva Sprinter?

[umontu]

Saw what looked like an ariva sprinter of some kind near Bolton this morning, odd place for it I thought, anyone know what it is?

Cheers

 

[WestCoast]

Was it in full Arriva Trains Wales livery, or in an old Arriva Trains Northern livery (are there any of those left?).

 

[driver9000]

150285 on loan to Northern from Arriva Trains Wales. Currently fixed to Manchester Victoria-Clitheroe services.

All of Northern's home fleet has been repainted (excepting the GW 142s)

There is a thread on it already. http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42395

 

[umontu]

150285 on loan to Northern from Arriva Trains Wales. Currently fixed to Manchester Victoria-Clitheroe services.

There is a thread on it already.

Sorry, didn't think, thanks.

@WestCoast, only saw it go past very quickly.

 

[WestCoast]

All of Northern's home fleet has been repainted (excepting the GW 142s)

The ex-ATN 156s seem to be always on the Blackpool North - Man Vic runs! I'm presuming they appear elsewhere?

@WestCoast, only saw it go past very quickly.

Would be hard to see at a glance.

 

[driver9000]

I usually get lumbered with a 142

 

[WestCoast]

I usually get lumbered with a 142

The rolling stock on this route is bizarre, varying from a 142 to a 180 - must be one of the most varied routes in terms of the quality of rolling stock in the country. It has 142/150/156/180 plus I've heard of a booked 158 at night (does that exist?)

 

[umontu]

Would be hard to see at a glance.

No kidding.
Saw it wasn't tpe or northern though, the SMILE you're on cctv sign was right at my eye line.

Manchester Vic to Blackpool North has mostly been 180's when I've been on that route, must be my timing.

 

[driver9000]

Must be your timing Unmontu, only 2 in traffic on a good day, a bad day 1 and a worse day none!

There are booked 158s, 22:20 from Blackpool North and 22:22 from Manchester. It's a good route for traction variety, you sometimes literally never know what's going to turn up despite what the 'booked traction' is on the docket.

 

[WestCoast]

Manchester Vic to Blackpool North has mostly been 180's when I've been on that route, must be my timing.

Lucky, I know the diagrams for the 180s but I always end up on the 142s.

 

[umontu]

I think this has been due to the fact I always come back from Huddersfield at the same time.
I recently had a colourful discussion with a Northern guard about how much better they were, I don't think they agree, something about the length they have to walk... He then stormed off.

Going to miss them when they go.

The variety on any Blackpool to Manchester Northern service has always amazed me, only dmu's they have that I've not seen along that route are the 144's I THINK.

 

[driver9000]

144s and 155s are unlikely to appear on the Blackpool - Victoria service because of the amount of mixed depot working involved on the route with only Victoria signing them. You often have a driver from one depot and a guard from another working the same train.

Personally I like the 180 when they are running well.

 

[umontu]

144s and 155s are unlikely to appear on the Blackpool - Victoria service because of the amount of mixed depot working involved on the route with only Victoria signing them. You often have a driver from one depot and a guard from another working the same train.

Personally I like the 180 when they are running well.

Hard for me to spot all the differences between all the Sprinters to be honest but a 144 would stand out.
I swear, although I don't know for sure that I once saw a WY metro coloured sprinter at Kirkham that my grandad got off, I was like 6 though so I may have remembered that wrong, this was pre privatisation too.

 

[driver9000]

155s used to appear regularly on the Transpennine route over Copy Pit right into Northern Spirit days when still in WY livery. They still make the odd appearance now on Blackpool-York services.

Of the Pacers 142s and 144s are easy to tell apart, even from the side - a 144 has a slightly flatter front and doesn't have the slightly rake back windscreens.

 

[WestCoast]

The most interesting thing about the Northern 180s for me is that the driver does the doors (do they open and close them?) and sometimes makes the next stop announcements - leaving the guard to check/sell tickets while the train stops - instead of running mid-transaction to do the doors!

driver9000, what do the drivers of the 180s think about this?

 

[driver9000]

The most interesting thing about the Northern 180s for me is that the driver does the doors (do they open and close them?) and sometimes makes the next stop announcements - leaving the guard to check/sell tickets while the train stops - instead of running mid-transaction to do the doors!

driver9000, what do the drivers of the 180s think about this?

The Driver has no control over the doors on the Northern 180s. All in cab door controls have been disabled and the controls that were on the bulkhead are now in the luggage van area by the door and are worked by the Guard as the rest of the fleet. The 180s often run with a Guard and a fares collector (in reality another Guard purely for fares).

 

[umontu]

The Driver has no control over the doors on the Northern 180s. All in cab door controls have been disabled and the controls that were on the bulkhead are now in the luggage van area by the door and are worked by the Guard as the rest of the fleet. The 180s often run with a Guard and a fares collector (in reality another Guard purely for fares).

Is it normal to have a "fare collector" on busy services, I was on a 142 this morning that had two guards, wasn't really busy but both had their machines, one stayed in the front coach.

