Are ticket barriers becoming more "rebellious"?

[brad465]

Something I seem to have noticed is that at a number of London Terminals, ticket barriers seem to be rejecting a greater proportion of tickets/passes/etc., which leads to greater crowds at the barriers and general frustration, especially if one's own ticket is affected. I know some stations have barriers that reject certain ticket types otherwise valid so they can be checked to catch fare evaders (e.g. child tickets), but are there any other groups? Could there be a reliability issue causing more rejections, particularly with an increasing variety of ticket formats/mediums for presentation, or could it just be perception through there being more passengers than in the past? If there are more ticket types deliberately rejected so manual checks can be made I think for ease of passenger movement more manned gates are required, but that's a whole debate in itself.

(I was toying between Fares advice and Infrastructure for this, so please move if not in right place)

 

[Hadders]

Some newish ticket types appear not to be set up correctly. For example super off peak day travelcards at places like Liverpool Street and Paddington.

 

[Kite159]

Some newish ticket types appear not to be set up correctly. For example super off peak day travelcards at places like Liverpool Street and Paddington.

I noticed that a few weeks ago when using a "Sunday Out" travelcard from Basingstoke, worked in all barriers other than those operated by Elizabeth Line & Overground (mainly Forest Gate, Wansted Park & Barking Riverside)

Bit of a pain trying to get the attention of the member of staff who was busy in a side office.

 

[XAM2175]

I know some stations have barriers that reject certain ticket types otherwise valid so they can be checked to catch fare evaders (e.g. child tickets), but are there any other groups? ... If there are more ticket types deliberately rejected so manual checks can be made I think for ease of passenger movement more manned gates are required, but that's a whole debate in itself.

The "reject all Railcard-discounted tickets" programming that's apparently used in some places is a right pain.

As noted in previous discussions, a better system would use a visible indicator (like London Underground's barriers have) to signal to revenue inspectors that the passenger should be checked, but without holding the passenger up if there aren't any staff to do the checking.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

In my experience, pretty much every single ticket ever gets rejected at Norwich station - causes massive crowds coming off the train from London Liverpool Street, especially as there's often only one member of staff to manually approve all of the tickets.

Then again, I've only ever travelled to Norwich on the aforementioned services from London, and these have all been on advance tickets, so it may be the case that the barriers are set up to reject these.

 

[Haywain]

In my experience, pretty much every single ticket ever gets rejected at Norwich station - causes massive crowds coming off the train from London Liverpool Street, especially as there's often only one member of staff to manually approve all of the tickets.

Then again, I've only ever travelled to Norwich on the aforementioned services from London, and these have all been on advance tickets, so it may be the case that the barriers are set up to reject these.

That’s not been my experience at Norwich using railcard discounted Advance tickets.

 

[davews]

I find the barriers at Waterloo platforms 20-24 frequently reject my travel card on the return journey (rarely on the incoming one) just minutes after it has let me through the underground ones.
I assume they are programmed to also reject off peak tickets before 9am or so, like at Southampton when I arrived at 0845 for the 0900 - nice smile from the chap at the gate line after a quick glance.

 

[Birkonian]

I used a paper ticket to travel from London St. Pancras CIV to Birmingham on Monday. It didn't work at any tube or mainline station.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I used a paper ticket to travel from London St. Pancras CIV to Birmingham on Monday. It didn't work at any tube or mainline station.

Any CIV ticket will be a programmed reject ( for manual examination ) just about everywhere because it offers such a serious discount against a normal ticket.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Several times this year both late morning and late afternoon the ticket gates at Waterloo failed to open so I could board a train for part of my return journey on an off peak return ticket valid at all times outside 0430 to 0930 on weekdays. I never had this problem before this year. I had to get the tickets manually checked by ticket gate staff who opened the gates to allow me to board the train. The ticket gates opened with my ticket at my final destination. I never had this problem with off peak return tickets at Waterloo before this year. I am told that the ticket gates at Waterloo have been programmed not to open for off peak tickets to force manual checks despite off peak tickets being valid at all times outside 0430 to 0930 on weekdays. I am guessing this is a result of SWR selling super off peak tickets with differing valid times and the ticket gates being unable to distinguish between off peak tickets valid at all times outside 0430 to 0930 on weekdays and super off peak tickets which have a difficult to remember and inconvenient range of valid times. I always avoid super off peak tickets, I do not like them and I would prefer to see them withdrawn from sale because of the complicated and inconvenient valid times, because they make the ticketing system too complicated with too many tickets for the same journey and above all because of this problem with the ticket gates at London Waterloo. I cannot take seriously claims by the Government and the TOCs that they want to reduce costs on the railway when they are blocking the use of automatic ticket checking and forcing manual ticket checks at the busiest station in the country.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

Had the return half of a Super Off-peak Return to Loughborough rejected today when starting the journey at Loughborough. Gate said it was past its valid date despite the return half being valid for a month from yesterday (Reject code 113). St Pancras gates were quite happy to let me out 90 minutes later!

