Are railway enthusiasts being exploited?

[Broken Viking]

Hail all!
I've started to wonder if railway enthusiasts like ourselves might be being subject to exploitation by companies and service providers aiming to cash-in on our furtherance of the hobby?

To emphesise my point, I'll quote the paragraphs from the FoGCR's January newsletter (Also attached as a scan) that started me wondering about this possibility, with key terms and phrases highlighted in Bold for clarity:

STORM WARNING!
Celebrity Steam engine Tornado is on its way back to the Great Central for Easter

The Great Central Railway is delighted to confirm a return visit by Britain's brand new steam locomotive, Peppercorn class A1 pacific No. 60163 Tornado. The locomotive will arrive in Leicestershire towards the end of March 2010 for a 3 week stay, from m including an appearance at a major gala event over the weekend 26th-28th March 2010.
The railway has teamed up with the A1 Steam Locomotive Trust who built the locomotive to offer a handful of chances to drive it over the eight miles between Loughborough and Leicester North.

Tornado first steamed in 2008 at the culmination of an 18 year dream to build a brand new Peppercorn class A1 pacific from scratch. She visited the Great Central Railway in late 2008 for running in trials attracting record crowds. Since then she has featured on television, hauled the Royal Train on the national network and appeared at many heritage railways.

Now your chance to be part of this locomotive's story: While Tornado is at the GCR there will be 24 footplate passes for sale. For £150 you can enjoy an eight mile ride between Loughborough and Leicester or vice versa. The price includes a full day travel ticket and a griddle meal.¹

Perhaps though the ultimate would be the chance to drive this incredible machine. Take the regulator for 2 return trips between Loughborough and Leicester, then drive another GCR locomotive for a further 2 trips and pass Tornado on the double track coming the other way.Tour the railway, bring your family and spend the whole day with us for one of the most exclusive experiences we've ever offered. Book your place in the Tornado story for just £2250.²

Call GCR events co-ordinator Steven Chapple on 07*** ****** or Steve Saunders in the booking office on 01509 230726.

¹ - For clarification, a Footplate Pass in this context is a ticket to travel on Tornados footplate for a single eight-mile journey. No actual driving, fire-work or other operational duty is involved.
² - This is the option that actually includes the chance to drive Tornado...But did ye see the price right there?

Now by way of comparison, I'll grab a few prices for other such "Once in a lifetime" experiences from the web:
Price key: Virgin Experience Days, Red Letter Days

• Balloon flight (Per head): £185.00 £199.00
• Formula One racing: £175.00 £199.00
• Aerobatic stunt flight: £159.00 £125.00

Comparing the two classes of price between the Virgin/RLD offerings above and the GCR Tornado driving offer at top - And bearing in mind that a typical steam driving experience on most heritage railways normally comes in around the £130.00 mark for two hours or more (Guess based on old enquiries for driving days on the MHR) - I can't help but think the cost of driving Tornado to be disapportionateley high. Also, the footplate experiences (Each lasting maybe 10-15 minutes?) each cost more than a three hour balloon flight or two hours driving an F-1 car! hock::roll:

The point that I'm trying to make here is that the cost of railway related experiences (Railtours, train driving opportunities, excursions etc.) does seem to be quite a degree higher than the cost of similar services relating to other industries, and the recent discussion from This post onwards seems to extend a similar sentiment...And I wonder if certain organisations might be exploiting a lot of enthusiasts in relation to an activity that most can't reasonably bring about by their own hands?

So I'm curious: Are we - As railway enthusiasts - Being chinged excessively (And possibly even subject to exploitation) for the pleasure of pursuing our hobby further, or does a similar thing apply to other industries (Aviation, motorsport etc) which have a large and strong community of enthusiasts?

And whilst I'm on the subject of railway experiences: Why on earth havn't VWC and Virgin Experiences teamed up to offer the chance to drive Pendos and Voyagers? If I could couple-up two such experience days as an open "return" to Glasgow, I could craft one of the most memorable Scottish holidays of my life - And VWC would get a couple of "120 minute Pendo" runs between Euston and Glasgow into the bargain!

 

[thefab444]

I suspect that could be a typo, £225 or £250 sounds far more reasonable.

 

[Tomnick]

No typo; the price in the quoted information is correct! I'm not sure it's exploitation as much as typical supply and demand - if there's sufficient demand for people to be willing to pay such high prices for a product that's in limited supply, then clearly the GCR would be daft to offer them for less. I believe that the price has since been reduced slightly - economics in action?

Remember also that the GCR, whilst operating as a plc, is a preservation organisation run largely by volunteers. I wonder how many takers of the Tornado DATEX will be enthusiasts, and how many will be those with a slightly lesser interest but a lot of money, or even corporate folks? I'd be delighted to go for a balloon flight, but I certainly wouldn't class myself as a hot-air balloon enthusiast!

The 'standard' footplate experience packages are still available at the GCR, at much more reasonable prices (still a substantial sum though!) - the Bronze package being comparable in price to the F1 day, I'd have thought - same rules apply; if people are willing to pay for it...

 

[AlexS]

You pay what you think is worth it for something don't ya.

If someone pays those prices and are happy with what they get, then they're on to a winner.

There certainly aren't many opportunities about to drive Tornado and it's had a lot of media attention.

Although I've always considered it as you can get most of the preserved railway stuff for free just by being a regular volunteer *shrug*.

Costs are pretty high as well, coal weighs in at over a hundred quid a ton.

