Are Network Rail really this poor?

[nuneatonmark]

I've been travelling up and down the West Coast Mainline quite a bit recently and at least 50% of my journeys have been significantly impacted by infrastructure issues incl points failures and signal failures. Given the regular maintenance closures, should I surprised at just how poor and unreliable the infrastructure is? Are Network Rail just a little ****e?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Yes

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I've been travelling up and down the West Coast Mainline quite a bit recently and at least 50% of my journeys have been significantly impacted by infrastructure issues incl points failures and signal failures. Given the regular maintenance closures, should I surprised at just how poor and unreliable the infrastructure is? Are Network Rail just a little ****e?

Google "network rail modernising maintenance" and you'll have your answer.

 

[lordbusiness]

If the recent number of NR related incidents on Anglia is anything to go by..........yes

 

[Horizon22]

Short answer, yes.

Budget has been refocussed on just trying to keep things as they are, not enhancements. Given various factors including assets age, climate change, intensity of use, then things will not improve.

Next question?

 

[Carlisle]

I’d say major infrastructure failures on the WCML are pretty rare, some other routes not so much maybe.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I’d say major infrastructure failures on the WCML are pretty rare, some other routes not so much maybe.

Depends on what constitutes major. There is quite often at least 1 failure per week where the delays are in the thousands of minutes

 

[boiledbeans2]

I attended a talk by Network Rail earlier this year. It was titled "Spending Money Wisely to Deliver a Reliable Railway".

The speaker seemed quite proud that Network Rail had achieved the optimum point between ensuring low failures and spending money. I don't remember the exact technical terms used, but beyond that optimal point, a lot more money has to be spent for a smaller reduction in failures.

The speaker also showed statistics which showed that the failures were actually reducing year-on-year (I don't think anyone in the audience believed it!)

 

[The Sorcerer]

Network Rail is a basket case. They need to stop concentrating on putting up fencing and start maintaing the infrastructure.

 

[alxndr]

Network Rail is a basket case. They need to stop concentrating on putting up fencing and start maintaing the infrastructure.

Fences aren’t going to impact point failure numbers, but they might reduce trespass incidents.

 

[Russel]

I’d say major infrastructure failures on the WCML are pretty rare, some other routes not so much maybe.

I'd disagree here, not many weeks go by where services out of Euston don't totally collapse.

 

[Carlisle]

I'd disagree here, not many weeks go by where services out of Euston don't totally collapse.

Many have been due to train failures (mainly freight) trespass etc, rather than major infrastructure failures.

 

[class ep-09]

Fences aren’t going to impact point failure numbers, but they might reduce trespass incidents.

Which happen regardless …

Besides - I know it is legal requirement and quite strange one, to have fencing / physical barier everywhere on the network.
If we compare UK and other countries that are not bothered about trespasses , except high speed lines , perhaps if UK adopted similar approach there would be less delays due to such incidents.
.
I know someone will say “ what if they die or get injured while tress passing?” .

Everybody Knows the railways are dangerous to wonder around , secondly if someone wants to leave this world by being killed by train , they will do it anyway.

.

 

[sh24]

As regular passengers on the GWML will know, there are certainly some challenges to be addressed

 

[bluenoxid]

Landowners and building operators have responsibilities to everyone including trespassers under the health and safety at work act. Part of that reasonably includes fencing off dangerous areas. It would also fly in the face of declaring rail trespass a criminal matter rather than civil.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Fencing also helps with livestock which will all know can cause huge disruption.

Failures on NR are decreasing from what I remember, but the impact of failures is increasing. So it seems worse.

As an addition, recently there has been a huge increase in concern for welfare... Which are hugely disruptive as Leeds found out last week.

 

[AlexNL]

Everybody Knows the railways are dangerous to wonder around

You're overestimating the intelligence of the general public. A lot of people who trespass aren't aware of the risks.

In the Netherlands "spoorlopers" cause up to 4.5 hours of delay minutes every day. By walking along the railway as "a quicker way to get from A to B" because the normal road design is suboptimal for their route. Or they're walking their dog and to them the cess looks like any other walking path. Or just kids playing where they shouldn't.

 

[Carlisle]

Failures on NR are decreasing from what I remember, but the impact of failures is increasing. So it seems worse.

Indeed I think the above sentence sums up the current situation extremely accurately.

 

[Falcon1200]

They need to stop concentrating on putting up fencing and start maintaing the infrastructure.