 

[James H]

London Bridge often rejects Network Railcard discounted tickets. It's a right pain.

 

[paul1609]

Several times this year both late morning and late afternoon the ticket gates at Waterloo failed to open so I could board a train for part of my return journey on an off peak return ticket valid at all times outside 0430 to 0930 on weekdays. I never had this problem before this year. I had to get the tickets manually checked by ticket gate staff who opened the gates to allow me to board the train. The ticket gates opened with my ticket at my final destination. I never had this problem with off peak return tickets at Waterloo before this year. I am told that the ticket gates at Waterloo have been programmed not to open for off peak tickets to force manual checks despite off peak tickets being valid at all times outside 0430 to 0930 on weekdays. I am guessing this is a result of SWR selling super off peak tickets with differing valid times and the ticket gates being unable to distinguish between off peak tickets valid at all times outside 0430 to 0930 on weekdays and super off peak tickets which have a difficult to remember and inconvenient range of valid times. I always avoid super off peak tickets, I do not like them and I would prefer to see them withdrawn from sale because of the complicated and inconvenient valid times, because they make the ticketing system too complicated with too many tickets for the same journey and above all because of this problem with the ticket gates at London Waterloo. I cannot take seriously claims by the Government and the TOCs that they want to reduce costs on the railway when they are blocking the use of automatic ticket checking and forcing manual ticket checks at the busiest station in the country.

I think tickets at Waterloo Mainline will always be a problem just because of the complexities of ticketing there, as well as restrictions from Southwest railways own services they have to cope with a different set of restrictions for cross London tickets, another set of restrictions for GTR owned flows and another set for Southeastern own flows. I doubt that the barriers have the capacity to correctly deal with every variation.

 

[miklcct]

A while ago I got my Brondesbury - Farnborough Main or North not via London Sunday Out (26-30 Railcard) ticket rejected at Willesden Junction entry. There was no staff around and I had to force through the barrier.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I think tickets at Waterloo Mainline will always be a problem just because of the complexities of ticketing there, as well as restrictions from Southwest railways own services they have to cope with a different set of restrictions for cross London tickets, another set of restrictions for GTR owned flows and another set for Southeastern own flows. I doubt that the barriers have the capacity to correctly deal with every variation.

They certainly should have, admittedly the barriers we have in Newcastle are from a different manufacturer but they cope with all restriction.

 

[Haywain]

They certainly should have

They really don’t.

 

[hkstudent]

A while ago I got my Brondesbury - Farnborough Main or North not via London Sunday Out (26-30 Railcard) ticket rejected at Willesden Junction entry. There was no staff around and I had to force through the barrier.

Send a complain to TfL for the lack of gateline staff that would trap passengers. But don't mention about the force through the barrier.

 

[AM9]

Send a complain to TfL for the lack of gateline staff that would trap passengers. But don't mention about the force through the barrier.

If you were delayed 15 minutes at the end of a journey because a gateline wouldn't accept a ticket and there were no staff to assist, would that qualify for delay repay?

 

[matt_world2004]

I find the barriers at Waterloo platforms 20-24 frequently reject my travel card on the return journey (rarely on the incoming one) just minutes after it has let me through the underground ones.
I assume they are programmed to also reject off peak tickets before 9am or so, like at Southampton when I arrived at 0845 for the 0900 - nice smile from the chap at the gate line after a quick glance.

I suspect they are probably rejecting them because they have been timestamped going through the underground barriers recently and its being incorrectly identified as a pass back

 

[miklcct]

I suspect they are probably rejecting them because they have been timestamped going through the underground barriers recently and its being incorrectly identified as a pass back

Doesn't a pass back mean using the same gateline repeatedly? It is absolutely normal to use a Travelcard in different barriers in quick succession, for example, seconds between different gatelines at an interchange station.