Another thing to remember I suppose is the GCR unlike many commercial ventures is run by enthusiasts, by and large, and thus operates in a slightly different way to commercial operators who might block book something.

We don't put on a free show because we can't afford to. In return for your payment to us, we'll try our level best to give you what you've paid for (and more if we can manage it!). I assure you that a day trotting up and down a double track railway is quite an experience and we generally have extremely good feedback from it.

I would be surprised if all the money from the Tornado sales went to the GCR as well, I imagine a fair quantity (if not half or more) would be going to the A1 Trust, although that is just a guess on my part, and they have several million pounds of loans and such to pay back that they used to build the loco!

Railtours are also pretty expensive to run.

 

[poshbakerloo]

I prefer travelling on trains in normal service, rather than a 'fake' service...far more realistic for me to enjoy...

 

[Tom B]

If you think it's too expensive, don't buy it! As Tomnick says my immediate thought was that it'd be something that corporate sponsors etc might enjoy - and the money's all going to a good cause, isn't it?

Of course, the free way of getting such an experience is to volunteer on a local preserved line .

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I suspect that could be a typo, £225 or £250 sounds far more reasonable.

Just what I thought when I first saw it!

But I suspect it'll still be full with passengers.

 

[Tomnick]

The aim is not to fill the train with passengers paying £2250 each (that would be a bit steep!), but rather to put one person 'up front' driving a return trip.

 

[ukrob]

It is just supply and demand, there is no exploitation.

 

[Geezertronic]

I wonder how much Clarkson (or the BBC) paid

 

[Daimler]

I think it's very unfair to cry 'exploitation'. As various people have said, it's simply what people are prepared to pay that determines how much is charged. And as others have also said, the money's all going to a good cause anyway!

 

[43021HST]

Another thing regarding exploitation, dont you think mdel railway stuff costs too much! For example a colour light signal from hornby that is a piece of plastic with LEDs in it and it doesnt look realistic is £19.70 per signal. Imagine having to buy like 5 or 6 of them. Its Shocking!

 

[Metroland]

Limited niche market, where the supplier has to compete for skilled staff in the wider market, and there may not be such large economies of scale.

Actually, the railway hobby is full of people doing things for well under the going rate or free. Preserved railways, books, models, computer games, are all often produced at less than the going rate or free in the interests of meeting new people, learning new skills, or altruistic reasons such as keeping something alive that isn't commercially viable, or providing something for others to enjoy.

Unfortunately, unless laws are passed where everyone has to work for free or governments sets all prices and production (then how would you efficiently balance skills, resources, demand and supply bearing in mind there are limited sets of skills, certain resources, products and services and how much people are prepared to work for, given we all need food, shelter, goods and services) there are always some costs involved.

The fine chaps that put Tornado together put her together with oodles of their time given away for the love of a project many would say would never happen. But there were costs involved in raw materials and supply of certain goods as well as loans to secure the cost of materials.

Here is a case in point where some people are prepared to pay £2000 plus to drive her, she's quite an icon. It's all going to a good cause in the end, yours and my hobby and passions, it's certainly not explotation it's simple demand and supply.

 

[yorkie]

I prefer travelling on trains in normal service, rather than a 'fake' service...far more realistic for me to enjoy...

fake? not really. and certainly better than plastic!

 

[theblackwatch]

You pay what you think is worth it for something don't ya.

If someone pays those prices and are happy with what they get, then they're on to a winner.

There certainly aren't many opportunities about to drive Tornado and it's had a lot of media attention.

Although I've always considered it as you can get most of the preserved railway stuff for free just by being a regular volunteer *shrug*.

Costs are pretty high as well, coal weighs in at over a hundred quid a ton.

Another thing to remember I suppose is the GCR unlike many commercial ventures is run by enthusiasts, by and large, and thus operates in a slightly different way to commercial operators who might block book something.

We don't put on a free show because we can't afford to. In return for your payment to us, we'll try our level best to give you what you've paid for (and more if we can manage it!). I assure you that a day trotting up and down a double track railway is quite an experience and we generally have extremely good feedback from it.

I would be surprised if all the money from the Tornado sales went to the GCR as well, I imagine a fair quantity (if not half or more) would be going to the A1 Trust, although that is just a guess on my part, and they have several million pounds of loans and such to pay back that they used to build the loco!

Railtours are also pretty expensive to run.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this - Tornado has cost a fortune to build and they have a lot of loans to pay back. They have an excellent marketing machine and the general public (ie non enthusiasts) have been taken by this loco so I would expect such couses to be taken by well off 'non cranks'. If the courses fill, then they have charged the right price, only time will tell, but I hope they are a success for both the sake of the GCR and the A1SLT.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Completely agree, Metroland and theblackwatch.
There's nothing exploitative about this offer at all - its a perfectly free-market opportunity for the A1Trust to recoup some of their (very significant) investment and, for those who can afford it, to pay for an experience that they would like to have.
I fail to see who could possibly be exploited by whom here.

BTW. In addition to the massive investment in developing Tornado, it also incurrs a very significant cost-of-ownership, no least of which was the extensive examination and maintenance period in the NRM workshops over a few weeks this winter. Quite labour intensive (as well as parts and materials); and that wouldn't have come cheap.

In fact I fail to see the comparisons with a baloon at all (the most expensive of Death's comparators).
Phone pic of Tornado and Flying Scotsman in NRM workshop last month :