 

[driver9000]

Yes, some peak time services run with an AFC on board to assist the Guard with fare collection and frees the Guard up for working the doors at stations helping with timekeeping. Sometimes an AFC may appear to be on a quiet service but they may have worked a busy service on an earlier journey the train made, they have a duty docket to work to which tells them which trains they will work on. AFC turns are subject to a lot of review as to where they are deployed, but they tend to be the first turns scrapped if a Guards duty needs covering. All the AFC's you will see on Northern are fully qualified Guards.

 

[umontu]

Yes, some peak time services run with an AFC on board to assist the Guard with fare collection and frees the Guard up for working the doors at stations helping with timekeeping. Sometimes an AFC may appear to be on a quiet service but they may have worked a busy service on an earlier journey the train made, they have a duty docket to work to which tells them which trains they will work on. AFC turns are subject to a lot of review as to where they are deployed, but they tend to be the first turns scrapped if a Guards duty needs covering. All the AFC's you will see on Northern are fully qualified Guards.

Cool, thanks for that info driver9000.

 

[142094]

Is it normal to have a "fare collector" on busy services, I was on a 142 this morning that had two guards, wasn't really busy but both had their machines, one stayed in the front coach.

Normal but you don't see it too often. There are plenty of services that I can think off straight of the top of my head that they could be useful on but never appear (or I've never seen them on before). Perhaps getting some of the staff who sell tickets at the Excess desks at stations such as Leeds onto the trains and there wouldn't be as big a problem.

 

[WestCoast]

The Driver has no control over the doors on the Northern 180s. All in cab door controls have been disabled and the controls that were on the bulkhead are now in the luggage van area by the door and are worked by the Guard as the rest of the fleet. The 180s often run with a Guard and a fares collector (in reality another Guard purely for fares).

Oh I see, I must have misread something - I don't travel much on the 180s anymore. Anyway DOO wouldn't be possible!

I thought it was like the Pendos where the doors could be opened by the driver, closed by the guard - which is a good idea in my opinion, what do you think?

 

[Anvil1984]

All the AFC's you will see on Northern are fully qualified Guards.

Not quite, AFCs are qualified guards on the West Side (ex FNW), The East Side (ex ATN) has revenue protection assistants on board doing afc duties who are inly qualifed on revenue

 

[driver9000]

Thanks Anvil, I'd forgotten about that difference. Oops.

Without wanting to create a DOO argument, I'd rather leave the doors to the Guard. On the 180s most of the Guards have worked out a way of getting through the train without it affecting timekeeping.

 

[WestCoast]

Without wanting to create a DOO argument, I'd rather leave the doors to the Guard. On the 180s most of the Guards have worked out a way of getting through the train without it affecting timekeeping.

I don't blame you. The funniest thing I've seen is in Germany on a DOO train when the driver literally leans out of the cab window peering round to close the doors

 

[umontu]

There are plenty of services that I can think off straight of the top of my head that they could be useful on but never appear (or I've never seen them on before).

Have to say monday mornings there are more than enough people checking tickets, last week I had
A check at Kirkham by G4s, no idea why they were there as that's the first time I've seen them.
A check straight away on the train I got on.
Didn't get checked at Preston because I take the subway every time.
A check on the service to Manchester Pic.
A check coming off platform 13/14 A check on the train to Huddersfield.
Then a check at Huddersfield.

 

[WestCoast]

A check at Kirkham by G4s, no idea why they were there as that's the first time I've seen them.

Interesting, they do barrier small stations like this but not too often. Some people chance it with no ticket on the Kirkham - Preston section I've noticed.

 

[umontu]

Interesting, they do barrier small stations like this but not too often. Some people chance it with no ticket on the Kirkham - Preston section I've noticed.

I'm sure I've expressed my opinions on kirkham and wesham a few times, it needs some work doing (other than covering the stairs again), like a proper disabled access and ticket machines.

I'd volunteer to help but I'm already helping the PWRS this summer.

 

[142094]

Have to say monday mornings there are more than enough people checking tickets, last week I had
A check at Kirkham by G4s, no idea why they were there as that's the first time I've seen them.
A check straight away on the train I got on.
Didn't get checked at Preston because I take the subway every time.
A check on the service to Manchester Pic.
A check coming off platform 13/14 A check on the train to Huddersfield.
Then a check at Huddersfield.

Depends on where you are an the time of the train. Certainly in the morning peak travelling into stations such as Leeds and Newcastle, the train is often full and standing even before it reaches the last few stops on the line and there isn't much chance of the guard being able to get down the whole train. Easy solution would be for a guard/AFC being at both ends of the train and working towards the middle.

Not sure if you've seen the queues at Leeds to buy tickets before exiting the station through the barriers, and the vast majority of these are due to the fact the guard either did not have time or could not get through the train.

 

[umontu]

Depends on where you are an the time of the train. Certainly in the morning peak travelling into stations such as Leeds and Newcastle, the train is often full and standing even before it reaches the last few stops on the line and there isn't much chance of the guard being able to get down the whole train. Easy solution would be for a guard/AFC being at both ends of the train and working towards the middle.

Not sure if you've seen the queues at Leeds to buy tickets before exiting the station through the barriers, and the vast majority of these are due to the fact the guard either did not have time or could not get through the train.

Have to admit I haven't seen the ques at Leeds, when I went there in February there wasn't much of a que. (I'm excellent with timing aren't I? )

The Afc's would be better employed on that route I agree.