Fences aren’t going to impact point failure numbers, but they might reduce trespass incidents.

Yes indeed; My last train from Glasgow to London terminated at Preston; A trespass incident (much) further south had prevented the relief Driver from reaching Preston (a type of incident which forms part of Network Rail's performance statistics despite often being unpreventable).

I travel regularly, once a month at least, on the WCML, between Glasgow Central and Euston or Birmingham, and have certainly had my fair share of delays. Sometimes due to infrastructure failures, however in the last five years the most disruptive incidents were freight train failures (the same freight train, twice, costing 240 and 100 minutes!) and flooding.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Modernising maintenance. 'Nuff said.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2024 ==

Failures on NR are decreasing from what I remember, but the impact of failures is increasing. So it seems worse.

Definition of 'failure' has changed

 

[Tractor2018]

Modernising maintenance. 'Nuff said.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2024 ==


Definition of 'failure' has changed

This

"Modernise". And move the goalposts to show how effective it is. Real outcome - well, everyone can see it.

 

[Russel]

Many have been due to train failures (mainly freight) trespass etc, rather than major infrastructure failures.

I'm not so sure about that...

Today we have a loss of signalling at Colwich and OLE problems at Tile Hill, last Wednesday it was signalling issues around Watford...

 

[Llanigraham]

Which happen regardless …

Besides - I know it is legal requirement and quite strange one, to have fencing / physical barier everywhere on the network.
If we compare UK and other countries that are not bothered about trespasses , except high speed lines , perhaps if UK adopted similar approach there would be less delays due to such incidents.
.
I know someone will say “ what if they die or get injured while tress passing?” .

Everybody Knows the railways are dangerous to wonder around , secondly if someone wants to leave this world by being killed by train , they will do it anyway.

.

Oh that it was that simple!
What many here don't realise is that in nearly every case the original, enabling Act states that the railway line has to be "enclosed", so to do away with lineside fencing would require each and every Act to be changed, or an over-riding Act would need to be passed rescinding those paragraphs in all those Acts.
And quite frankly the government (of any hue) doesn't have the time or money to do that.

 

[tom1649]

They can't be as poor as Railtrack were.

 

[NSEWonderer]

The WCML is relatively reliable in comparison to the GWML from my experience, then again it does highlight that NR aren't really repairing things as quickly as they should on both mainlines.

 

[Omnishambles]

The WCML is relatively reliable in comparison to the GWML from my experience, then again it does highlight that NR aren't really repairing things as quickly as they should on both mainlines.

I would tend to agree but with a slight change in wording, WCML=not so good on days and in areas more than others, GWML=worse by comparison… The key thing, and goes for all routes, is regardless of responsibility it is the (mis)management of the service around any failure that has got worse steadily worse over the years with delay per incident never grappled. Service Recovery is certainly 2 words that are said together but not carried out from what I can see nowadays

 

[NSEWonderer]

I would tend to agree but with a slight change in wording, WCML=not so good on days and in areas more than others, GWML=worse by comparison… The key thing, and goes for all routes, is regardless of responsibility it is the (mis)management of the service around any failure that has got worse steadily worse over the years with delay per incident never grappled. Service Recovery is certainly 2 words that are said together but not carried out from what I can see nowadays

Agreed, which is why I don't disagree with those against NR's so called "Modernising maintenance" plan.

 

[Irascible]

I get the idea NR are something of a dumping ground for railway debt? I'm a little surprised they manage to get anything done at all honestly. I've ranted enough about fragmentation already though.

 

[AndrewE]

Yes indeed; My last train from Glasgow to London terminated at Preston; A trespass incident (much) further south had prevented the relief Driver from reaching Preston (a type of incident which forms part of Network Rail's performance statistics despite often being unpreventable).

which perfectly illustrates why the "lean and mean" railway is not fit for purpose. Integrated railways understand this and have enough spare staff at key relief points like Preston for an extra crew to be inserted to keep the network running, not cancelling trains just because "the crew haven't arrived off their inward working."
Not necessarily anything to do with NR, but if you want a reliable railway you have to fund the infrastructure and make sure tha the operation is robust.

 

[meld3]

I agree with the original poster - Yesterday was a clusterfk day with many cancelled trains Eus-Bham due to overhead line issues near Coventry, and many delayed trains due to signal issues near Crewe. Both are down to NR ?