Are these tickets genuine?

[centraltrains]

I know you're not allowed to re-sell tickets so it would be a void of sale terms anyway... But something about these tickets really doesn't look right?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/London-to-Manchester-train-ticket-return-14th/112365913557

I may have just gone mad but with the quantity available and for other journeys too it doesn't look right?

They even say 'Refundable and exchangeable for a small fee' on them. Surely if they are genuine the seller would make more money back from them by getting a refund?

 

[Bletchleyite]

They look genuine but indeed the number on sale looks suspicious, as if there's a nicked ticket machine/roll, theft from work or similar involved.

Indeed, I can't see why you'd sell for £40-odd when a refund for £70-odd would be available for a genuine ticket. A lot of people didn't know walk-ups were refundable before, but now it is made very clear that they are.

 

[Tetchytyke]

But something about these tickets really doesn't look right?

It's the fact they're walk up tickets, that you can get a refund on (less £10) that doesn't stack up for me. You wouldn't pay face value for them- what's the point?- so chances are the seller is going to get less than they paid for them. And only an idiot will buy a ticket off eBay to save a fiver.

Unless...the seller didn't pay face value for them either.

ETA: The seller has eight items for sale. All are Manchester-London off-peak returns. All on sale for half the face value. All paid for by credit or debit card.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/vanityinsanityxo?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

My spidey sense is tingling on this one. But the tickets look legit. I wonder if someone is scamming their employer (and not necessarily a railway employer)?

 

[Gareth Marston]

The "STAR" looking ones look the most genuine lookinf however at least one of them has misaligned print on one portion but OK on the other.

The non STAR ones look very suspicious i.e no £XX.XX printed on them.

There's easier ways to be detained by BTP/stopped by Revenue Inspectors and details taken for prosecution than to pay a stranger fore the privilege

 

[Bletchleyite]

My spidey sense is tingling on this one. But the tickets look legit. I wonder if someone is scamming their employer (and not necessarily a railway employer)?

Yes, it does rather look like a theft-from-employer/expenses fraud issue.

The price on the new format is on the bottom border, you can just about make it out on one set.

Oh, actually, I've just twigged, I know what he is doing with one of them at least if you look at his item list (but not the one linked on the thread)... they are both *return* halves, he's bought a return instead of a single for £1 extra and is selling the return halves on for a profit. That is *definitely* not allowed.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The non STAR ones look very suspicious i.e no £XX.XX printed on them.

You can just make the price out on one set, it says £83.90X.

It does look naughty, though, either ripping off an employer who's bought them on expenses, or someone who's bought a load of tickets to get their tax bill down just before the end of the financial year.

 

[Gareth Marston]

You can just make the price out on one set, it says £83.90X.

It does look naughty, though, either ripping off an employer who's bought them on expenses, or someone who's bought a load of tickets to get their tax bill down just before the end of the financial year.

cant see the reverse either mag strip or not?

 

[Tetchytyke]

cant see the reverse either mag strip or not?

You handle a lot more tickets than I do, so I'd bow to your experience here. But they *look* OK, even to the extent that the embossed National Rail branding in the middle of the ticket is there.

They look legit, but the motive for selling them probably isn't legit. But, as you say, without seeing if there's a mag stripe it's hard to tell.

Just another reason why anyone who buys railway tickets off eBay is an idiot who deserves to get scammed.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Yes, it does rather look like a theft-from-employer/expenses fraud issue.

The price on the new format is on the bottom border, you can just about make it out on one set.

Oh, actually, I've just twigged, I know what he is doing with one of them at least if you look at his item list (but not the one linked on the thread)... they are both *return* halves, he's bought a return instead of a single for £1 extra and is selling the return halves on for a profit. That is *definitely* not allowed.

He/shes been careful to hide the bottom bit of the STAR ones I know which machine/location there purchased from but not when.

 

[Merseysider]

My first thought was that someone has stolen a physical card or its details and used them to purchase tickets online, which were immediately collected, or simply bought directly from a machine.

That said, there are easier and less risky ways of laundering money off of someone else's card.

 

[Gareth Marston]

You handle a lot more tickets than I do, so I'd bow to your experience here. But they *look* OK, even to the extent that the embossed National Rail branding in the middle of the ticket is there.