 

[davews]

They always work the other way, arrive Waterloo (just after 10am) and immediately through the underground barriers no issue. Interestingly though the other day I walked back from London Bridge and the Waterloo 20-24 barriers accepted the travel card no problem so there may be an element of truth in your theory.

 

[weeklycommuter]

I think tickets at Waterloo Mainline will always be a problem just because of the complexities of ticketing there, as well as restrictions from Southwest railways own services they have to cope with a different set of restrictions for cross London tickets, another set of restrictions for GTR owned flows and another set for Southeastern own flows. I doubt that the barriers have the capacity to correctly deal with every variation.

At least the ticket gate staff at Waterloo accepted that my off peak return ticket was valid and opened the gate.There is clearly a problem at Paddington with staff not understanding the details of restrictions on off peak tickets and blocking passengers boarding trains for which their tickets are valid which is totally unacceptable. Offering several different tickets with different time restrictions for the same journey also causes confusion for rail passengers trying to buy tickets on ticket vending machines and forcing them to ask ticket office staff which ticket to buy which undermines the policy of trying to reduce the use of ticket offices. The railway industry has comprehensively failed to properly administer the complex range of time restrictions which they have created on off peak and super off peak tickets and the railway industry's attempts to do this are increasing costs, undermining productivity, reducing fare revenue, forcing passengers to use ticket offices instead of ticket vending machines and causing rail passengers to be blocked from boarding trains for which their tickets are valid. The only solution is for restrictions on off peak tickets to be limited to 0430 to 0929 on working days, for all restrictions on off peak tickets outside these times to be abolished and for all super off peak tickets with restrictions outside these times to be withdrawn from sale. The Government and the TOCs cannot credibly claim that they are interested in reducing costs on the railway unless they do this. With a reduction in commuter numbers post-COVID restrictions outside the weekday morning peak are no longer justified.

 

[paul1609]

They certainly should have, admittedly the barriers we have in Newcastle are from a different manufacturer but they cope with all restriction.

Waterloo is a particularly complicated location because in common with most south east stations it has peak and contra peak flows and restrictions. Some southeastern flows can be legitamately be used in both directions because of but not limited to Vauxhalls London Terminal status (and other flows at Waterloo East).

 

[matt_world2004]

Doesn't a pass back mean using the same gateline repeatedly? It is absolutely normal to use a Travelcard in different barriers in quick succession, for example, seconds between different gatelines at an interchange station.

It's probably incorrectly programmed the waterloo gateline as the same gateline or the london underground ticket is encoding the incorrect gateline on the barrier and this has not been picked up due to the relatively small amount of paper tickets that use platform 20-24

 

[miklcct]

relatively small amount of paper tickets that use platform 20-24

Isn't outboundary Travelcards very common in the former Network SouthEast area? They can only be issued as paper tickets and a significant portion of people who live outside London use these to go to London.

 

[matt_world2004]

Isn't outboundary Travelcards very common in the former Network SouthEast area? They can only be issued as paper tickets and a significant portion of people who live outside London use these to go to London.

Most services from platform 20-24 are local journeys within zones 1-6. With people further afield taking faster services from other platforms . It is highly likely the predominant form of ticket is either oyster, contactless or freedom pass

 

[davews]

I see loads of paper tickets going through the platform 20-24 barriers, the line doesn't stop at Feltham....

 

[matt_world2004]

I see loads of paper tickets going through the platform 20-24 barriers, the line doesn't stop at Feltham....

I know but beyond Feltham it is often quicker to get limited stop services which serve other platforms at Waterloo.

For contrast I recently did a ticketing survey at Hanwell. Over five hours we had 16 non smart tickets at the entrance I was standing at . Non smart tickets included people who didn't have any ticket

As it was based on touch ins and non touch ins

 

[Wallsendmag]

Waterloo is a particularly complicated location because in common with most south east stations it has peak and contra peak flows and restrictions. Some southeastern flows can be legitamately be used in both directions because of but not limited to Vauxhalls London Terminal status (and other flows at Waterloo East).

Have a think about Newcastle we have LNER ,Northern, TPE,XC,Lumo and Nexus fares with all their own restrictions

 

[OscarH]

Have a think about Newcastle we have LNER ,Northern, TPE,XC,Lumo and Nexus fares with all their own restrictions

How new are your gates at Newcastle in comparison though? I'd very much expect recent gates to be built to handle complex situation, but I seem I recall it being said on here a lot of the older traditional gates which are at most places are very limited