Are undisplayed seat reservations valid?

[yorkie]

If I've booked seat 3 months in advance and someone is sitting in my seat there will be, shall I say, a robust discussion.

At three months in advance, it is perhaps not guaranteed that the train won't lose it's reservations, as has happened to me and others.

If it's shown as available then any such discussion needs to be with the crew to find you an alternative.

Equally if it's shown as reserved but someone else is occupying the seat and also has an identical reservation, again it's for the crew to find you an alternative.

If no alternative is available, LNER will give you compensation under their Seat Guarantee scheme.

If no standard seats are available and first class seats are available, it's possible the crew may use their discretion to upgrade you.

I would suggest that any discussion isn't too robust, at least not to begin with; asking nicely may yield a better outcome.

If there were no reservations showing, then they don't apply (as stated by the byelaw) and you would be in the wrong - doesn't matter how long in advance you booked it.

If this occurs your argument is with the TOC, not whoever happens to be sitting in the seat.

Agreed.

 

[Mikw]

I hate seat reservations, i think they cause more trouble than they're worth.

 

[bramling]

If I've booked seat 3 months in advance and someone is sitting in my seat there will be, shall I say, a robust discussion.

How is that going to work in practice if the person is equally robust in response? If you try to physically move them then you’d be committing an assault.

If the reservations aren’t displayed then it doesn’t matter how far the seat might have been booked in advance, that counts for nothing.

 

[PG]

I hate seat reservations, i think they cause more trouble than they're worth.

They might as well add a message similar to that found on biscuit tins :
"On occasions we may have to substitute a seat reservation. Any substitution will be of equal or greater value"
which roughly translates as
"We'll find you a seat somewhere if possible!"

 

[Falcon1200]

Do Avanti on-board staff actually reprimand Advance ticket holders if they sit in the unreserved seats (i.e. for not sitting where their reservation states they 'should') ?

I have heard recently, on Avanti services, the Train Manager announcing 'if you don't like your reserved seat take an Available seat somewhere else'! Whether they then go through the train and cancel the reservations on unoccupied seats I do not know.... But I doubt it.

 

[sh24]

I hate seat reservations, i think they cause more trouble than they're worth.

For most travellers they are a big source of reassurance as they have confidence they will be able to sit down, at the very least. For me it also means I can have a solo seat for an undisturbed journey.

The trouble is caused by the railway not being able to make something customer important work correctly, consistently.

 

[trainophile]

I have heard recently, on Avanti services, the Train Manager announcing 'if you don't like your reserved seat take an Available seat somewhere else'! Whether they then go through the train and cancel the reservations on unoccupied seats I do not know.... But I doubt it.

Doubtful, as they are electronic overhead displays. I’ve heard that too, it’s reassuring as I always book a seat but usually head for U or G on 11-coach sets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have heard recently, on Avanti services, the Train Manager announcing 'if you don't like your reserved seat take an Available seat somewhere else'! Whether they then go through the train and cancel the reservations on unoccupied seats I do not know.... But I doubt it.

It is supposedly possible for that to happen by way of cameras on Pendolinos and seat sensors on 80x, but the feature appears not to work yet.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

For most travellers they are a big source of reassurance as they have confidence they will be able to sit down, at the very least.

But given the level of unreliability reported in this thread it doesn't actually do that in practice on a fair number of occasions.

 

[sh24]

But given the level of unreliability reported in this thread it doesn't actually do that in practice on a fair number of occasions.

Indeed. But the answer is fixing the unreliability to make the railway more customer friendly, not giving up.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Indeed. But the answer is fixing the unreliability to make the railway more customer friendly, not giving up.

Make it simpler, and it will be much easier to make it reliable - i.e. reservations only available until 15 minutes before departing the origin station, then that's it.

 

[styles]

I hate seat reservations, i think they cause more trouble than they're worth.

I love them. I rarely find they fail, and it means I can be reasonably confident I'm going to get a table seat to use my laptop on. I don't see a problem with rewarding people for advance planning.

I've given up on hoping for my quiet coach reservations to result in a quiet journey, but that's another matter!

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But given the level of unreliability reported in this thread it doesn't actually do that in practice on a fair number of occasions.

I expect that reading this thread would give a somewhat unrealistic picture of the scale of the problem. I travel by train a fair amount and I can't even remember the last time seat reservations weren't working. That includes the long distance operators like LNER, Avanti, Lumo, CrossCountry, ScotRail InterCity.

 

[Falcon1200]

I travel by train a fair amount and I can't even remember the last time seat reservations weren't working.

Whereas I travelled on an Avanti train just last week on which the reservations were not working! Which led to the interesting situation of 3 of us claiming the same 2-person table in First - One person was in entirely the wrong coach, one person had reserved one of the seats but both were shown Available, and one (me) had no reservation. Two of us sat elsewhere....

There was also the problem, in August, of a seat in Standard Premium shown Available, and occupied from the train's origin, suddenly becoming Reserved at Preston. Fortunately the reserver did not make an issue of it and there were other seats available.

 

[Travelmonkey]

One thing I've noticed especially on XC is double reservations, usually with one booking via train line & one by other means,

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Much like op I have upgrades due to being a wheel user although sometimes only minor perks, so for a recent SP journey was only offered light refreshments.

I know when booking avanti it won't let me reserve a wheelchair space so I book a seat nearby so I am in my booked coach,

 

[OscarH]

One thing I've noticed especially on XC is double reservations, usually with one booking via train line & one by other means

I strongly doubt this has anything to do with Trainline, might just be coincidence because of the vast percentage of tickets sold by them

 

[Starmill]

One thing I've noticed especially on XC is double reservations, usually with one booking via train line & one by other means,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2025 ==

Much like op I have upgrades due to being a wheel user although sometimes only minor perks, so for a recent SP journey was only offered light refreshments.

