Are yellow fronts on trains dead?

[frankmoh]

I know yellow fronts on trains are no longer required by law, but it's sad to see it go recently. Does anyone on this forum think they will stick around? The Class 345, 710, 717, 730 and 777 are just a few examples, although in the 777's case the rest of the train is yellow.

 

[D365]

I know yellow fronts on trains are no longer required by law...

Incorrect. Yellow fronts are still mandated by GMRT2131 unless high intensity headlights are fitted.

 

[frankmoh]

Incorrect. Yellow fronts are still mandated by GMRT2131 unless high intensity headlights are fitted.

Aren't new trains fitted with that now anyways?

 

[Oxfordblues]

There was once a wonderful April Fool's spoof story, I think it was in the Railway Magazine, that all steam locos would have to have their smokebox doors painted yellow to comply with the regulations. Howls of protest all round!

 

[swt_passenger]

If the lights do not meet latest standards a rectangular yellow panel of minimum area 1 sq m, (minimum dimension 0.6 m), is required.

A full ‘yellow end’ has not been required in recent times for mainline operation - I believe a significant amount of excess yellow has been applied by livery designers.

 

[D365]

Needless to say the yellow panels are not 'dead'.

 

[L+Y]

It's an odd thing, but I continue to think a train without yellow ends doesn't look "properly British"- and I'm materially less interested in them!

In general, it does seem odd that this safety feature was downgraded, given the general gold plating of safety requirements across the rest of the network.

 

[RailWonderer]

In general, it does seem odd that this safety feature was downgraded, given the general gold plating of safety requirements across the rest of the network.

It's more about modern technology making older safety laws redundant. TfW's new fleet, EMR and Avanti's IETs don't have yellow front ends nor do the TPE 397s. I expect LNER's 897s won't either.

 

[Zomboid]

Isn't there something about limiting speed if the headlights are broken, which is why the GWR and LNER IEPs have yellow ends, so they can run at line speed without them?

 

[skyhigh]

Isn't there something about limiting speed if the headlights are broken, which is why the GWR and LNER IEPs have yellow ends, so they can run at line speed without them?

The Rule Book doesn't differentiate between trains with or without yellow ends.

Complete failure of headlight - 20mph with a 'white light' displayed (i.e. bardic lamp) or 75mph with a portable headlight.

I know yellow fronts on trains are no longer required by law, but it's sad to see it go recently. Does anyone on this forum think they will stick around?

It's not particularly recent, the rules were altered a number of years ago. The LNER 80x, Thameslink class 700 and Northern 195/331 fleets meet the lighting requirements but still have yellow fronts, so there's no sign that it's going to die out any time soon.

 

[Class83]

Isn't there something about limiting speed if the headlights are broken, which is why the GWR and LNER IEPs have yellow ends, so they can run at line speed without them?

Would make sense, presumably the GMRT2131 high intensity headlights need to be fitted and operating.

 

[Mike Machin]

From memory, I don't think that full yellow ends were ever mandated for safety reasons and the traditional yellow warning panel carried when the then-new diesel locomotives were introduced would have sufficed. I have red that the full yellow ends were introduced as part of the 1960s corporate identity scheme. The very first draft of the scheme envisaged a wider, larger yellow warning panel than had hitherto been the norm, with the depth of the yellow area wrapping around the side but using the new bright BR Red, onto which the new BR double-arrow logo would be positioned. The only item ever painted this way as far as I am aware was the Brush Type 4 (Class47) painted and delivered this way for use on the new XP64 train which showcased the new corporate identity.

Before implementation of the full new branding, various 'tweaks' were made, including the decision to paint the entire ends of all locomotives and multiple units in yellow. This was partly to improve safety, but also to make the front ends of all BR trains as similar as possible as a part of the overall brand. This was maintained for many, many years until sectorisation gradually saw this mandate being relaxed.

I personally think the new stock without it look very contemporary, but how the fronts of trains will appear if GBR does eventually adopt a unifying brand will be interesting to see.

 

[vuzzeho]

I think livery designers aren't doing enough with their freedom! No yellow ends and the best we can do is... make it black? Yawn. The 730/2s do it quite nicely, and so do the 710s. I also like the 398s (well, what they're meant to look like when the yellow fronts are removed) and the TfW 197s but I think the 810 takes it - looks stunning with that metal front.