They look legit, but the motive for selling them probably isn't legit. But, as you say, without seeing if there's a mag stripe it's hard to tell.

Just another reason why anyone who buys railway tickets off eBay is an idiot who deserves to get scammed.

I suspect that the seller is maybe gate line/revenue protection staff (Piccadily???) or at least his source is. Some of the tickets look like there "unused" or at least not obliviously marked. There's some mixing and matching of different tickets going on.

Train arrives from Euston - you get a handful of tickets as theirs no barriers at Piccadilly you cherry pick out stuff you think you can sell.........before binning the rest.

 

[northwichcat]

This one looks suspicious to me: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Preston-t...ea20688&pid=100005&rk=5&rkt=6&sd=112365913557

Although it possibly is the case that a member of rail staff feed the ticket stock in upside down and it was running low on toner. Although, I suspect it's been used already but not stamped.

 

[northwichcat]

Train arrives from Euston - you get a handful of tickets as theirs no barriers at Piccadilly you cherry pick out stuff you think you can sell.........before binning the rest.

No at Piccadilly the platforms used by Virgin have ticket barriers. The other ones have manual checks but the RPIs rarely take tickets off passengers - if they are marked to Manchester CTLZ they must not be taken off passengers as they are valid on Metrolink services in the city centre.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This one looks suspicious to me: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Preston-t...ea20688&pid=100005&rk=5&rkt=6&sd=112365913557

Although it possibly is the case that a member of rail staff feed the ticket stock in upside down and it was running low on toner. Although, I suspect it's been used already but not stamped.

I suspect an awful lot of tickets on Ebay are used and not gripped in that way.

 

[blakey1152]

I also notice that one of the tickets is out of date and oddly its the one where he wants £6.00 express postage for - all the others are either 56p or 65p for some reason.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Open-open...223532?hash=item1a294f77ac:g:NWUAAOSw2gxYymdi

Yet there is still 4 days left on it..and 6 available

Very suspicious to me!

 

[Bletchleyite]

6 being available is *very* suspicious.

I couldn't see a "report this to eBay" link, quite surprised.

 

[Gareth Marston]

No at Piccadilly the platforms used by Virgin have ticket barriers. The other ones have manual checks but the RPIs rarely take tickets off passengers - if they are marked to Manchester CTLZ they must not be taken off passengers as they are valid on Metrolink services in the city centre.

I presume the barriers at Piccadilly are emptied into plastic bags by people as elsewhere? There's too many of them for sale for it to be someone whose hit it lucky no stamp and arriving/departing when the barriers are unmanned and kept them - theirs a source involved.

I use to travel to Cardiff regularly on day trips and split my tickets. Newtown to Shrewsbury Anytime Day Return, Shrewsbury to Cwmbran Off Peak Return and Cwmbran to Cardiff Anytime Day Return. i always had a "unmarked" RTN from Cwmbran to Shrewsbury left over as the conductor always marked only my Cradiff to Cwmbran ticket on leaving Cardiff even when I had all 3 RTN portions in my hand.

 

[swt class 450]

I know you're not allowed to re-sell tickets so it would be a void of sale terms anyway... But something about these tickets really doesn't look right?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/London-to-Manchester-train-ticket-return-14th/112365913557

I may have just gone mad but with the quantity available and for other journeys too it doesn't look right?

They even say 'Refundable and exchangeable for a small fee' on them. Surely if they are genuine the seller would make more money back from them by getting a refund?

They look genuine to me. I personally cant see anything that makes them look fake. Those are definitely Parkeon tickets printed from Parkeon Astreo or Parkeon Galexio or Parkeon ToDler machines.

 

[paddington]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/vanityins...om&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

People have bought them.

There is nothing wrong with selling them on ebay apart from breaking the T&Cs of the tickets, AFAIK

 

[Gareth Marston]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/vanityins...om&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

People have bought them.

There is nothing wrong with selling them on ebay apart from breaking the T&Cs of the tickets, AFAIK

There's an AP ticket there with the original purchasers name on it!

 

[Tetchytyke]

There is nothing wrong with selling them on ebay apart from breaking the T&Cs of the tickets, AFAIK

Not sure I agree. It depends on who originally bought them and whether they have been used already- both of which could be fraudulent- never mind it being a breach of the T&Cs.