I know when booking avanti it won't let me reserve a wheelchair space so I book a seat nearby so I am in my booked coach,

Surely that's not right? Avanti will let you reserve the wheelchair space by contacting their assistance line (0800 0158 123) or filling in the form here, won't they? https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/travel-information/plan-your-journey/assisted-travel

 

[bengley]

If I've booked seat 3 months in advance and someone is sitting in my seat there will be, shall I say, a robust discussion.

You can have as robust a discussion as you like, it's not your seat. You are not entitled to sit there.

I can assure you that your robust discussion would be met with a robust response and if you continued you would be ignored.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I strongly doubt this has anything to do with Trainline, might just be coincidence because of the vast percentage of tickets sold by them

When it happens the cause is almost always that the train has been changed in some way and has been put back in with a different retail service ID so appears empty again despite there being people with reservations already. Nothing to do with which retailer it is.

 

[Haywain]

When it happens the cause is almost always that the train has been changed in some way and has been put back in with a different retail service ID so appears empty again despite there being people with reservations already.

Or that they are on the wrong train, or have changed the reservation and forgotten that they've done so (seen that one loads of times).

 

[43096]

Or that they are on the wrong train, or have changed the reservation and forgotten that they've done so (seen that one loads of times).

My favourite for that was on the Zürich to Graz EC service a few years ago where a woman told me I was sat in her seat. I produced my reservation to show otherwise - she then went through the same thing with someone else. At that point the guard appeared doing tickets, and it became clear that her reservation was for the previous day. She was found a free seat but remained ranting and raving for quite some time.

 

[Starmill]

Or that they are on the wrong train, or have changed the reservation and forgotten that they've done so (seen that one loads of times).

The frequency with with one of the purported reservation holders is in fact not on the correct train is genuinely scary.

 

[Haywain]

The frequency with with one of the purported reservation holders is in fact not on the correct train is genuinely scary.

Indeed it is. I've been involved in cases where a person will swear blind that they are on the right train until the (wrong) date on the ticket is pointed out to them.

 

[Rob F]

Indeed; if reservations are not displayed then they are completely uneforceable.

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We were on a DSB train from Flensburg to Fredericia in 2014 that was full and standing. We had reservations but the reservations were not in place on the train. The guard still evicted a group of people from our seats. I felt rather guilty but neither the guard nor the passengers in question seemed to think it in any way unusual.

 

[Cell2025]

Indeed it is. I've been involved in cases where a person will swear blind that they are on the right train until the (wrong) date on the ticket is pointed out to them.

Indeed, and for a significant minority understanding seat reservations/carriage identity etc seems way beyond their capability. That and families of six with twenty (I kid you not) bags (I often think they must be carrying their whole lives with them) standing at the entrance of the carriage looking like someone's fed them a depressant. The luggage 'reasonable limit' is another thing which people just ignore.

Basically enough people are too dim to remotely understand how to behave on public transport, and it's always the fault of the person who's bothered to get clued up.

 

[bramling]

Indeed, and for a significant minority understanding seat reservations/carriage identity etc seems way beyond their capability. That and families of six with twenty (I kid you not) bags (I often think they must be carrying their whole lives with them) standing at the entrance of the carriage looking like someone's fed them a depressant. The luggage 'reasonable limit' is another thing which people just ignore.

Basically enough people are too dim to remotely understand how to behave on public transport, and it's always the fault of the person who's bothered to get clued up.

Yes one of the most objectionable types of people are those who make an error or poor judgement, then aggravate this by ranting at others.

The saying goes that the problem with this world is that stupid people are full of confidence whilst intelligent ones are full of doubts.

 

[Nottingham59]

The saying goes that the problem with this world is that stupid people are full of confidence whilst intelligent ones are full of doubts.

Are you sure about that??

 

[trainophile]

Indeed it is. I've been involved in cases where a person will swear blind that they are on the right train until the (wrong) date on the ticket is pointed out to them.

I once had to claim my seat from a chap who was holding an Advance ticket for the same service, same date but the following month! He was a bit surprised when he realised but gracious about it. I hoped he didn't get ticket checked.

 

[Falcon1200]

I once had to claim my seat from a chap who was holding an Advance ticket for the same service, same date but the following month!

I was on the 0736 Glasgow Central-Euston at origin one morning when a man claimed he had reserved the seat in which another man, also with a reservation, was already sitting. Luckily the Train Manager was passing and quickly established that the second man was actually booked on the 0800 Glasgow C-Euston - And this was in First Class! Do some people leave their common sense at home when travelling by train?

 

[Spartacus]

I was on the 0736 Glasgow Central-Euston at origin one morning when a man claimed he had reserved the seat in which another man, also with a reservation, was already sitting. Luckily the Train Manager was passing and quickly established that the second man was actually booked on the 0800 Glasgow C-Euston - And this was in First Class! Do some people leave their common sense at home when travelling by train?

As anyone who's ever worked on the railway will tell you, that itself is a daft question! Of course they do!

 

[Travelmonkey]

To be fair the railway lacks logic my latest PA booking for a December trip has a -2 hour - 54 mins connection.

*image booming on Passenger Assistance app for a Stone Crossing to Derby journey causing this amusing glitch booking me on 2 different itenerys in the same trip* .

It's a fine balance but in general the public are stupid or lazy or both hence why we have to play a game of "who's bag is this" for the wheelchair space.