That said, I hope whatever GBR does also takes into account how good a yellow front can be. I think they look great on basically all Turbostars (except the 168 but I just don't like that one), and Virgin did yellow fronts really nicely. BR cooked with the yellow front ends in general. Also, Eurostar, weirdly enough. Looks great on the 373s and 374s.

 

[chrisjo]

Yellow ends are very useful when you're adjusting the colour balance / levels / saturation of your photos.

 

[frankmoh]

BR cooked with the yellow front ends in general.

I simply cannot imagine a Networker without it's nice big yellow front end.

See also pretty much every slamdoor train, such as this 205, they all look good.

 

[sad1e]

Any old BR traction such as a 37 would look wrong without a yellow end , personally i think all locos and multiple units should be required to have yellow ends no matter the headlights, most stick looks quite ugly without.(Photo attached of 37s as they should have their nose painted)

One thing I particularly hate is a partial yellow nose on locos such as 37510 , it looks awful to just have a square of the nose yellow , may as well just do the whole nose at that point. (Photo attached of 37510)

 

[Zomboid]

37510 isn't a design that takes account of the lines of the loco. Didn't they do 37s with small yellow panels in the BR green era? Those looked fine.

It's all subjective of course, but the lack of yellow on some trains does take some getting used to. And it depends what they do use. I find the grey on 197s looks like unpainted plastic, which doesn't do anything for me, for example. The light show (yellow or red M) on a 777 looks good to me, though.

 

[sad1e]

37510 isn't a design that takes account of the lines of the loco. Didn't they do 37s with small yellow panels in the BR green era? Those looked fine.

It's all subjective of course, but the lack of yellow on some trains does take some getting used to. And it depends what they do use. I find the grey on 197s looks like unpainted plastic, which doesn't do anything for me, for example. The light show (yellow or red M) on a 777 looks good to me, though.

The BR green 37's noses were different though as they kept the yellow bellow the split boxes which in my opinion looks much less horrid than the yellow nose on 37510.

I really hope the 37's in the europhoenix livery get repainted soon I really hate the way the yellow front is done on them.

 

[vuzzeho]

Speaking of locos, I really loved the TPE Class 68s without yellow front ends. That worked really well. Also, the Class 99s.

 

[dk1]

Here in the Wonderful World of Greater Anglia we don’t need them but thankfully have retained yellow fronts on our entire and very large fleet.

 

[supervc-10]

They definitely make a train look British. The 810 in particular (probably because they're new and I've not seen them much) looks very foreign and 'not British' as a result. I agree with @vuzzeho though, they look very stylish.

I do think that designers need to take into account the styling of the train. The Turbostar yellow fronts are an excellent example - they look good on most of them, but the old TPE livery where they tried to make it look like a 185 was awful. The South Eastern yellow panel on the 707s looks off to me too. It's not terrible, but I think they'd have been better off just painting the central panel yellow, like the 700s have. I'm absolutely not a fan of the LNWR livery on the 350s with just the centre of the corridor connection painted yellow. It would have looked far better if they'd kept the full end like other Desiro units.

 

[birchesgreen]

Yellow front ends gave a punctuation to the design, unfortunately a lot of the new post-yellow attempts at liveries haven't really done this very well.

 

[frankmoh]

I have seen Chiltern's new livery and the new 68s. Seems like they have ditched both the yellow fronts and silver livery. I wonder which TOC will be the last to hold out with yellow fronts in 2050 or whatever.

 

[sad1e]

I wonder which TOC will be the last to hold out with yellow fronts in 2050 or whatever.

Probably whichever TOC has the oldest stock that requires a yellow front due to low powered headlights. I bet on northern will all their hand-me-down rolling stock .

 

[birchesgreen]

Probably whichever TOC has the oldest stock that requires a yellow front due to low powered headlights. I bet on northern will all their hand-me-down rolling stock .

Probably a Northern Sprinter, still chugging along only defeated by the heat death of the universe.

 

[D365]

I have seen Chiltern's new livery and the new 68s. Seems like they have ditched both the yellow fronts and silver livery.

the 68s + Mk5A DBSOs have already operated in traffic without yellow fronts (TPE ’Nova 3’ livery).

 

[Pete_uk]

A white ended Networker for frankmoh!

 

[frankmoh]

the 68s + Mk5A DBSOs have already operated in traffic without yellow fronts (TPE ’Nova 3’ livery).

It will be quite odd to see the Chiltern 68s alongside the ex-TPE 68s in a completely different livery.

 

[frankmoh]

A white ended Networker for frankmoh!

It almost looks Japanese or something.