As for buyers, as tickets cannot be transferred then technically they are not valid. Now the chances of getting caught are variable, but people buying these tickets should really work on the assumption they are valueless. Even if they're unstamped, there's a good chance they've been through a ticket gate, and a guard can tell that instantly.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I presume the barriers at Piccadilly are emptied into plastic bags by people as elsewhere? There's too many of them for sale for it to be someone whose hit it lucky no stamp and arriving/departing when the barriers are unmanned and kept them - theirs a source involved.

Now I've seen the history of the seller, I agree. There's even too many for it to be an employer expenses scam. That's someone who has access to the ticket bin at Piccadilly.

Nice pair of sunglasses too. Wonder where they found them?

 

[AlterEgo]

Anyone know where the NLCs on the tickets correspond to? 1755 is Manchester self service...4780 is Wilmslow self service.

 

[AlterEgo]

Now I've seen the history of the seller, I agree. There's even too many for it to be an employer expenses scam. That's someone who has access to the ticket bin at Piccadilly.

The range of NLCs on the history, plus the varying styles of issue (indicating different points of issue) make me share your suspicion. These are not issued from a single location, they're a little bit random.

 

[AlterEgo]

Two different sets of tickets were issued from Wilmslow SST, but the ticket numbers are a bit off.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/London-to...224348?hash=item1a294f7adc:g:2R8AAOSwAANY54Bb

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mancheste...226044?hash=item1a294f817c:g:9i4AAOSwU8hY54Cl

See how close together the coupon numbers are, issued from the same machine. Conclusion - these two sets of tickets for differing dates were issued at the same time (along with other coupons, as the numbers are not quite sequential!).

I suspect these were booked online. Suspicion turns back towards an expenses fraud.

 

[AlterEgo]

Now I'm really intrigued. Why would an OUT + RTN from the same ticket machine have coupon numbers 89868 and 89870? Where is 89869? OUT + RTN should print sequentially, with any receipt printed at the end.

The eBayer's username is shared with a YouTuber who has amassed over 1.7m views, but all of their videos were blocked and deleted by YouTube on copyright grounds.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Two different sets of tickets were issued from Wilmslow SST, but the ticket numbers are a bit off.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/London-to...224348?hash=item1a294f7adc:g:2R8AAOSwAANY54Bb

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mancheste...226044?hash=item1a294f817c:g:9i4AAOSwU8hY54Cl

See how close together the coupon numbers are, issued from the same machine. Conclusion - these two sets of tickets for differing dates were issued at the same time (along with other coupons, as the numbers are not quite sequential!).

I suspect these were booked online. Suspicion turns back towards an expenses fraud.

Theirs probably a bit of all sorts going on. Having trawled through eBay other sellers of "unused tickets" seem to be one offs "I bought ticket for wrong date" they all seem to be AP tickets. Whereas this person is selling in multiples from different sources/ different types.

"Angie from Plymouth" probably doesn't realize she can refund her unwanted/wrong date ticket minus a £10 admin fee and is selling on eBay because she thinks shes cutting her losses.

The Manchester seller is doing it to make £ pure and simple. Sources will be from emptying barriers, even stolen ones, plus the word will get round he sells unwanted tickets and will buy them off folk.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Now I'm really intrigued. Why would an OUT + RTN from the same ticket machine have coupon numbers 89868 and 89870? Where is 89869? OUT + RTN should print sequentially, with any receipt printed at the end.

The eBayer's username is shared with a YouTuber who has amassed over 1.7m views, but all of their videos were blocked and deleted by YouTube on copyright grounds.

Stolen? Left somewhere and forgot? I see people make a right pigs ear of going through multiple tickets and trying to sort them out and end up jumbling everything up out of sequence. The admin person who bought them has jumbled them up and given them to the individuals traveling. Sarah from accounts then leaves her out of sequence tickets on the bus on the way home....../ has her purse stolen.

 

[WelshBluebird]

There's an AP ticket there with the original purchasers name on it!

To be fair, that doesn't mean anything at all.
The T&C's are about transferring tickets, nothing about who the original purchaser was (i.e. it is perfectly fine to by tickets on behalf of someone else).
Bit silly on the part of the seller though as it makes it easy to trace them!

 

[gray1404]

My advise would be not to buy any of these tickets. I am sure the TOCs/BTP are onto it already.